Ecml South Kings Cross From Ats

I desperately want to get excited about this and agree it looks very promising, but having followed TSW pretty closely since TSW2, my confidence levels are pretty low.

The 3 month window in a usual roadmap is meaningless, but this announcement is for the next 12 months and is so light on detail it feels a bit like sharing a thought bubble. One that they know would go down very well and maintain interest, but is so light on detail, it is hard to know what to think.

My strong feeling is to wait and see, regardless of how good it would be to have it. And this could be about as good as it gets. If it actually happens. At all, let alone before TSW8 which it may not...

 

Well waiting and seeing is what any sensible person would do.

However this is the TSW community so all we will get is the usual hyperbole. Why it won't go to Peterborough, why xx train should be included but won't be, how awful the developer is so they won't be buying it no matter how good it is.

Of course if it is released to Peterborough and they have done a good job most will go silent as though they never said a thing. The usual suspects of course will find a few minor things to moan about as though they are game breaking and announce to us all that they are spending their money on "insert another game title here".

 

I’m hoping ATS have learned from MAC…which, to be fair, is a very well screwed together route, just a bit light for me on layers (hoping for the 331 in a future update). I’d rather sit tight for ECMLS and hope they don’t rush it. This is a huge task to get the layers and timetabling right, not to mention fine tuning a potential 91 release along side it. I’m happy to be patient and not expect a release this side of Christmas.

 

Oh I so hope they do it before that thing was made (would be perfect with just 91s)

 

In which case DTG have typically once again jumped the gun by announcing it - essentially still on the drawing board. Might not even see it before TSW8!

 

Where has this "from what I've read" come from? No actual screenshots of a conversation or anything, just made up speculation, which of course half this forum do the normal and believe. What is the source that they've not decided where to end it? There is a literal screenshot of a location just south of Peterborough.

 

the dovetail direct yesterday is the source, so quite a solid one. the take a ticket for this route is simply ‘ecml king’s cross’, and the only real detail was that more details will be announced in coming roadmaps

 

I was more referring to this "From what I've read the ATS team are potentially still thinking about how far to build the route. Hopefully they'll be able to reach Peterborough." where has this statement come from. That wasn't from the direct.

 

It’s so good to finally see ECML get more trackage. A bit of a change from all the WCML we have had.

 

MAC is actually one of my favourite routes out for TSW imo, underrated, feels very realistic and immersive. Just needed/needs a few signalling issues sorting and it would be even better. Great use of foliage as well.
I wish them all the best, a complex route to make.

 

Thinking about things, I feel like if a class 91 comes it will most be likely be a separate DLC rather than included with the route. I feel like most likely a Great Northern train would be included, probably alongside an 801. With obviously the 700 layering in

Because if the 91 was included with this, it wouldn't end up having services on Peterborough Doncaster or Airedale. Whereas if it was it's own DLC it would be more likely to have stuff on those routes. Starting a 91 out of King's Cross and switching to the Doncaster route at Peterborough to find yourself in an Azuma would be pretty odd. Then there's also the missing link from Doncaster to Leeds meaning you can't even drive from King's Cross upto Leeds and then onto Bradford or Skipton.

 

This is really very sad, I agree :C

 

Another reason why emcl from tsw was such an disappointment, all it needed was a few years earlier and issue solved

 

My theory is that the reason why the route was referred to as just "King's Cross" in the direct is that at the time it was being planned and filmed they indeed didn't know the full scope of the route. Now they do however, hence the screenshot.

The problem with that is that if I were ATS, I'd be screaming to the rooftops that yes, it does go to Peterborough. I'd want everyone to be in no doubt about the true scope of the route, knowing how well requested it is. The relative silence concerns me.

Even if it does go to Peterborough, the route will live or die by it's timetable. The 700 is non negotiable, it HAS to be present or I'm not interested, given how big it's presence on the route is. I'd argue the 387 is also extremely important.

I'm assuming the route will be present day, which is fine but I always hoped that if this route was ever made it would be set in the late 2010s. That would not only enable all the 91, 801, 700 and 387 to appear, but also HSTs and even the 313s in their final years on the route. I'm sure a 365 add on would also be welcome. The potential for variety would be incredible.

