Dtg Are We Waiting For Tsw5

It did. They weren't engine updates, but it did add journey mode, mastery, route introductions (heaven forbid), among others.

They still need to pay money to Valve, and to Sundog for SilverLining.

 

I'd be quite happy if TSW5 were based upon UE5. After all, existing content would still be there to play on TSW4, and we would finally be rid of gen 8 builds. DTG would be able to enable features like Nanite and Lumen for appropriately powerful PCs to get a genuine next-gen experience. Pop-in would be virtually gone (traversal stutter is another story though).

 

Those company’s don’t take 30% like MS or Sony do though.
I think I read it’s something like 12% on PC. I could be mistaken though on that exact figure.

 

Thats somewhat absurd... Talking about TSW5 at that early time.

 

They would not. They are still not properly utilizing UE4 either, even though they have been using it since 2017.

It took them years and the help of a community modder to make a skybox that doesn't look like something out of a 90s cartoon. Then another year or two to make proper 3D volumetric clouds, which is a pretty standard thing in Unreal Engine. It took them 4 iterations to enable volumetric fog, something which is pretty much just a checkbox in UE? They kept tweaking the lighting system through each release, yet it's still questionable. After all these years, the game is still full of optimalization issues (both in the simulation and in the 3D assets), graphical errors, etc. They can't even be bothered to use light baking properly, or set up light sources correctly.

So what makes you think they could use technologies like Nanita or Lumen? Of course, I would be glad to see them in the future. But not yet, as they aren't even utilizing what they currently have properly. Of course, I am happy to see the progress they have made so far in various fields, but there are still many things they could improve on. They need to take more time and care with creating assets and routes, to make sure their assets are optimized properly, lighting is set up correctly, etc.

 

It's not a simple checkbox. Lots of these things that seem standard in unreal required dtg to put in a lot of effort because it didn't work right out of the box.

 

It pretty much is a simple checkbox. If you have seen the Unreal guides on how to set it up, it doesn't take much effort from DTG or any studio to implement

 

Something desperately needs to change at DTG Towers. I haven’t played TSW for weeks as I find the “keep churning out low quality, unfinished, buggy products to keep the cash flowing, but keep our ears firmly covered when it comes to players’ genuine gripes mentality” totally demotivating. I now regret the DLCs I picked up in the sales and will put it down to a lesson learned and move on. I find TSC too archaic these days so will stick with MSFS and other titles I got in the Steam sales.

Having finished the Cyberpunk 2077 main campaign months back I am having a ball mopping up the many side missions with the latest 2.1 update (the Phantom Liberty DLC also awaits). Now there’s a company (CDPR) which, despite a train wreck of an initial release, has continued updating and improving the game to a point where it’s now one of the best I’ve ever played.

 

Unfortunately I have to agree with that.

After spending many, many hours in TSW3 and 4 (~436h), I have been very demotivated towards TSW since the last DLC (Maintalbahn), the empty promises and the silence that has been going on for weeks.

I'm also currently playing Cyberpunk and am enjoying a game that obviously got enough love after a bad start.

TSW just doesn't get enough love, which is a shame because it could be such a good game.

 

Matt had talked about how it is not in fact so simple.

There's a big difference between having a box to check, and the full process of implementation. I guess you can think of the checkbox as being the start of the process, telling UE that you'd like the fog to become an option, rather than the whole process.

Like I've said before, it's a very small step from "Why isn't DTG doing X, because it seems so simple?" to "If DTG isn't doing it, maybe it's not as simple as it seems." It'd be nice if more people would take that step.

 

Valve does take 30%...

 

I've seen the tutorials. It's not a complicated process to implement in any game despite you trying to suggest otherwise

 

Just because the tutorials say it's a simple tickbox, it isn't. Maybe in an ideal situation and you're only using unreal engine for fun. Once you've heavily modified it and went through many changes, it makes it more complicated. It's not something they can complete in a single working day. If Matt, who is a developer said it broke a lot of things and it's not easy, then saying you can just tick a box and call it a day isn't correct.

