Dtg's "policy" On Only Modern Content

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by theorganist, Jan 26, 2023.

  1. Interesting. My 9 Yr old prefers sehs because of the 465 (he's favourite) steam doesn't Interesting him at all in rl or on a simulator. He likes old diesel traction.
    Then he plays tsc a lot more than tsw.
    My eldest (14) has lost all interest in trains and plays msfs.
     
  2. Very tricky to get the hang of.
     
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  3. elric#1386

    elric#1386 Well-Known Member

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    Well he's only 14 and the closest thing to a simulator that he's driven, is the Batmobile. What I forgot to add to the above is that the overall experience he did enjoy it to a small degree. To be fair, he's not interested in simulators of any kind. He's into shoot 'em ups and combat! It's just not his style of gaming.
     
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  4. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    I did really like the way the Steam introduction worked. I grew up with my dad firing on the Bluebell so I always loved steam Locomotives but never really understood how they worked very well. The tutorials for steam were good and getting to grips with the challenge of braking etc and managing boiler pressure was fun and rewarding! Likewise learning the 101 has been great fun as well!

    Edit: As someone who's 25 and been a gamer all the way :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
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  5. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I think that's the key - just like any game, heck just like anything in life - the more effort you put in to figure stuff out, the more you will get out of it in the end. Driving an electrostar is a shallow experience, dead easy to get going, not all that rewarding (for me at least). Driving a 101 or steam loco, or antyuhing german with PZB - much harder to get into, but once you get there you will come back time and again for the buzz or knowing you got it right and it feels so much more like being a train driver. *shrug* but that's just my view and I totally get not all share it - but that's fine, if you're enjoying it, you're doing it right and don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise!

    Matt.
     
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  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I guess this is where the possibility of an easy mode comes in (similar to the TSC normal and pro mode trains) but I guess no matter what you do you will always have someone disagreeing with you

    I never found it so, you're reliant on looking at the brake gauge to know what your brake force is rather than where the handle is and that's about it.
    I think the main issue goes back to lapped vs stepped and how people think of both rather than one being inherently more difficult. If anything you get better control with lapped brakes as you have infinite levels. With stepped you get four at best.
     
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  7. elric#1386

    elric#1386 Well-Known Member

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    I'm the same, I just love steam and it's all thanks to my Grandad. Every other weekend, Bank holidays, and school holidays we was always up to North Wales to our little caravan over looking the Ffestiniog. Through my Grandad and his gift of the gab. On my 10th I got to drive Prince and do some shunting work at Porthmadoc Harbour station. Other times ride in the cabs of Linda and mountaineer. My Grandad also used to take me on coach trips to Preserved railway open days. It really fuelled me up. It's through me taking my son to our caravan that got him into steam. It's his first real memory. This is why I am so passionate about wanting SoS to continue being improved. It's the reason why I purchased TSW3 Deluxe. It really is a superb route, but it needs to be made better and have all of the bugs repaired and have that annoying wagon either put in the scrapyard for the ghost of Woodham to cut up, or put back on the tracks!
    SoS if it's not assigned to the back of the dusty cupboard can be made into the best route going, It has so much potential. Why not turn it into a crossover, introduce some outdated clunky diesels to it if more steam isn't possible? Just to bring it out of that lifeless hole that it's in. Truly make it TSW3's Flagship and something to really be proud of!
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
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  8. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Months ago I was on SEHS (The original release), I decided to drive a 31 on a Railtour bound for Faversham. (God I miss those tours) set in winter with snow. At Strood I caught up with a stopping service and was giving a red light on the incline towards Rochester, once it cleared I applied power... And went backwards, it took 15 minutes before I finally had enough power and speed get over the incline at less than 5mph. It was realistic and I loved the challenge. Having a modern train that gets over it with no issue just removes the challenge for me.
     
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  9. elric#1386

    elric#1386 Well-Known Member

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    That's what I love. It really tests your skill and knowledge of the loco. Some really good physics gone into them.
     
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  10. Yeah you get better control of the brakes on most other locos with lapped brakes, the setup on the 101 though is more complicated than it needs to be. I guess that's why dtg put a move to lap key.
     
