That is kind of true. But what I believe is that this route will most likely get extended due to its popularity, whether it goes northward or southward I do not know, but what I do know is we have another SEHS situation on our hands most likely, the route will get more love from the devs and they’ll probably give us a extension, maybe to York or Leeds. I wouldn’t also rule out a ECML south, but not as an extension but kind of as a Dresden - Riesa/Dresden - Chemnitz or ECW situation where Peterborough is the starting point and they are two completely different routes
I think a lot of what causes the disagreement here.. specifically London Kings Cross to Peterborough vs. Doncaster to Peterborough.. is what we as players prefer to drive. i personally hate commuter work, stopping at most or all stops every 2-3 minutes or so. The idea of driving an all stops service between Peterborough to Kings Cross would be an absolute nightmare for me.. coupled with the fact the only express driving we'd have would be 80% non stop London to Peterborough/20% the same but with Stevenage stopping too.. i know for me personally that would get boring very quickly Now seeing that Doncaster to Peterborough will have playable services calling at all stops, non stop and Newark only on the full route.. alongside Doncaster to Grantham calling at Retford only.. Doncaster to Grantham non stop.. Peterborough to Newark calling at Grantham.. you see from that the variety of high speed express services is hugely and significatly stronger than Peterborough to London ever could be. so i guess if you like regular stopping, commuter running, i understand this wouldn't be your first choice of section. If you like wide variety of high speed services, this is as good as it gets.. and on the topic of Edinburgh to Newcastle, yes that would be nice of course but it's well over 100+ miles with a lot of complex scenery.. i just can see 100% why dtg chose the section they did, no single section of the ecml will please everyone but i genuinely think this ticks the most boxes of any potential section i really do
Can't comment there: I only sign up to Newcastle! Yes however it would be a commuter experience (I actually said this section would make most sense for TSW even if I despise it in real life). The most varied intercity experience is PBO to Donny however. I assume you mean Newcastle. That section is very strange as the racetrack is fast but scenically dull and the rest of the run is scenically wonderful but always feels more of a drag. At least with Peterborough to Donny there is scenic beauty along the length of the route along with the sense of speed and progression. I must admit I have been limited to Leeds runs this week until today and going back up to Newcastle those final few miles are just astonishingly beautiful, especially seeing that Durham skyline. Ultimately if it were my choice we'd have the Cross to Newcastle, Leeds and Lincoln!
Oop - yes I meant Newcastle haha, if I had my own way I would have done Kings Cross to Leeds though, probably the part of the east coast I have travelled up the most
The only reason I like the Leeds runs is because it often throws up a 225 set which I love, even if they feel ancient compared to an 80x! The 225s are a must for this route though in the future.
agree again here.. and i guess the point is if dtg came here and said 'do you all want london to newcastle, with leeds and lincoln added too?' We'd all say yes, of course we would! but the reality is, from a train sim world perspective, routes can only be so long (i mean technically they could be infinitely long, but it would take years and years to make, so from a logistical and business perspective, we need a bit of realism. i genuinely don't think this route will be extended.. i think we will get Peterborough to Doncaster, which is great, and then dtg will move on to whatever they have planned next. I certainly don't expect this route, or any route, to be extended ever. And if i'm ever proved wrong great, because i can't lose. If i'm right, i have Peterborough to Doncaster to enjoy and i cannot wait for that.. if i'm wrong, i get Peterborough to Doncaster plus whatever extension comes along, which is great. i suppose it's like a lot of things in life.. expect the worse and hope for the best! I expect to have Peterborough to Doncaster and nothing more.. and i'm personally very, very happy with that prospect
Very much agree, as you have said the route's 80 miles which makes it the longest British route (balls to SEHS as it is two separate routes in one DLC) and so we should be thankful. Afterall the ECML is the ECML and I don't think anyone would say no to a section but everyone has their favourite section. I am not expecting an extension but really hoping for a 225, though we'll see how that one goes. I know this route like the back of my hand due to work but the section between Peterborough and Grantham really does have an emotional connection to me as it is where I grew up and have since lived all my life. Memories of the bad, the good and the sort of stuff I can't talk about on these forums have all been formed here and so this route will be something special to me.