 

And yet TSC gets free updates and TSW doesn’t.
TSC dead/Not as popular. TSW is where DTG loyalties lay and where profit is to be made.

 

Honestly, I don't know why you are trying to make it sound complicated when it isn't complicated to implement. As to why this feature broke many things, I can't answer that. Developers have adding this feature in games without problems. DTG have a habit of updating things that break something else so that honestly doesn't surprise me.

If you are gonna keep trying to say that it is challenging, then don't bother since it will just drag this conversation around in circles.

 

TSC is far from dead. I spent more in the Xmas Steam sale on content for TSC than TSW. Steam traction in particular is far superior to the dumbed down, arcadey and plain wacky experience offered in TSW.

 

Absolutely agree, so much traction and routes. And old gems like the fantastic GEML are a pure joy using the AP weather and vegetation update. That veg update made it a new route for me. I'm off now running my Class 90 down the line

And I can drive in South Africa, China, Brasil, China, Japan, New Zealand, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Czechia and the freeware scene is highly professional offering fantastic routes.

 

The point was that the reason TSW4 was a paid update was not because of licensing. As for Train Simulator being 'dead'...

• Consistently more players on PC
• A significantly larger group of third party developers, and an enormous freeware library
• Almost universally better physics for Steam locomotives
• General physics meeting and often exceeding TSW standards
• Scenery density and quality meeting and often exceeding TSW standards

On a similar note, you may also want to take a look at the South Eastern Network route being developed for the Steam Workshop, which once complete will be larger than any route ever created for Train Sim World, covering the entire Southeastern metro network and beyond. I don't know why the person developing it alone would want to make it for a dead game...

 

I agree with all your points except for scenery, which, apart from a relatively small number of routes, I find often sparse and very dated in TSC.

It’s nice that someone is doing the entire SE network, but it will require scenarios to use, and a multitude of content to source and download (and probably payware stock to purchase). Basically all the usual limitations of TSC. At least with TSW you get a 24 hour timetable + journeys, and the stock is not hard to find.

 

Yeah, that's fine... until you try it with a heavily customized version of UE, which is what TSW is.

 

Of course if you're looking at old RailSimulator routes like GWML or ECML, being the very first routes built with the then new software. From 2013 on, TSC routes got better and better, already peaking in 2014 with GEML among others.

Quick comparison between LGV on TSW and TSC, same location... and the loco model and cab is almost exactly the same.

 

Not if it's on Steam Workshop. Well you will need to own any component routes contributing to the assets, but Workshop does not permit the inclusion of any third party assets from external sources - not even your own. That includes items like custom station nameboards or even your location marker file.

I'm currently looking at overhauling and maybe extending the short section of the Far North line I originally created back in RS. Will be for Workshop so no station signs, but replacing the track with a better looking one, likewise bridges. My ancient station buildings ripped from my MSTS route being replaced with ones from the Port Road (not figured out what I'm doing about Wick and Thurso overall roofs yet) etc. If I get suitably motivated going to look at extending south towards Forsinard, maybe Helmsdale or even Brora. Which I should have done a long time ago. Consider myself inspired by the likes of the Wycombe Line freeware and routes like South Western Expressway, or Bristol to Swansea.

 

I am guessing that making a huge scenario in TSC that is basically a multi-hour timetable has been attempted and doesn't work? Is there anyway at all of trying to mimic a timetable mode in TSC? Right now its the final barrier to TSC being all-round a better proposition.

 

Hmmm... they could have done the whole Berninalinie if they put off the date for release by three months. And just because DTG has a big team does not mean the DLC is better. We all saw JustTrains Blackpool Branches, compare that to Maintalbahn or whatever that s*t is and you will see how little effort DTG puts into it's DLC. Like I said: Bigger team DOES NOT EQUAL better DLC.

