Route Edinburgh - Glasgow - Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Player Feedback' started by TimTri, Aug 10, 2023.

  1. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    If you’re from DTG or Rivet, please read this post for a constructive and detailed bug and suggestion list! Tagging Jasper_Rivet and DTG Matt.

    Just got the route with the PS5 Store discount and thought I’d share my thoughts here!

    I’ve got to say, I’m very impressed. The route is not perfect, but it’s definitely much better than I expected.

    The positives:
    • The timetable felt really busy despite only one train being featured. At all the stations I spawned at on foot, the platform displays were filled with incoming trains. I’m currently sitting at Glasgow Queen Street, while writing this, and trains are constantly arriving/departing.
    • The narrow and distant scenery are above average, the stations are stunning with the detailed textures and interiors. I especially loved the huge display “walls” at the terminus stations, just like in real life. Wish DTG did that as well!
    • The voice announcements inside the 385 are actually tons of fun to use. It really feels like you’re not just in charge of riding the train, but of the whole “service” overall if you get what I mean.
    • Performance was fine, no big stutters.
    • I did not have any problems with the 385’s TMS or cameras, in fact I loved the black/white screen filter on one of the forward cams.
    • The in-cab sounds also seemed fine, no matter the arrangement of the internal door panels inside the cab.
    • The brakes seemed balanced, not as strong as community feedback made me expect them to be.

    The negatives (roughly sorted by severity/importance):
    • The is no rain buildup on the cab window once you’ve wiped away the rain with the wiper once.
    • There don’t seem to be any end destination audio announcements for the services to Dunblane. The lady just said “this train is going to Edinburg Waverley” instead, even though I was in fact driving away from that station. I guess these were simply just not recorded in the first place. But in the event they were indeed recorded, please implement the audio!
    • PIS seems to be hit or miss with the AI trains. It’s also notoriously difficult to select a destination yourself with the two little arrows, because you can’t see which destination you’ve currently selected at the same time (at least on console).
    • The neutral zones seem to be quite inconsistent. I did not notice any abnormal behavior a few times near Edinburgh, but then got a heavy brake application near Falkirk High.
    • There sometimes seems to be a temporary (half a minute or so) high-pitched whistling sound which gets quite obnoxious. I noticed this while in the external cam, far away from my train while driving, and standing at Polmont station while a train was driving away. Not noticing any issues at Glasgow Queen Street now, so seems to be really random.
    • At the terminus stations, the AI train doors are closed almost 99% of the time they’re stationary there. Shouldn’t the doors be opened once arriving and then only close when the next service gets moving?
    • There are multiple green signal bell buttons throughout the 385. All of them work correctly, except for the one directly to the left of the driver’s seat, near the door release buttons. It can’t be spammed and often stops making any signal beeps at all.
    • There is still a “neon” blue effect/transition when entering/exiting some of the tunnels along the route.
    • When you’re trying to open the blinds back up on the driver’s window, you need to move the cursor towards the top of the window for the option to appear. Normally in TSW, the option to open/close the blinds appears wherever the “handle” of the blind currently is.
    • At the rear end of the Class 385 trains in timetable mode, the “gangway” is completely open and accessible, and passengers are theoretically only hindered from jumping down onto the rails by the yellow middle door. Surely the door separating the gangway and cab area from the passenger cabin should also be closed by default?
    • There is a blue rectangular box near the end of the rails between platforms 4 and 5 at Glasgow Queen Street, which can only be seen when approaching from the north. It suddenly disappears as soon as you’re south of the box. Very interesting, probably just a tick box that wasn’t ticked somewhere.
    • There is no route introduction, and the Class 385 training module is not visible when trying to access it from the main menu via Choose Route -> Edinburgh-Glasgow (via journey mode or selecting the Training Center route still works). Surely a route introduction exists (like for all TSW routes), it just isn’t being displayed to the player.
    • The reading light in the 385’s cab doesn’t work, can’t even be pressed. Very unusual for TSW, is this intended?

    Small suggestions/wishes:
    • The southern end of Glasgow Queen Street (including the gorgeous window, fully modeled travel shop, information screens etc.) is not accessible. It’s fully modeled, so why not open one of the ticket barriers and let us explore? Stark contrast to Edinburgh Waverly, which is freely explorable (although the invisible walls blocking us from walking to the eastern half of the station could be removed as well!). At Glasgow Queen Street, the little hall towards platforms 8 & 9 (at the west side of the station) could be opened up to us players as well, obviously keeping invisible walls at the stairs to the underground platforms that aren’t modeled.
    • There is a heritage steam railway platform next to the mainline near Linlithgow. It’s even marked as a platform on the in-game map, but we can’t spawn there. Why not add a spawn point and put a stationary steam loco with a few wagons there? Would be incredibly easy to add but significantly increase the authenticity!