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean by this, unless you mean it's fiddly to get the thing to stop applying the brakes
     
  12. Most locos you have released, lapped or apply. Don't quite get why you have released ranging from 0-100% and where the lever stays at 100% released? Normally you would hold in release until the air is bled from the brake cylinder then let go and it returns to lapped.
    Passenger comfort maybe?
     
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if that was ever a thing on the unit, or if the people who devved it in game just got that wrong. Personally I usually leave it at 100% brake off just so I know the brakes will stay off (which I realise would likely be unrealistic, but it makes it easier)
     
  14. I do the opposite I always return it to lapped. A couple if times I've needed to stop in a hurry and not managed to because the time it takes to move from 100% release to apply. Then I found the return to lapped key.
    Thay had a 101 at the bluebell railway some time ago. I never paid attention to the braking though.
     
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I use a raildriver to bypass that problem. The keys are very much slower than the levers on that one
     
  16. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    This vintage instruction video is quite good. (4:30 for the impatient)



    After some struggling with the 101 brakes, I actually started to appreciate them. For the simple reason that the release time is rather quick and that let you dose the brakes accordingly. Unlike Classes 31 / 37 / 40 etc. where it takes aaaaages to release the brakes. Which made me undershoot or even stop many times when just a small speed correction was necessary. :|
     
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  17. elric#1386

    elric#1386 Well-Known Member

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    h god that's so annoying, there you are in a 60 or 50mp/h zone then you're hit with a 25. So you hit the brakes, bring it down to 25 and it carries on braking and brings you to a stop! Shouting at the computer Don't You Dare Stop You B#####d! LoL!

    At first I hated the 101, Now I enjoy driving it, even though I still overshoot and stop short now and then!
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    This, I feel, (difficulties of the class 101 brakes) surely makes the case for variety in the sim and why it is good to have a mix of old and new, steam, diesel and electric etc.

    If the majority of trains become similar to drive where is the variety, the challenge, the interest? And, I do accept that a lot of people don't want that I just hope that maybe there are more of us "oldies" lurking around than we realise.

    In TSC if I want to potter along a branch line in an ancient tank engine with some pre-grouping coaches or wagons or race up the WCML in a Pendolino I can.

    I would hope that something at least a little close to that can be achieved in TSW as time goes along.

    Steam has made an appearance but stalled at the moment, classic diesels seem to not be likely to represented any more than they are now for a while at least, modern EMU's are in preponderance.
     
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  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    For me this is more about what you do with the train rather than what type of train it is.
    Shunting, yard ops, cold starts, mutliple operations, run arounds, dodgy freight runs where you're behind a stopper...
    All add interest even in a modern electrobox

    Back in the TSC days I made a scenario from Wembley to DiRFT in a 66, you started off behind a regional express that became an all stopper north of Watford, then you picked up a stopper around Tring and then clear pretty much to Northampton before you had to stop to let one out in front of you which was going to Birmingham, so again you lined up.
    That was interesting because you couldn't just get in and "have the pings go by". Oh and I didn't make it rain which seems to be a default for how to make things interesting in TSW as much as TSC
     
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  20. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    Even if DTG want to include modern routes, they should include more busier ones, I know a lot of mainlines >100 miles with very busy timetables (WAML) around 82 and SEML which at its furthest point is about 70 miles. And they should also look at ECMLs/WCMLs and the MML which is about 126
    miles away from london but very diverse
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well yes I do agree the type of route or services will make a lot of difference even in a modern route. But the difference in operating different trains, for me is very much important too.

    I agree about the rain, that used to annoy me in bundled scenarios with TSC routes.
     
  22. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    I´m under the impression that DTG´s market analysts are not exactly the brightest candles on the cake. Rolling out one single EMU route after another will shy away even the fiercest EMU lovers. God knows the UK routes have already enough of these cracker boxes running around. Meanwhile some really unique routes with great potential are treated like the mother in law. And that adds to neglecting my generations´ purchase power. We certainly are better off, financially speaking, than younger generations with kids, mortgages and schools to pay.