 

I wouldn’t call TSW a dumbed down version. It does exactly what TSC does. The only thing TSC does better than TSW is route lengths and more countries to drive in.
I still prefer TSW though, as I played TSC a couple of years ago and I hated how washed out the colours were. The graphics fidelity was like playing on a very old Windows XP system.
When you play games like Spider Man 2, Alan Wake 2 and Star Wars: Jedi Survivor all year round and notice how high they set the bar, it’s difficult to adjust to low standards on a graphics stand point. Retro gaming I can make an exception for.

 

Saying those are the only things TSC does better than TSW is just not true though.

 

What does it do better in your opinion?

The workshop/mods is the only thing else I can think of.
That’s pretty cool that the community can share their created routes. That’s a feature in TSW will soon be more recognisable, once more players get more acquainted with the UE.

I forgot to add how poorly TSC runs compared to TSW. It’s beyond bad. If the game looked half as good as TSW, then it’s something I could excuse. Bad graphics and bad performance just make it more of a chore to enjoy it if anything. It feels like I’m playing a game on 10 year old hardware. Which is why I’ll enjoy TSW more than TSC imo.

 

Both games do things better and worse than the other game yes. TSC is 16 or so years old at this point so it will have some issues like that but its also what makes the game so great in terms of content. I do think the overall experience of TSW is better, its generally an easier experience although with that comes less freedoms. And I guess mods are never going to be great for TSW as long as DTG keeps making new games of the same game for no real reason at all, every time breaking a lot of mods??.

 

I know other games where updates break mods. Even a good developer like scs software who made ata comes to mind where every major update caused an engine sound mod to not work properly and it took the modder a few weeks to update it each time. Other mods I used also didn't work with each update. It's not the developers job to support mods and guarantee they work every time. Sure some games support it better than others, but if any issues occur, it's on the modder to fix it

 

ETS2 mods are often very sloppily put together, some deliver copies of original material files instead of just referencing them, some overwrite already used defs or don't stick to naming conventions... this is purely the modders fault.

TSW4's issue is different because it is blocking certain files from being modded.

 

He was talking about steam traction, which is dumbed down in TSW.

As for the rest of your questions, you appear to have clearly ignored what I wrote before about Train Simulator. That statements about features, graphics and performance that you make are false and/or hyperbole and/or uninformed.

I got a notification that you'd quoted me in your post although you appear to have edited out, so I can't comment on what you said there.

 

• Consistently more players on PC
• A significantly larger group of third party developers, and an enormous freeware library
• Almost universally better physics for Steam locomotives
• General physics meeting and often exceeding TSW standards
• Scenery density and quality meeting and often exceeding TSW standards.
  Right, yes I missed that part of the guys message. Steam doesn’t really interest me much, so I can’t comment on that. Even though I own all the dlc, it’s not my go to content when playing TSW. I haven’t done my research or care to, as I’m not a train enthusiast and never claimed to be, I’m just a train enjoyer and of this game. That’s where I draw the line.
  All your points are valid and true, apart from scenery quality. TSW beats TSC by a mile. Graphic fidelity is naff on TSC, which I already mentioned. It really kills the experience for me. TSC can have all the above boxes ticked, but if the game runs and looks like LOVE then I’m not interested. How I feel about TSC I’ve already said in a previous comment, so I won’t repeat myself.

 

You already did repeat yourself. I commented but didn't elaborate on the points you made though, so I shall do that now.