London to Like Doncaster realistically would take about double the time it took to make Doncaster to Peterborough
I personally can smell the extension. If we don’t get an extension, don’t be shocked if someone or a group of people commits to it on the editor
I remember the exact same thing happening in TSC with the southern west coast, it was highly requested, then someone made it
I am a betting man and so actually I will put a pint and packet of pork scratchings (if young people know what they are!) on the fact that out of every route in TSW it is the most likely to be extended. The chances of it being extended though I do feel are low, the chances of a 225 I would say is fair and an 800 even more likely. What must be remembered is currently editor stuff is PC only and I think may be more complicated to extend (if it's even possible) than TSC.
Let’s bet it haha.. but yea as you said we can’t edit cooked content, but we can create new stuff, so genuinely a bunch of people with a vision could make the southern part of it as a separate route if it doesn’t get extended within the next year or two. And yes out of every TSW route I do believe that DTG are most likely to extend the route. This route, even with all the moaning about the section would still sell like hot cakes, especially as it’s also a core TSW route. I would love a London extension. Imagine having almost half of the ECML driveable in one route. 28 stations, 156 miles (so essentially the same amount of stations as BML but triple the length)
That's another point on extensions.. i'm still on PS4 Pro console so basically whatever dtg provide is what i get, and nothing more! But if something comes along for those on PC then great.. i'm not one of those who thinks if one group (console) can't have something then nobody can, i'm happy with what i'm getting and if someone provides pc players with more then i genuinely say good for them!
It would certainly be hard work no matter who does it. Sadly although it would be great I am just going to set my sights on a 225 and 800 first, then start thinking about extensions. I do notice they have added an extension tag thing to the suggestions, though 99% means nowt. That is the downside, I am lucky as I have a PC and Series S Xbox and although I prefer playing on the S I can access the editor and it's stuff if there is some good stuff for it/ I get some sudden inspiration! It must be a real bugger for people who are solely console (which is the majority of player base), hopefully they will find a way to make editor stuff playable on the consoles in the future.
It definitely would be hard work, but if DTG can pull off shorter routes with tons of scenery and stations, I have faith in them doing it with longer routes , look at SEHS and BML for instance, all 20 station + routes with great replayability, and they are decently sized. I think DTG could do wonders with it but they would need at least 6-7 months of pure development which could be what we get in the next six months, you never know
I think the work would actually be working out how the extension works as if they do that getting to Leeds and Lincoln becomes a much lesser task. I am very much a layman but as I say I understand the 'bolting together' to be the hard bit as the timetables, AI, etc need to magically much up. Lincoln would be a good playability target, with an 800 though and will give the 158 a bit more to do. Edit: Sorry about the amount of 'work' variations in that first sentence!
It didn’t involve London because it already on the route. Gameplay wise it’s all the same. Speaking of gameplay, KGX to Peterborough would be dull. I’m not staying never do it, but we have SEHS, GWR & BML (GX) for Highspeed runs out of the capital, we’re hardly begging for another one yet.
If they were to be permitted to use the FGW brand, it would be prudent to do that version at the same time for porting onto GWE for more variety there. FGW 180 would be a day one purchase for me.
GX isn’t highspeed. It maxes out at 90mph, SEHS is not mainline, apart from the part from Dartford - Faversham, GWE is too short for an intercity line, and tbf we have a lot of routes that aren’t London based. People were complaining about London Centric routes but we only have Paddington, St Pancras and Victoria. We barely have any London termini
Well the average speed of a train in London is between 30 & 65mph (even slower in some cases), so 90mph express runs are right up there. Again you’ve missed the point, people just got bored of constantly being modern & set in the south. Nothing to do with what is technically what. All to do with it all being set in 1 corner of the country.
There are 12 London termini (14 if you count Moorgate and Blackfriars) Tsw has 3 so far, meaning we have a quarter of all London termini in Tsw so I really fail to understand what you mean by 'We have barely any London termini'
Technically one could argue that there are six London termini in Tsw what with Waterloo, Charing Cross and Marylebone all being stopping points on the Bakerloo Line.
im always so confused about what people think are & aren't london termini you said earlier that there were 10 but wouldn't it actually be 14? Charing cross, Canon Street, London bridge, Blackfriars, Waterloo, Victoria, Paddington, Marylebone, Euston, St Pancras, Kings X, Moorgate, Liverpool Street, Fenchurch Street. only 12 if you dont include blackfriars and Moorgate which some might debate.
I guess your right, I'll edit my original post. But there are still many area's which have seen far less representation then London has.