    OK, this might be good for the quick buck right now but on mid- to long terms it´s gonna stall.

    Nevertheless I have a feeling that this discussion is drifting into a black and white cancel culture, so typical ultimately.
    "you not liking EMU ........ me not your friend." and vice versa.
    I might use some derogative terms (´those cracker boxes´, yay) but it´s all tongue in cheek. Nothing personal. And that combined with the respect I have for younger generations when they like to drive modern rail equipment. Sure, and why not. It can have its moments.

    But to answer on your topic: IMHO DTG´s current rollout policies are short sighted. They should try to cover a wider range of periods. If I want to see a modern EMU in action ....... well I can take the real one. But bygone eras are only reproduceable in sims like TSW. And that´s one of the strength of TSW which is poorly explored at this point. Neglecting SoS being the classic here ...
     
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  23. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    And now for something completely different ....... did you notice the generous legroom in the ancient video a few posts above?

    And that awesome visibility all around?

    Ah nevermind ...
     
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  24. Yeah that probably helps. Been meaning to invest in one.
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Unique usually means limited... We don't have the "bread and butter" locos which fill out multiple time tables yet, so lots of "uniqueness" might not be the best thing

    As an example, people on SoS have been asking for the black 5s which ran everywhere, in BR blue we've got the 37 and 47 but would want at least a Class 25 (called rats because they got everywhere), and for newer stuff we'd want sprinters and pacers because they were and are ubiquitous outside of London (I worked 158s out of Cardiff for a year in the mid 90s as a trolley dolly)
     
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  26. Yeah modern routes takes a lot of the freight activities out of the equation. We'll I think so anyway. Look at a modern Liverpool to crewe, all those freight yards and sidings are gone.
    Paired with dtg's a to b runs, there's only so many times you can drive from one end of a route to another before it gets boring.
    I like a run in modern traction but after going from Vic to Brighton and back a dozen times it gets boring.
    This is where a period route would make it more interesting, in a time when farms, brickworks, glassworks, builders merchants etc all had sidings and relied on the railways to deliver thier goods.
    You could start at Brighton with a light loco, backing into various sidings and goods yards on the way to London collecting wagons waiting to be delivered to the city. Stop off along the way to refill the tanks and take on more coal.
    Set in a period when you would find steam, diesel and electric trains working the line.
    Dtg could launch the route with a couple of kettles, like sos and slowly roll out some diesel and electric dlc.
    Take a look at a survey map of chatham in the 1950s you could spend hours in chatham dockyard.
    Dtg seem to be going after the money, short routes, quick to make and one train, with a class 66 layerd in with a few freight runs from a to b only.
    We have a couple of Third party devs now but they ain't big companies like dtg are they, I'd expect them to be doing short a to b runs and dtg doing a lot better!
    This is why I'm not buying any more tsw dlc. I'd rather spend my money with third parties on tsc.
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is where ya lost me. Can't stand driving steam... hated it in TSC, not convinced in TSW either
    I spose you could do the same with a class 2 or 3 diesel (presumably they replaced the tanks)
    One thing I found with DTG routes is they never really addressed sidings properly. If I remember correctly the Sheerness extension had the lines at Queenborough and the Sheerness docks, but because of how the track sections were laid out you couldn't have trains on the lines into Sheerness station and in the docks at the same time.
     
  28. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    So do I. I think the RD is eminently suited to the 101, makes it fun to drive.
     
  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Especially the gears! Either the range up down toggle or the main brake lever to do the gears is so much easier than keyboard
     
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  30. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Also noticed passengers opening the doors and alighting from the train while it was still moving.

    Ah, those slam door days, gone forever.
     
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  31. Yeah that's what I mean. Couple of diesel locos ontop of steam and some electric too. You would probably find that a lot of the old steam engines were used for freight runs though as they were being phased out. Mainly branch line working though.
    With a bit of messing around you can make use of sheerness steel on the sheerness branch in tsc. And have both passenger and freight running at the same time. On tsc dtg modeled working container loading but never made any scenarios that used it. Not to my knowledge anyway. I think there might of been a couple of activities at Felixstowe.
    Which ain't a problem because you can use the editor to create scenarios if that nature, but tsw it seems they are keeping the editor out of our reach to stop us getting more use out of the routes and basically forcing our hands in our pockets when we get bored. The scenario designer is basically useless if you wanna do anything outside of a to b passenger runs.
     