    I will add to the list over time if I find new things, and I encourage you to add your observations (positive and negative) as well! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2023
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  2. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I just wrote about this on rivet forums.The timetable is missing the following services both ways 22:15,22:45,23:15,and 23:45.
    This route has a lot of future potential if they keep developing it.
     
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  3. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    You are very much correct there mate, nothing I can really add. If Rivet can fix the sounds and get the neutral sections working properly again I will certainly play this route much more. It is a route which could have been so good but has turned out to only be another just about average nowt to shout about route. A shame really.
     
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  4. jingyu.park

    jingyu.park New Member

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    Thank you for the well-organized content.
    I want to add just one thing.

    AI trains don't have their drivers.

    This is why I don't play this route.

    When I see AI trains, I feel very strange because they don't have drivers.
    Despite, there are definitely passengers on board.

    It's nice to see a well-modeled trains, but I'm disappointed with no-driver trains.
     
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  5. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    I would absolutely want to get this route, have done since it was announced.

    but these issues are making me not want to go anywhere near it unfortunately and thus haven’t purchased it, such a shame it’s probably the route I got most hyped over to date.

    even a sale of any percentage id probably skip due to the issues.
     
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  6. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Rivets dlcs dont have drivers since release of luzern / sursee.

    They keep their mouth shut about this for some strange reason.

    My personal opinion about rivet: their reaction time for fixing things has improved alot. Also the train features, but their weak spot are the sounds.
    And if the train sounds are not even average on you simulated train, immersion goes down the river. Seems they didnt even include a proper setup for flange sounds on the 385, a straight 5 step backwards from their own product range.

    I see my self playing dlcs with unrealistic / bad sound setup a lot less.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2023
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Might buy it if it got a Class 47/7 or Class 27 push-pull layer!
     
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  8. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    The traction motor sounds are just wrong. Rivet need to go out and record it properly as it sounds very different to what it sounds like irl.

    The announcement voice is not realistic. For me it doesn't feel like a ScotRail train if you don't have the real voice for the announcements.

    DAS screen never gives you advice and it really should.

    NO SMART PIS! :(
    we need smart pis. Not including it is just lazy and makes it look weird.
     
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  9. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    I'd love that!!:love:
     
  10. 1dart Mart

    1dart Mart Well-Known Member

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    I’ve already got the route but I’d play it a lot more with a Class 27 involved. :)
     
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  11. Javelin

    Javelin Well-Known Member

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    They are talking to Scotrail about recording live audio for the class 385 but it's entirely up to Scotrail if they allow them too or not.
     
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  12. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    So would I!
     
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  13. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    hopefully they will, should give them a reason to get onto the other major issues also

    their was an update to the route the other day I saw in the announcement section, but going by how it was just for a collectible seems to suggest no other update has been done to it, or that update opportunity would have brung it.
     
  14. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    I hope so! They are my local/national operator and have heard good things about them when negotiating for cathcart. I don't see why it would be different with rivet.
     
  15. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Yea I had a rant about that on their forums. What a pretty useless update.
     
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  16. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    The rush hour stopping pattern is wrong too with every second train stopping st Bishopbriggs & Lenzie rather than polmont and Linlithgow. Would add some variation.
     
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  17. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    The other thing that is annoying is when you finish a service snd want to take it back in the other direction the announcements don’t recognise the change of direction or next stops.
     
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  18. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    And the announcements don't announce stations when spawning on foot.
     
  19. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Very insightful responses!
    Just gotta hope Rivet takes another good look at the route, because it truly has insane amounts of potential. In fact, it’s so much fun that I enjoy playing it despite all the shortcomings we’re bringing up in this thread. I sent Jasper a link to this thread on the Rivet forums, in hopes of getting the things we collected to the dev team.
     
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  20. 25262

    25262 Well-Known Member

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    I might get it if it was duffs but I would not hesitate to get it if it was mcrats top and tail as that would simply be hellfire.
     
