Edinburgh-glasgow Preview Stream Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by TrainGeek08, Jan 24, 2023.

  1. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    1.5 miles, wow, the brakes must be that bad but once I get used to it, I'll probably go back to slowing down from a mile out like I'm used to :)
     
  2. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    I've just taken a Class 385 out on the dead-level Training Center loop to measure the braking force (empty 4-car unit) to try and put some numbers to the argument.

    From 100mph (maximum line speed), I measured that in constant full service braking, it takes 44.64 seconds for the 385 to come to a dead stop. Given that 100mph = 44.7m/s, this gives us a full service deceleration of 1.001 m/s^2, which is bang on.

    I also measured the emergency stop from the same speed, taking 37.85 seconds to come to a dead stop. This gives me a value of 1.18m/s^2 - again, pretty much bang on (considering the slight measurement error of me timing on my phone).

    On this evidence, I'd say that Rivet have got it correct to the specification you've provided, unless there's a significant problem with my method or calculation - happy to be corrected as ever.
     
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  3. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Agree with the braking. In the middle of the route, when going 90 - 100 mph, step 1 at 1.5 miles out to begin slowing down, then step 2 at 1 mile out. Let the train slow from this and vary the brake setting to slowly cost into to stop point.
     
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  4. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Interesting. Thank you.
     
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  5. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    After playing the route for a couple hours this evening on console here’s my verdict. (p.s. it’s a long read but may be worth it if you’re considering it/if rivet sees this it would be helpful for them too.)


    Starting off with the good, the model off the train and stations are overall really good and it’s nice to have working lifts and a piano i can play every once in a blue moon. But tbh, there isn’t much else that is good, so onto want needs improving. the main issue - the sounds of the 385. They are completely off and it sounds like ur driving outside when in the cab, and the loud running sounds give me a headache. the motor sound plays continuously even when coasting with no power on which is aggravating. the door beeps are awful quality and go on for way too long. i’ve heard stuff about them possibly fixing this however i’m not keeping my hopes up. second of all- lighting inside and outside the train. inside the train when the saloon lights are on the “lights” on the ceiling do not light up anywhere near how bright they are irl, and behind the toilets there’s random light bleeding through the walls which looks awful. outside the train the lighting on the side of the train looks over the top and grainy, giving an awful look. Another thing that’s annoying which may seem nit-picky is the door buttons are both open signs rather than open and close, and also the animations of the passenger doors seems a bit fast. There appears to be a lack of fencing across the whole route, mainly at EDB, HYM & GLQ. Rivet have definitely put detail into the route, just not in what i would see as the prioritised areas. i was so excited for this route since the first teaser, i’m now the least interested i’ve ever been in a new route especially when it has one of my favourite trains on it, especially after paying £30 for it. Overall i’d give it a 4, maybe 5/10 atm, hoping it improves over time.
     
  6. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I wouldn’t hold out much hope for improvements. Rivet have been extremely bad at fixing their previous releases. It feels like once a route is released it’s abandoned. I hope they do fix it though as I was really looking forward to this route.
     
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  7. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    also another thing, idk if it’s just me but i find it odd how we can’t have 6 and 7 car formations. in reality most alloa services are formed of 6 coaches and there’s many 7 car eXpress services so it removes that immersion factor aswell
     
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  8. woolybanjo#1219

    woolybanjo#1219 Member

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    Totally agree bravo, I usually brake as gently as I can and as early as I can, for example on London commuter I use step 1 braking at 1.5miles out, lovely stop, here it's 2 miles away at 20ish percent increase to 30 at 1.5 away but I suppose we all drive in our own way
     
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  9. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly not but surely you can make those formations in Scenario Planner, most Dunblanes are 6 car from Glasgow, and 3 or 4 car from Edinburgh, 7 or 8 car for the express services with some off-peak exceptions ;)
     
  10. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    i don’t think you can make the formations in the scenario planner from what i’ve seen
     
  11. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    My perception is that the issue with the braking is not to do with the Simugraph setup as per my post above but is much more likely down to:

    a) the very low sensitivity of the power handle (takes ages to move into a position as you hold the key down)
    b) the bizarre way that the game feeds the 'step number' back to you - when the brakes are applied, Step 2 is between 50% and 100%. However as the brakes are released from Full Service, Step 2 is between 75% and 25%. Weird huh?