  32. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    The modern age is really starting to be lazy, as in I mean everything is made to just be copied, it's an effect that not only applies to TSW but everything being made, these days you have about 6 or 7 models of car from different makers all looking exactly the same because they share the same bodyshell, nothing is designed to just be a thing any more, it's all becoming soulless carbon copies of everything else, and I'm not bashing modern traction as I do like it, but I would love variety, to include trains and locos that were different so you felt like you were driving a different character with its own personality and quirks not just corporate husks of multiple units that do after a while feel like zombie's with no souls.

    Yeh I know it's a bit of a ramble but welcome to my broken brain lol........
     
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  33. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Yes
     
  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. I like my Kia Sportage but it doesn't have the character of the Ford Sierra I owned years ago, or the Austin Allegro I briefly owned in the early 80s which cost me more in repairs over the 12 months or so I owned it, than I paid to buy it from the shady dealer!
     
  35. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I really want a BR-era route with a busy timetable on the scale of BML or SEHS. NTP is the best option currently to have a properly busy route but the timetable is just so lacking, you pass maybe 3 or 4 trains in the entire length of the route. If we had a BR-era route with an expansive and diverse timetable as seen on SEHS or BML then I'm sure it would prove a big hit and a new favourite of many players.
     
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  36. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Then what the heck was everything you said prior to that? Modern traction isn't soulless, at least for me. I've driven the 101 quite extensively, and I don't think it has any less or more character than an Electrostar or the new 385.

    I'm so sick of people saying modern stuff is worthless. Modern British content is the only reason I play this game, if it was all BR Blue I'd never play it.
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Hence why I still drive an Austin Maestro, modern cars are souless unless they are particularly sporty!

    Even those manufacturers like Renault and Citroen, who you could rely on to be different mostly produce boring euro boxes now.
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Even those manufacturers like Renault and Citroen, who you could rely on to be - on the side of the motorway, possible in flames...

    Anyway, I jest (I actually like some of the citroens), but still, the reason we have conformity bordering on banality is that it's much easier to get parts and spares for 10,000 vehicles than 1,000 simply because of the numbers. And anyway, a citroen BX with pneumatic suspension that can't be towed and needs a flatbed every time you break down isn't a good thing. Give me a Xsara or a C4 any day
    (And I wouldn't say a maestro has "soul"... that really is a new one)
     
  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    BX's were great, you won't find many modern cars with their ride comfort. Modern cars often can't be moved when they go wrong when the "computer says no", especially these electric cars when they run out of juice.

    Yes the Maestro was very underated and surprised me when I first drove one, I have had three now.

    I do wonder if we are heading into an identikit society everything looks the same now, even houses are just off the peg designs a new estate in Aberdeen would be unrecognisable to one in Aberdare or Andover!

    Anyway I am sure we are veering off topic here.
     
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  40. I once had a Austin maestro advantage or something like that. Was a 2.0 turbo and one of the most fun to drive cars I've ever owned. Apart from the onboard computer reading out a long list of faults everytime I started it.
     
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  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The standard MG Maestro was quicker than the equivalent Golf GTI or Escort XR3i. The turbo was a beast. Mine is just a 1.6 Mayfair but it holds its own on the motorway with no problems (usually to the annoyance of Audi drivers)!
     
  42. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Interesting tangent here this thread has gone on. The comparison with cars is notable. I'm a fan of older traction namely 37s (and recently a big soft spot for 26s) I worked with older traction as well up until a few years back. One of the things about older locos was the sounds. These could be loud, they could be different within the class, 37/0s and 37/4s for example. There could be detail difference between class members such as nose ends. There could be a host of different liveries. Currently loving the sector freight mag Simon Bendall has done for modellers. All in all with many modern units, they look the same, they sound the same and have little character when it comes to individual class members.