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  21. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I think there is more chance of getting a Catch as Catch can circle with a Dosto set as the traction. What would be a challenging, nostalgic and good fun to drive (27s or 47s on the E and G isn't wanted by the market) so we are left with a half baked lift simulator with some trains that don't sound right, the wrong stopping patterns and the route via Grahamston missed out because the devs wanted to make some moths fly instead.
     
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  22. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    I had previously provided Jasper with the list of outstanding issues and he acknowledged it but pretty much said it was added to a list but no plans of when or if they’d be worked on.

    It is very frustrating and although I’m prob biased with it being a local route to me, I think it’s so close to being such a good route, one of the best.

    I don’t really understand why they don’t, there’s already a lot of people uncertain of rivet routes and they subsequently won’t buy future routes. Imagine if they made all these fixes made this an effectively bug free dlc. Immediately it increases sales for their next route.
     
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  23. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it's exactly these reasons that I just don't feel like I can trust Rivet and other third parties to improve routes and look after their customers. I really hope Just Trains manage to turn around the stigma on Third parties at the moment and deliver a fantastic route :)
     
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  24. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    I've actually started to use this route a bit more but only in scenario planner with the 700, I think the scenery is nice in some places but the 385 is a train I'm not too fond of, it's mostly the physics & sounds, the model is for the most part pretty good but I've founds problems I simply can't ignore.
     
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  25. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The timetable could still be busier; IRL there are services from Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Central via Shotts and Carstairs, and services from Glasgow Queen Street to Falkirk Grahamston via Cumbernauld, all operated by the Class 385. These few extra AI-only trains would go a long way to making the termini of the route feel that bit more alive.

    I also wish Rivet would update the station PIS displays to show intermediate off-map destinations, as currently they only show stops on the route and the end destination (e.g. Glasgow QS to Alloa services should also display Larbert and Stirling on the list of destinations).

    Does anyone else still experience the brakes applying when passing through neutral sections? (with the CPBC set in neutral).
     
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  26. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Yup still happens.
     
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  27. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    Yep albeit on the odd occasion it doesn’t the majority it still does.
     
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  28. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I have to say I’m unlikely to buy future ones, certainly not until I see a fairly strong consensus on here that it’s a high standard, which is a shame as they do, do some things really well.

    I can accept there will be bugs, but only if they actually get fixed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
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  29. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I hope instead of moving on to another route that rivet does work on it and extended and add another loco. Lots of potential on this route.
     
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  30. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    Adding the Stirling lines would makes sense from both sides and would allow a 170 and HST. But they really have to fix the existing issues before I’d buy anything else.
     
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  31. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    I guess we’ve just got to hope the Rivet devs return to the route and take another good look at it at some point.
    • Even though Rivet doesn’t have the best reputation regarding post-launch support of their add-ons, they did often eventually go back and improve older content (even though the wait was often many months or even years). So not all hope is lost.
    • Edinburgh-Glasgow is quite close to their “home” in Stirling, so there’s got to be a lot of personal motivation to get it right.
    • There’s also lots of potential for expansion/enhancement packs, and we can’t forget about the 385 sound recording trips which still seem to be in planning.
    • They probably also have a lot of work right now, since they’re likely either supporting DTG with their new content (like they previously did with the route building on Glossop Line) or working on a completely new route themselves - after all it’s already been 7 months since Edinburgh-Glasgow got released.
    • Perhaps fixes are already completed or in testing, but will be released once the rumored new TSW game is out. It was sort of the same case with TSW3, which included a massive amount of fixes for older content at launch.

    If we had the chance of getting a very small patch with a few fixes right now, this is what I would like to get fixed the most. These should greatly improve the route without needing to invest too much work at all:
    • Brake application in neutral sections
    • Class 385 AI PIS destinations missing
    • Class 385 no rain on windscreen

    As part of a bigger patch, with more resources available to the developers (for example to coincide with an expansion/enhancement add-on), these are some additional fixes that come to mind:
    • Class 385 sound improvements (including running sounds and erroneous exterior whistling noise)
    • Additional AI services (plus fix for the unrealistic closed doors between services)
    • Missing passenger services both ways from Edinburgh to Glasgow and Glasgow to Edinburgh (22:15, 22:45, 23:15 & 23:45).
    • Off-world “calling at…” stations missing on platform information screens
    • Missing audio announcements on services that end outside of the map (e.g. Dunblane)
    • Fixes for in-cab buttons (e.g. signal button not working properly)
    • Blue neon color shock when entering/exiting tunnels
    • Removal of invisible walls blocking off sections of Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh Waverley

    Most of these points are explained in my original post above, or comments from other users.