• Scenery quality and density is inconsistent in both games. However, the reason I included it as a plus for TSC is that generally distant scenery is better across the board, and there are certain routes in Train Sim World (such as Marseille to Avignon as described above, as well as London to Faversham, Arosa Linie and LIRR among others) which have significantly worse medium-distance scenery. Marseille to Avignon really is two sides of the same coin - in TS, it has among the best scenery that game has to offer, but in TSW it is just embarrassing.
  Inevitably there will be routes in TS that look better in TSW. Obviously you can throw the Kuju/RS routes into that (although whether it's a fair comparison or not is debatable, as there was at least a decade's time difference between the routes in Rail Simulator and their TSW equivalents Although I must admit that the TS version of Cajon Pass has held up shockingly well compared to the other Rail Simulator routes, but that's besides the point) although there are some more modern and appropriate examples such as Sherman Hill. When it comes to close-distance scenery TSW is almost universally better except for some notable exceptions, but the immediate surroundings of the player only count for a small portion of what they can actually see, which is why medium-distance scenery and the stuff far away is so important as well. It is entirely possible to make a TS route with considerably better scenery than the TSW standard, but because of the work involved it is rarely done. Of course as TSW diversifies with more developers, it will be interesting to see the point at which scenery vs performance is balanced. I develop routes for Train Simulator which have excellent close-distance scenery and decent scenery further away, but sometimes TS can chug a little with the close distance scenery. Less so with the distant scenery though. This leads me into my next point...
• You must always check your settings and the content you are playing with when it comes to performance in TS. For me, TS runs consistently 20fps higher than TSW, both of which are running at ultra settings. However, on certain routes like my own and the LIRR in TS, performance can suffer for a variety of reasons. For example:
  • The LIRR in TS uses plenty of shadow-casting lights which cause performance to suffer.
  • In addition to the problems explained above with my route, there is a section where there are a number of scenery lofts that cause a drop in FPS, likely down to the amount of billboarded textures being displayed at once (for context, these are wheat field lofts included in the UKTrainSim vegetation pack.
  • Certain trains can cause issues. The M7 included in LIRR is one of the worst offenders. The Caledonia Works King and A3 classes are brilliant trains, but like to eat up a lot of resources.
  • It is also worth noting that the enhancement packs that make TS look great, with a lovely approachable warm colour scheme and soft edges, have little to no impact on performance. For the many people who consistently play TS they are essential purchases that make a decent-looking game look brilliant.

While you may not be interested in steam, the simple truth is still that TSW cannot provide a realistic steam simulation at present and DTG seem uninterested in making it happen. It is shocking to say that the two steam locomotives developed for Rail Simulator have numerous features that TSW steam locos don't have. Certainly not in the visual or audio departments, but it is still unacceptable for locomotives developed in 2006/2007 are comparable to ones being released today.

I have spoken before about the PC community seemingly being unconvinced by TSW, and from my point of view all that PC players are truly missing out on are cubemap reflections and the timetable mode. I'm not bothered by either, although there are plenty of people who do see lots of appeal in timetable mode. I don't know why, but fair enough. That point can go to TSW.

 

Interesting discussion.

Let's not forget, what you see has the same source in both games. 3DStudioMax or Blender. TS has no restrictions (there are some vertex limit recommendations though in the dev docs for locos and wagons), and has - in many routes - more complex scenery assets. And more varied buildings, billboards, etc. There's also grass in TSC that's moving in the wind.

There's routes like Taurus Mountains or New Zealand Midland Line that come with +10GB of assets.

So how complex the route, assets and scenery are is only depending on how much work the dev is willing to put into it. I've mentioned 3rd party routes that took years to develop that outright smash TSW into pieces. Look at Köblitz, Brennitzer Linienstern, Konstanz-Villingen-Hausach, etc.

If you drive Vorarlberg on a clear winter's day and look at distant mountains that are in the shadow, its trees appear brightly lit and look horrible, and like paper trees. That's a big issue in TSW, because whenever you are using 3D assets in the distance, you must be aware that they are not in the range of shadow calculations (which still has to have a limited range as it needs huge amounts of processing power) - so in many cases it's better to use distant 2D trees with shadows baked into their textures.

Also rolling stock interior could make use of more baked ambient occlusion maps. (Soft shadows under seats for example, adding more depth.)