    Cars of today are often very samey. No exhaust noise, clunky appearance and often based on the Trend of the day. I personally run a Jag XE petrol which goes like it looks Sounds great and to boot does same to the gallon as a lot of these popular bland mobiles.
     
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Whilst this makes a good thing for spotters or collectors unfortunately until there's a proper 3rd party route for liveries in game to be properly applied to the correct trains (ie not livery designer) we won't get any of this. And of course for different noses etc we would need actual blueprint changes which might be impossible without core dev software
    In TSC AP do this all very well, but they can directly output their work. DTG don't do this even if they can (and yeah they can, but they don't)
     
  44. It was faster than the mg version, the escort rs turbo and even give the Sierra cosworth a run for its money. Only downside being on the subject of trains, it had the stopping distance of a unfitted freight train!
     
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  45. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    TsW doesn't really bother with the detail stuff although they didn't in TSC either. The 37 that came had high series 37 numbers with low series body details. Remains to be seen if this will change with more 3rd parties getting on board.
     
  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Well, 3rd parties did, but not DTG
     
  47. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I meant DTG yes.
     
  48. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    One of the things that I find particularly disheartening is when modern routes are justified on grounds that they've already done a heritage version of the route in TSC, which does certainly have plenty of logic behind it. However, this situation doesn't seem to have arisen the other way around. The argument only seems to be applied in favour of modern routes.

    I don't particularly get along with TSC but with the ongoing third-party projects introducing an NSE-era GEML, the LTSR each introducing number of AM units to the game then I am going to be ever more drawn to it over TSW.

    I love the heritage content in TSW, the atmosphere they create and the experience of an era that can no longer be explored in real life is what makes me truly passionate about the game. Even on modern routes I almost always favour the older stock over the new, I pretty much only drive the 313 on ECW and the 465 on SEHS for example.

    The simple fact is, it has been a long time since we've had a BR-era route. I very much enjoy driving WCL, I find it a stimulating and challenging drive, but unfortunately despite the progress Rivet has made with the route, there are still the glaring issues of anachronistic layering decisions as well as a chronic lack of variety in coaching stock which exists across all heritage routes.

    I've barely played TSW for the past few months, and my activity in this forum also fell off for a good while. The simple reason for that is that the content in the game I enjoy the most is the same content I have been playing since I first bought TSW in April 2020 (namely NTP and TVL). I have played those routes so much that they no longer engage me as much as they used to and modern routes are something I play simply to add a bit of variety every now and then.

    In short, I am starved of new content that fits the parameters I most enjoy in the game and so, I sincerely hope that DTG has one or two BR-era routes on the agenda for this year or at the very least plans for some new loco add-ons for existing content (say, wouldn't a nice new Class 25 and DMU for NTP be excellent? It would be a great excuse for a lightning upgrade and new timetable too).

    I feel like a couple of years ago I was hoping for some very specific heritage add-ons, now I simply hope for any at all to give me something new that I want to sink my teeth into.

    Oh well, it's not my place to make these choices, but I feel like I'm drifting ever further away from TSW which is a real shame as I do actually rather enjoy the game.
     
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  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I've actually jumped back into Diesel Railcar Simulator (DRS) the last couple of evenings. It may not have the graphical complexity of TSW but it is very atmospheric. Thanks to the Workshop there are now several additional DMU types to download including the Class 119 and Class 120 Cross Country units. The authors of these fine models seem to have captured what eludes DTG these days, the ability to breathe life into long gone machines, even down to the sound nuances when changing gear. Route building is still in its infancy but there are a couple on the Workshop which are very good, notably Harbord. Several of the routes are a network style and offer a comprehensive timetable too.

    If loco hauled is your thing, there's an 03, 37 and 40 also well executed, apart I have to say from the rather muted in cab sound on the latter two.
     
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  50. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I have obtained WCL in the sale. Thought I would throw Rivet a bone as I have criticised them lately for the Scotrail Lift simulator. I haven't played 2hrs as yet though......
     

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