I agree, but i think a really good place to have ECML if you want a northern section for express services would be Edinburgh - Berwick/Newcastle. Decent amount of stops, and the opportunity to reuse the class 385 for some extra runs to Dunbar and north berwick. Even the possibility of TPE services with an 802 as a future DLC. and if set in 2019, or an earlier date, we could see HSTs and Intercity 225s running which would make it even more interesting than only seeing azuma's. a bit more scenic too
You could even include a X country voyager as well! And a class 380 as a base train for the Berwick and Dunbar runs.
maybe even a cross country hst. assuming they can get the licence for all of it. would love to see a voyager in the game
Compared to how many northern and midland termini we have, London is lacking behind seriously. We only have 3 London termini. 1 third rail, 2 overhead line. Our last 5 British DLC haven’t been London centric at all.
Broaden the search term from "London" to "southeast," and you now have every English route by DTG with the exception of Birmingham, Glossop and the vintage routes. (Also, how do three stations in the same damn city rate an "only"?)
But our last London set route was SEHS, even still, people weren’t complaining about London centric routes, they were complaining about electrostars and how they were repetitive. There are loads of underrepresented London termini and even regions, like the West Anglia and Great Eastern. Literally we barely have any London terminii, compared to the tons of midland and northern terminii. We can literally count all of them from the first DLC
Southeast? We have SEHS and BML for the southeast region, and BML is technically southern region but for the sake of argument I’ll say south east
Going by geography rather than bureaucracy, we have Great Western, SEHS, Brighton, East Coastway and Bakerloo, all set in the southeastern quadrant of the country, and indeed all south of or just on the Thames.
Again, you have almost as many routes/DLC’s set in the south as you do for the rest of the UK, they all came one after another, to such an extent that Modern UK DLC meant you were driving in the South. It gets boring. Again, it’s not about what is specifically where or what. It is about having routes across the rest of the country & not focused in one corner of it. Simply having a mainline doesn’t mean it has to be focused on London, they all have termini on the other ends. The back and forth is pointless anyway, since thankfully, this ECML DLC, isn’t set in the south, a pattern you should expect to continue.
Although King's Cross may be located in London, it still falls under the Eastern region. Historically it belongs to the LNER and its predecessors, so has a different style and architecture compared to BML, GWE, SEHS etc. Ultimately we lacked a conventional AC electric high speed route, now we have one.
The ECML isn’t in the south of the UK. And on what basis are you using to classify “southern region” because by your logic, Leicester and Derby is in the south, which quite literally makes no sense lool. Peterborough isn’t even classed as the south. So unless you are talking about Scotland, technically speaking Peterborough to Doncaster isn’t southern at all, it in fact is the East Midlands. Southern/SE is London, Kent, Surrey, Sussex, Essex, etc. Peterborough is not the south. One second it’s there’s not enough of a network, the next second it’s another complaint
I mean they say 'barth' and 'parth' there so make of that what you will. Woah, now that I just can't accept. Grouping Lincolnshire in with Leicester, Corby and Kettering: Disgraceful it's a much better place than that!
Great Western isn’t south eastern, it’s south western, also BML and ECW are southern but ECW isn’t London centric, and bakerloo line only really counts, bakerloo line and SEHS
You have literally contradicted yourself.. now mr know it all how is Peterborough in the south? Peterborough is the east, it’s not far from Cambridge at all which is eastern
Lincolnshire is East Midlands no? Just south of Yorkshire, beyond Retford is Yorkshire, correct me if I’m wrong. Lincolnshire is right next to Nottinghamshire which is Newark, etc.
Yes, but being from Lincolnshire I have a heavy bias (though it is just better) and so it was a more in jest comment. I hate to admit it but yes Lincolnshire is in the East Midlands.
I never said it had to be though? But be so fr right now, extending it to London is much less of a task than going up north towards Newcastle. Not only is the London end shorter, there is much more rolling stock in TSW which would make the London end a lot less of a headache to get around
they could just extend it to york while it would of been nice to see London its unrealistic to expect an extension so far south with so many stations and extra services. but maybe as a new route in future.
That’s also another idea I’m rallying for, like Dresden - Riesa and Dresden - Chemnitz or ECW and BML, they can have a same origin and ending point, and say if you possess both routes it would work as a part 1 and 2 on the timetable or something
The National Rail website's London & South East map shows that Peterborough and the Gwe's London - Swindon section are both in the London & South East region.