 

I prefer tsw for many reasons. I like timetable mode because there are lots to do. It might seem boring to do the same thing over and over again, but at least there's a lot of it. Tsc only has a couple scenarios which get boring quickly. You finish them all, you have nothing else to do unless you buy more dlc or download scenarios which may or may not work or have a ton of other requirements. I tried making scenarios myself, but it became time consuming and frustrating. If I am paying $40 for each dlc, it goes to tsw because there is more replayability. Tsw for me gives me more stable performance and looks modern while tsc varies wildly with performance. Tsw is much more beginner friendly and you can play it casually. Tsc content I have bought tend to have worse physics and sound. I could never get into route building or manual steam simulation. Tsc is much more hardcore which I'm not a fan of since you have to know exactly what the signals are telling you and safety systems are on by default in many trains.

Tsc and tsw both have pros and cons, but my money goes towards the game that has better value.

 

You forgot QuickDrive. Play any service at any time using any stock and custom formation, always different due to random AI. Comes very close to a timetable. Most underrated TSC feature (and a QD template is the most difficult scenario to create. Kim Olesen's RealDrives also feature random adverse signals in QD.)

For me, the supplied scenarios are just a teaser, giving me an idea what to do with the route. The scenario editor is super simple to use, and workshop is where the real great scenarios are. Just two names, Not.Silent and Coasty. Real action as opposed to the "dead" TSW world.

 

Quick drive would be better if it wasn't just get to this destination. I would like to select where to stop at or select preset stops so I'm not just doing a full length run with no stops. The editor allows you to set the stops, platform and follow a wtt but sometimes it doesn't register where I click so it becomes tedious

 

Yeah, but you can just stop and pretend you have a timetable, don't need the game to check that for me Passenger pickups still work in QD. If you're playing without HUD, you won't notice a difference anyway, instructions or not. It's just you and the train, and no game that's surveilling you. As in RL.

 

Train Sim world 3 was very disappointing & sadly to say i see very little improvement in 4 . The ECML is very comprised they already stated that rhey have no plans to put the King x Cross part in which is a great shame FOR ps5 users & XBOX series X/J users.
But yes come September 2024 I have every reason to believe we will see TWS5 or maybe they will re-name TWS 2025 ?
We will see later this year?

 

When it comes to the developing time frame, the King’s Cross section to let’s say Peterborough on ECML, would require too much work and effort for DTG to make. They want to make routes and get them out the door quick. Now… if Just Trains were to take the helm on that project, i guarantee it would come to fruition. They’d easily dedicate 9-12 months on the project.

 

YOU got that spot on its just one feeble excuse after another with DTG WE HAVE NO PLANS WE ARE LOOKING INTO IT WE ARE WORKING ON IT TWS4 same game same name same bugs we have no plans to improve it

 

You might want to look up what Maik Goetz has posted on that kind of time investment vs making a living at it.

 

As soon as I read the title of the thread I was like "oh for f sake, not this again!" Lol

 

At this point we should start a GoFundMe and raise money for JustTrains to get better equipment and hire more developers.

 

You know something that wouldn’t be a bad idea. They deliver when it comes to quality routes, and we need more like the Blackpool route in the game.
If they started a go fund page for the resources you mentioned, i’d happily donate.

 

Interestingly TSW3 (and I suspect it's still the same in TSW4) broke ambient occlusion. In the first two games Engine.ini tweaks could enable it. Other than some parts that would look too dark, it generally worked very nicely. However, now it completely breaks the lighting.

 

I've readed PS4 servers will be close next year, if TSW5 comes out, will be only on PS5? And PS4 users as me have to buy PS5 to play it?

 

First off, we don't really know for sure if TSW 5 is going to be a thing. Second of all, I couldn't find any information about Sony killing and burying the PS4 in general, I could only find infos about some games killing some online servers, but that's it. Third of all, if TSW 5 is going to be a thing, then it's safe to assume that development depends on the overall remaining lifetime of last-gen consoles. So I'd say, probably not.

 

Oh, Train Sim World 5 will be a thing, as well as TSW 6, TSW 7, TSW 8.

 

They should be monthly releases to maximize profit