    I feel like I need to specify the “closed doors between services” point: In TSW, I understand it’s a core limitation that doors are closed between services because the player needs to open them at the beginning of a service, so the AI will have to do the same. But on DTG routes, the doors close very shortly before before the service is meant to begin and immediately open up again. Rivet however seems to have instructed the AI to close the doors almost immediately after arriving at the station, so the train will sit there with closed doors for many minutes until the next service begins. This is obviously highly unrealistic and also leads to passengers overcrowding the platforms since they cannot enter the service they were “created” or spawned for.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2023
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  32. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Great post. Also let’s not forget The timetable is missing the following late passenger services both ways from Edinburgh to Glasgow and Glasgow to Edinburgh, 22:15,22:45,23:15,and 23:45.
     
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  33. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Are those services not there at all, or are they just not listed in the menu?
     
  34. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The biggest issues are all listed, and unfortunately they all come together to leave a really bad taste for this DLC.

    There is one thing that I haven’t seen, and that’s the lack of speed sensation? You never feel like you’re going very fast in this train when inside the cab, I think it’s something to do with the shape of the cab, but maybe there is a technical solution to apply. (Not that I’m hopeful).
     
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  35. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    A good sound ambiente makes the difference. I use the mods, but without flange sounds the train just doesnt sound like a train.

    Rivet seems to struggle heavily with this. But hey we got working elevators. ;)
     
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  36. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    Not there at all, I also included these on the feedback I gave to Jasper.
     
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  37. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Someone spotted some rivet games vans at Shields Depot so all hope is not lost on sound upgrades. :)
     
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  38. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    In my honest opinion, I personally think this is by far my least favourite route from TSW 3. I find the timetable is extremely dull with no long-term gameplay value, empty large stations with no AI-only traffic at all, a majority one-loco route; and any extras are extremely limited i.e. why literally just the one RHTT or Steam railtour and not at least a return journey? As a big fan of EMUs, I find the 385 disappointing, especially such as the sounds and TMS.

    Edinburgh-Glasgow in theory should've been a route I really would have loved, but I don't. :| One of my big criticisms of TSW overall is why routes like this are chosen with two very large stations without adequate rolling stock; I really wished Glasgow Central was used again so at least they could have had all the 314 traffic from Cathcart as AI at a bare minimum.
     
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  39. steveownzzz#6107

    steveownzzz#6107 Well-Known Member

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    Now that SEHS is pretty much exhausted, I would imagine they’d like to start leveraging some of the existing routes to add more depth to routes.

    For example, we’ll probably see New Street start to fill out with layers at some point. I’ve got a feeling that there’s been a strategy to DTG’s releases as they’ve gone away from southern UK recently.

    But as for Edinburgh-Glasgow… I don’t know if this was part of a larger strategy, being a third party route. I’m doubtful we’ll see these stations fill up with layers anytime soon.

    I think Rivet is best when they do a small route like IOW. Otherwise, they just don’t have the layers to use and there’s no depth to the route. Their modern IOW is their best work. Heck, maybe they should just do a modern Arosalinie.
     
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  40. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. This route had a lot of potential but was wasted. They still can be make it right. They need to stay with this route and add to it. I'll be honest I will definitely not by another Rivet games or Sky hook DLC route unless is too add to their last routes ( Edinburgh/Glasgow and MML). I'm tired of them making on loco DLC and forget routes

    They could had included Stirling/Alloa/Dunblane services . For freight they should had included grangemouth siding docks and sidings.
    Below is TSC map from Edingburgh/Glasgow that would had been great if they would had just duplicated it.
    [​IMG]
     
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  41. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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  42. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, this I'd love to see. SEHS is a great example, although I do think this one route had way too much DLC where other routes should've of got some loco DLCs. Nonetheless, as you say, would like to see more depth to existing routes, ideally the 700 for BML, 222 for MML, ICE 1 and 101 for Munich etc, plus there's plenty of other German routes like HRR and RRO that are completely missing ICE high-speed services!

    Problem is, I'm not that optimistic of whether DTG will ever make existing large stations in-game more busier. Regarding UK routes, with exception of St Pancras (ironically from SEHS, of course) which got the extra HST AI traffic, and well actually not forgetting Brighton from ECW to London Commuter too, we've never seen the likes of Paddington, Glasgow Central, New Street, Manchester Victoria/Leeds (in BR Blue era) etc ever get more traffic whether from their existing base route, or a completely new route which uses such a station.