I agree that the 91 would likely work best as a DLC, given how it could layer onto two other routes, but I'm still waiting for XC 170 services on MML between Derby and Nottingham so I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

since we’re definitely having the 801 the routes surely going to set from 2019 to 2026
So highly possible we could see the 313, 365 and HST make an appearance in the route. But then again someone could make a slightly backdated timetable.

 

With regards to the XC between Derby and Nottingham I believe this might be coming soon when the Class 70 is released with a new MML timetable, so hopefully you don’t have to wait too much longer

 

A few further thoughts on this - it'll be difficult to nail the first 20 minutes or so out of Kings Cross to Stevenage. For the most part it is very built up and there are a lot of very recognisable landmarks. One such recognisable spot is just out of Kings Cross before you get to Finsbury Park - a house. This house (photo attached) featured in a very early episode of Grand Designs.

Then there's things like the Emirates stadium, Alexandra Palace, the tennis courts which can be seen from Digswell Viaduct at Welwyn etc.

If the dev can nail the details then it'll be a good route.

I work this route almost daily so it'll be interesting to see.

 

ATS pretty much nailed Piccadilly to Stockport (with the exception of the long-range Manchester skyline which wasn’t great) so I’d expect them to do a good job with this.

 

Recycling the 801 again.
Then again after the 90
Would you trust this lot to make a 91

 

That house is really ugly, but for sure anyone will notice if it is missing.

 

I'm going to wait to see what the route looks like in preview screens before I decide whether to buy it. I am very excited. More Eastern Region. Still nothing for Essex, Suffolk or Norfolk but we're getting closer, I hope.

 

Yes, I became 90% convinced that the Wherry Lines was on it's way, considering the posts of a developer making a version of it a while back (they were basically advised that the route was being made by DTG or 3rd party.....unless it was a terrible wind-up by whoever contacted them). Unfortunately the developer stopped their version based on that news.

 

the 700 cant be included as its already its own DLC

 

Class 717 surely

 

This may be an unpopular opinion but I am really hoping a 717 is included rather than the 91. The 717 would add a lotttt of gameplay to the route, whereas the 91 would simply do intercity services that the 801 could do.

I do believe a 91 would be a separate loco add-on as it is so highly requested. What do you guys think/hope?

 

well yeah but of course the 700 will layer in.

 

I don't know much, but I'm very happy to say it wasn't a wind-up.
East Anglia is coming, hopefully it will start a flurry of activity for our region. It's really annoying and we have been so patient. We've got Kings Cross to Peterborough to look forward to which borders East Anglia in the meantime.

 

TBH would much rather have the route set in a time the 365s were still running about. 2017-2019 would be pretty cool, could have a mix of ex-FCC and GN 365s.

 

As we do have a 313 in tsw but it only 3rd rail and modern destination boards instead of blinds it a need of a pantograph

 

I just saw ATS YT video from yesterday. Although it was on TSC it was Kings Cross to Peterborough in the LNER 91. I wonder if this was his subtle nod to what’s coming up in TSW7?

 

I had hypothesised that earlier in the thread, as had a couple of others, but it's just speculation and I have nothing to base in on apart from a vague general history of TSW add-ons/development.
My reasoning was that ATS may want to avoid another Alderney Edge situation, but given there's a screenshot just south of Peterborough (which surfaced after the fact) I see little chance of that being the case now.

 

Someone posted up on a discord thread that the image heading back into Kings cross you can make out the points heading for the third tunnel so would most likely be set to after 2021, which makes sense as should we see a Doncaster to Leeds in the future you'll have an end to end ECML run with all DLC set in the roughly the same time period. With that run though it just screams 91s, so fingers crossed with that one.

The question is will ATS go to Peterborough or like Man Airport which from what I can tell through PC editor was meant to go to Crewe, but ended up cutting it short due to time constraints!

 

To be pedantic that's the 700/0, the 700/1 is more typical for ECML. If ATS can't be bothered to put in the bare minimum effort to create the 700/1 (slotting in four extra carriages) then I don't have high hopes.

It's like how the 807 was included in Milton Keynes to Crewe when the 805 already existed as it's own DLC. No reason they can't do something like that again.