    So to set the handle behaviour out more clearly:

    As brakes are applied
    Step 1: 0 - 50%
    Step 2: 51 - 99%
    Full Service: 100%

    As brakes are released
    Full Service: 100% - 75%
    Step 2: 74% - 25%
    Step 1: 24% - 0%

    So if you apply the brakes and get into Step 2 anywhere up to 99%, then start easing off, you're still in Step 2 all the way down to 24%.

    This is definitely a perception problem / weird HUD behaviour rather than incorrect Simugraph setup IMO. Jasper_Rivet might be worth looking into this.

    The loco itself doesn't appear to have 'steps' marked on the handle, rather a continuous sweep of braking force from Min to Max.
     
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  12. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    My technique is to go right into notch 3 at 1 mile out to knock it down by about 40% and then drop to notch 2. Since that notch is fully variable, just slight movements either way allow me to regulate the speed right to a stop and, so far at least, always almost exactly on time. I really am quite pleased with the brakes on this, but appreciate others may not feel the same way.
     
  13. Folup1372#8582

    Folup1372#8582 Well-Known Member

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    Hi dovetail! I am making a complaint about the new Glasgow Express route and wanting tho say how disappointing it is! The brakes on the 385 are very weak, motor sounds are not realistic, and the acceleration is very poor, aws, the screen, the announcements are broken and don't function and guard panel does not work at all, the price is also a bit too high for a normal-sized route... its also a route that people didn't really want, My railfan freinds that i talk to to say that they want a London MainLine route or WCML OR ECML and i agree with them, i am very disappointed, and this definitely needs patching. that is my thread to dovetail @traiingeek08
     
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  14. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    If you scroll up a bit, the braking/deceleration rate is realistic. The 385 has a deceleration rate of 1m/s^2 or 2.2mph/s. Emergency braking rate is 1.2m/s^2 or 2.7mph/s. Now, go calculate it yourself since it's easy math
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
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  15. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    I have had no trouble stopping. You do have to dip in to the braking range a lot more than say, the 323, to get a decent amount of initial braking, but it’s fine once you recalibrate your brain.
     
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  16. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    This issue isn't specific to me, so no need to quote me ;)

    The brakes are fine as rennekton#1349 and others have said already :)

    If your Railfan friends have a suggestion for you, then make that suggestion in the Suggestions channel with as much detail as you can so the suggestion isn't boring ;)
     
  17. Folup1372#8582

    Folup1372#8582 Well-Known Member

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    i already have made that suggestion
     
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  18. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Ah OK, well that's good, and any routes you think of, no-ones stopping you from suggesting them, voice your ideas ;), I am suggesting another Scottish route tonight if you want to see how I lay out my suggestions :)
     
  19. Folup1372#8582

    Folup1372#8582 Well-Known Member

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    alright
     
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  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was seeing in the live stream by watching closely as Matt was braking bad, so it is nice to have it confirmed along with your timed testing matching the specs. It did look like max brake was about right as I said in my post earlier and from your times that appears to be spot on. I couldn’t quite get a handle on the apparent notch readings (that shouldn’t really be there) versus percentages but noticed they were very odd and and it appears from your post that they don’t make much sense at all. I’m happy about the brakes now but a bit dismayed at all the other issues I’m hearing from many players.
     
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  21. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    you know that someone put up a mod fix on the break, in case you can't handle the brake. The brake almost felt like the LIRR M7A brake especially when it comes to putting it in power- from notch 1 to notch 2 you have to hold it before it moves to the 2nd notch, is that how it is in real life?
     
  22. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Do people find it hard to use the TMS System, cause I someone find it a little hard, especially the announcement tab, and also why is it so blurry the TMS System, sometime you barely can see what it said, you have to zoom in, in order to read what each announcement read.

    londonmidland Is it possible you can make the TMS System more readable, i find the screen in game TMS system a little blurry. Thanks

    Look at the attachment:
    1st normal view
    2nd Zoom In View
    I wonder if there is any way to change the order or the position of the announcement also, why did they create a first section where the announcement is the same as the 2nd and 3rd. Basically, there was no point in creating it, when it's the same announcement again. I feel that the announcement layout is terrible and hard to get to. They should implement a way to scroll down the announcement using the mouse scroll wheel on PC which will be a lot faster. :|
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  23. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Well, I just actually turned the TMS system on for the first time doing an east bound run. Never went past the initial screen and as far as the announcements, they have very little meaning to me, so won't plan to use them. Now a question concerning speed limits. At about 8 miles from Haymarket, and before you cross a viaduct, there is a double sign. The top is 80 and the bottom SP 90. The game defaults to the 80, but isn't this train conceded to by self-propelled so the 90 should apply here. Another comment, I have seen posts referring to a light in the long tunnel coming into or out of Waverly. I watched a cab ride video yesterday for a run west, it was 5 years old, and mid-point in that tunnel is an air vent to the surface that lets in a shaft of light. Wonder if that is what Rivet was trying to model.
     