    Regarding Waverley and Queen Street, there should be no excuse for leaving these empty even if it's a third-party route; iconic large stations like these shouldn't be completely empty like ghost towns - it's disappointing already that such a route like that is so empty, let alone considering it's a TSW 3 route of all things which should have busy timetables and AI traffic from the start.

    Indeed, it's so frustrating considering when there's other routes which have so much playability whether from decent timetables, plethora of rolling stock and DLC, variation of service types (passenger vs freight) etc. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Rush Hour routes were and are the pinnacle of TSW as they are great in so many ways - DTG consistently need more such routes like this in the future that's for sure.
     
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  43. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    I think Midland Mainline was the best route to come from a partner developer yet! Hell of alot better than what we've seen from rivet (IOW being an exception) and the sounds were top notch! There are a few minor bugs but nothing you might not see in a dtg route! Skyhook did a great job and I'd quite like to see what they make next!
     
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  44. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    needs more clutter, better sounds, fix the wipers and rain problem, put weights on catenery
     
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  45. SD40Australia

    SD40Australia Well-Known Member

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    Yes!
    MML is very enjoyable!
    I actually went and bought it because I saw the massive amount of complaints.

    Nothing wrong with it (a few minor bugs but I could complete scenarios and currently have Mastery) but on Navekher Dresden Riesa I can't do the mastery achievements as tutorials bugged but yet that Dresden route is EPIC. The amount of buildings in it and great scenery and rollingstock. It was vastly improved since Rush Hour was first released.

    I hope that the mainline is done from Dresden to Leipzig and also Berlin to Leipzig. The German stuff is EPIC!
     
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  46. Mitchellman151

    Mitchellman151 Member

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    could be wrong but i dont even think Rivet did the fix, saw a post from Matt P saying about fixing the poster
     
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  47. KatiaBLR

    KatiaBLR Well-Known Member

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    I really like the edinburgh-glasgow route myself.. i do wish it was released as a full network to include the lines to Alloa and Dunblane via Stirling, but i understand why it wasn't

    my only wish for this route is they use the actual full-capacity timetable and not the reduced one (which i assume was due to covid rules at the time).. as in game there are trains between Edinburgh & Glasgow every 30 minutes.. whereas pre and post covid they actually run every 15 minutes

    this small change of making it 4tph instead of the current 2tph would really make the route feel more alive.. and more realistic
     
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  48. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Good point, I will add these to my comment as soon as possible. They would probably be part of a bigger patch though, as adding them would likely require a re-simulation of the timetable.
    The marketing for this route was very very good. We were all so excited! They focused on all the cool unique features, which made the shock during the preview stream because so many of the basics were missing even more severe.
    Worth noting Midland Mainline has severe issues on PlayStation, which makes it unplayable for many of the PS4/5 gamers. A shame because the route seems to be quite well-rounded apart from that, and more patches are still coming according to Skyhook.
     
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  49. steveownzzz#6107

    steveownzzz#6107 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a fair observation. I suppose that the reasoning would be that they’ve had to build a portfolio of routes over time. Probably a case of, you can’t layer if you don’t have the pieces yet. Hopefully now the portfolio has some good pieces that they can leverage and build off of. This is one of those games that relies heavily on existing content that they can build off.

    I think in most cases that means that the new route receives layers from the existing routes…but we don’t see much of new content layering onto old, for lots of reasons.

    So, frustratingly, I don’t have high hopes that we’ll see a busy London Paddington anytime soon. I’ve got to think that years down the road, some of the good legacy routes like GW will get some sort of treatment to keep the route relevant… others will be by the wayside but it is what it is.

    Anyway, I’m hoping they break precedent and add traffic to stuff like BCC new street if new layers were to become available. As the portfolio grows I would think they’d want to keep some of the content relevant where possible.

    But I think up until now what we’ve seen is a lot of portfolio building. Interested to see where things head over the next few years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2023
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  50. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    It should have been a copy of the network mentioned above. I was responded to negatively by some for daring to suggest this. End of the day if people want to be spending money on half the job routes like this then the future looks grim. When TS2030 comes out and its Queen St to Bishopbriggs and be thankful I won't be surprised and won't be buying it.
     

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