 

The 8 car variant tends to do a lot of the King's Cross to Cambridge stoppers (though this is a Great Northern operated service, and is shared with the 379 and 387). It also does the peak hour Thameslink services to/from Welwyn Garden City, I think from Sevenoaks.

The 12 car variant runs pretty much all Peterborough to Horsham runs, so would be essential as it does the main slower services along almost the full length of the route.

If they do include the 700 (which they should), I think they should update the sounds as the DC motors sound like a 350, the AC motors are too quiet, and when the train passes, the running sounds tend to cut out.

 

Well, it looks as though much of the scenery is done for ECML South. Maybe the extra work needed for rolling stock for a 2021 is what will take time. We'll need a 700/1 which should be easy enough, but a Class 91, DVT and all-new Mk4 carriages and a 717 would be essential. That's a lot of work.

I wonder whether it will initially just have IETs and the new train will be the 717 with the Class 91 will coming later as its own DLC (given that it's not just a new loco, it's a whole new train). I'd be happy with an initial release including 379s, 387s, 700s, 717s and IETs. That's plenty of traction for a new release.

When the Class 91 comes it will hopefully layer on to the Peterborough to Doncaster section too and also serve as AI around Leeds and Neville Hill.

 

I personally, with the work involved in making it, would expect the 91 set to be a separate DLC. Not sure whether the existing ECML route timetable has the layers already for a 91 that it could just slot into, otherwise the DLC could come with a new matching timetable to ECML:S.

 

One would hope that in the Roadmap later today, that it may explain the vague 'Kings Cross' branding we have received so far.

 

Kings Cross to Peterborough
Class 800 and 700
Peterborough to Doncaster (Remaster)
Class 91?
Doncaster to Leeds
Class 195?

 

195s don't run to Doncaster

 

The 12 car 700/1's also run the Brighton to Cambridge Thameslink services that also use the ECML, but I think these only stop at Finsbury Park, Stevenage and Hitchin on the ECML section, whereas the Horsham - Peterborough services also stop at those 3 stations, as well as additional stops at Arlesey, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots and Huntingdon.​

 

They also call at Knebworth southbound in the peak!

 

Not going to copy over every screenshot from the roadmap, but, whilst the roadmap itself didn't specify (for or against), there was this screenshot of Peterborough station

 

Good to see the ugly grey ballast on full show! Though to be fair it's work in progress so could be changed. I got the impression this wouldn't be out for a while. I'm guessing it'll be a TSW8 release.

 

Fair dos. Anything that provides an excuse to make that route.

 

It is a route I'd love to see. Partly because it bridges the gap between the new Airedale and Wharfdale network and the existing ECML section. And if this route makes it to Peterborough as hoped you'd be able to drive all the way from King's Cross to Leeds, Bradford and Skipton.
And also partly because Doncaster is my local station and I've used the Leeds line a handful of times.

 

Now that we know it goes to Peterborough we have to ask why they're being so coy about announcing the full route. Why not just say that it's Kings Cross to Peterborough?

I suspect that the scope of this route is more than what they're letting on.

I have my suspicions that they may be including the Hertford loop and the Moorgate branch. This would mean full end to end services from Stevenage to Moorgate.

 

Given the WIP screenshots, I think this route is alot closer than others think. Just praying it comes with the 91. It would be bitter-sweet if we had to wait for the 91 dlc after this one releases

 

Moorgate would be a cool branch to add. Could even adapt the 313 if the 717 is an obstacle.

 

From the roadmap article, still sounds a way off

 

Would love a 2019 timetable at some point where we see a mixture of the 313s and 717s.

I think we will see the 801, 387 and 700 come with the game and 717 be the new loco. 313s and HSTs could be some kind of layer for a different timetable.
91 dlc
365 dlc
379s would probably come if we get an anglia route. I doubt an add on would get made for the ecml soley. Same for a 321.

I do think a 317 Add on would make sense for a pre 2017 timetable that would see 365s 313s 317s 91s and HSTs be the trains of the time.

Curious what they do with the 802s,could see Hull trains make an appearance at some point hmm. Lumo 803 or a blue 801 would be nice? Perfect time to make a 800 which would be used on Riviera aswell. Proper excited for what’s coming this year