  24. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Yes, the 385 should be travelling at 90 and not slowing to 80 as required by the HUD. I’ve included this on the bug/issues list I’ve put together.
     
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  25. woolybanjo#1219

    woolybanjo#1219 Member

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    90 is for diesel sprinters such as 150, 158 etc due to weight limits. 80 is for all other traffic
     
  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a lot of confusion between the spheres of QA and beta testing, which are separate. QA's job is, basically, "does the game crash?" The complaints I am seeing about this route from lighting to sounds to brakes all fall within beta's ambit.
     
  27. KCRCRailway

    KCRCRailway Active Member

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    Doesn't sounds like a bug.
    According to this website, this is an non-standard way to describe speed limit. (See [13.91]).
    Edited: Also see the previous page for another example of using SP, see [13.74/77], SP was defined as ["SP" for 'Sprinters' (applies only to certain classes of DMUs)] on the webstie on same page of [13.74/77])
    The following part are the original word of the webstie:
    In June 2000, non-standard differential speed restriction signs were installed on the line between Whitlingham Junction and Sheringham (East Anglia Zone), with higher speeds applicable to Class 150 - 170 trains. These signs were unusual in that the letters "SP" were placed below the relevant speed value [13.91]. Where warning indicators were provided, however, the lower indicators had the letters "SP" above the speed value in the normal fashion (see [13.57]). The "SP" speed restriction signs on this line were replaced by ordinary "MU" speed restriction signs in December 2021 in connection with the introduction of Class 755 trains.
    I remember this line used to run with the 170s so it applies to them, debatable on if the SP also applies to 385 after electrification. Also debatable is when was this line set---Thought it was 2022? Or maybe the sign on E2G (IRL) didn't update yet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  28. KCRCRailway

    KCRCRailway Active Member

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    Edited: The conclusion was changed as discovered Network Rail count 380/385 into the SP speed limit as local practice, see reply below
    I go dig into Network Rail's document and conclude that this is not a bug at all.
    According to the Scotland Sectional Appendix December 2022, available here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/
    On Page 14, Section 2, Clause 2.1, named under [Rule Book Module SP - Speeds : Permissible speeds and enhanced permissible speeds] it says:
    SP Classes 150, 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, 165, 166, 168, 170 , 171 and 172
    SP=Sprinter (and some other stuff), NOT 'Self-Propelled' which is your own (mis)understanding apparantly,
    Note: The misunderstanding of SP stands, but the conclusion was wrong due to Network Rail adding extra explaination of SP 430 page later where the exact speed limit appears on the map.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  29. KCRCRailway

    KCRCRailway Active Member

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    In fact I just look a bit further down the Network Rail Document.
    The same document as I replied above included a route map. On p9 (in fact p445), there was Haymarket station marked 46miles.
    Looking at p13 (in fact p449), there was the 36 Arch Viaduct, around 38miles.
    Now funny thing happens: It was Correct that Rivet put the 80/SP90 there. YET, there was a line saying the following:
    [Class 380/385 may also run at higher speed]
    I guess this is the local practice moment, so guess it was still a bug but because Network Rail only write that sentence another 430 page after the defination part.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  30. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    The route is set as of now.

    I would have thought a Class 385 capable of 90mph through the SP board (MU would suggest Multiple Unit). If MU boards have replaced SP boards, the 385 would qualify!
     
  31. KCRCRailway

    KCRCRailway Active Member

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    Guess you just missed my 3rd reply :P
    Seems situation was officially SP doesn't count the 385, nor the route replace the SP to MU in 2022. But Network Rail in practice allow 385 goes 90 on SP---Probably they know the route was fit enough for 385 but too lazy to change the board.
    So guess Rivet still need to go get the 385's speed limit set to 90, well at least they get the sign itself understand correctly if Network Rail didn't insert that sentence all the way back...
     
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  32. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Just reading through them now :)
     

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