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Editor

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by jevan-dean, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    All righty, Let us all boycott a free upgrade... makes sense... not!

    I have a serious question for all those upset about the length of time waiting for the Editor(coming soon). How much would you be willing to pay for the Editor? If the concern is the fact DTG will be releasing the Editor for free and as such has no direct impact on the bottom line, what price point would the community be willing to pay?

    I am well aware of the knock on benefits of releasing the Editor such as third party development, reskins, amateur route building and community fixes. DTG is also aware, but if people don’t think that is enough economic incentive for DTG to release, or if they release an editor that is difficult to use, limited in features or bug ridden which would have a definite negative economic impact, the purchase price of the Editor would help to reduce the economic risk.

    Personal I am satisfied to wait as they work through the beta and hopefully release a functional Editor for free. But for those who are dissatisfied with the wait for a free product, what price point would you be willing to pay to incentivize a faster release?

    Don’t take this a serious proposal, just some idle musings from one tired of hearing the complaints over the Editor
     
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  2. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    If you are tired, take a vacation. It could help you.;)
    As for the price of the editor, I am willing to spend even 200,00 euros
    (thank God I don't need almsgiving:cool:).
    And, mind you, I'm not joking at all.
     
  3. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Contract to popular belief, the editor will NOT enable bugs to be fixed quicker or allow the community to fix them yourself.

    Unlike TS1, TSW routes made by DTG cannot be edited via the editor which means we will not be able to fix, change or alter things in the route. It is entirely up to DTG themselves to fix bugs and issues with their routes.

    The release of the editor will not change this.
     
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  4. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    I am interested in inserting repaints and using them at the same time with the original trains, to CREATING A RAILWAY CONVOY ACCORDING TO MY TASTE, an Quick Drive, some external developer who creates something to rekindle TSW's boredom.
     
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nope. 2020 is a core game update, but they change the bundled DLC
    If you want to boycot the new route you do that but it's not the same thing
     
  6. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with that because that would mean never playing TSW again as the update will be required to play after Aug 15
     
  7. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    In a parallel universe I could see the editor being sold as a module... I'd have paid for it since at least then I'd have been able to customize my experience to a point where I might still actually be playing it.
     
  8. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    Publication of the editor =
    + 50% of users compared to today.
    + 70% of addons sold.
    + 100% of fun and variety for everyone. All this in a few weeks.
    It should not be forgotten that in the long run a program like TSW will be kept up by PC gamers.;)
     
  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    + Hours hunting for asset requirements spread over ten different websites all of which might not work
    + Errors not supported by DTG because you've installed 3rd party anything
    + Down the line, assets being removed or discontinued meaning services / scenarios not working
    It shouldn't be forgotten that we're not all willing to pay for things and then have to F2 past known errors that could have been fixed by replacing those requirements with the newer ones
     
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  10. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    The type of program (see TS) involves these problems.However, without these, fun and variety are lacking. And, as you can see at the moment, boredom is the main protagonist.
    Moreover, for a hobby the costs are always in the background. Otherwise it is no longer a hobby, but a commitment.
     
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Depends on your version of "fun". Given most of the posts on this forum are about things that don't work, having a lot more people producing stuff that doesn't work is a cause of concern rather than "fun" for me
     
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  12. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    There is no doubt. We have two very different ways of seeing things.
     
  13. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    If you don't like it, don't buy it and don't play it. No nagging here is needed.
     
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  14. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I'm going to bring my tinfoil hat out because what I'm about to say might rile up some feathers. What if DTG is purposely gimping the editor to push more DLC? I think there is little debate that the best TS1 DLCs are 3rd party ones. From what we've seen in TS1, the cycle of 3rd party DLCs is to release it on an external marketplace, and after initial sales are done, a partnership with DTG to convert the rest of the people who stick to Steam and official DTG related channels for DLC. This ensures that they are able to capitalize on 100% of the proceeds (minus the small cut for the external marketplace), and then later, give DTG whatever cut to ensure that it is available on Steam (pretty sure DTG cut is larger than lets say 100% of the proceeds going to Armstrong Powerhouse for example).


    As of right now, for a brand new user, they can pay whatever base price for MSB, LIRR, and NTP, and if they choose to, they can get the new California route for a little more. This is a pretty solid haul of assets for 3rd party people to create whatever their imagination brings them. Why release the editor now, when you can do it a little bit later when a few more routes are released, and forcing those who are interested in TSW, to only buy through Steam/DTG marketplace. That way DTG ensures more profits before the editor is officially released. Seems farfetched, but not really considering the only News articles you read are for DTG upcoming DLCs and absolutely nothing on the editor for the past half year.
     
  15. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    The fact that DTG is deliberately delaying the release of the editor, I would say, is clear. However, without the ability to compose trains according to one's own tastes and in the absence of a QD, probably (or rather without probably) another hobby will be sought by many current users. I definitely do it.If
    DTG has decided to make a simple multi-platform game, it is clear that they will lose more users than the users they earn.
    As I wrote in a previous post this program without the participation of third parties (even with simple repaints) has no kind of future.
    So the company is DTG. The last word is up to them.:)
     
  16. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    Since most of the complaints on the forum are about DTG releasing stuff too early, before all the bugs have been fixed, isn't there a certain cognitive dissonance required to also complain that they should release the editor immediately, before all the bugs have been fixed?
     
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  17. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Guest

    Bugs and the editor are two different things. The hope is that DTG can (soon) solve everything.
    Would be great.
    But perfection is not of this world.
    The program Is very nice.
     
  18. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    If DTG were deliberately delaying the release of the editor, to make more money on their own DLCs, then they'd be idiots.

    They're not idiots.

    More content for TSW is good for DTG, commercially speaking, whoever produces it, and their own route-building resources are very limited, so it absolutely makes financial sense to get a working editor out as soon as possible, and I would guess that they are straining every sinew to do exactly that.

    However, there's a huge gulf between an internal tool that DTG staff can (just about) use to build routes, with 24/7 technical support from its developers, and a reliable, polished, easy-to-use piece of software suitable for the general public. That takes not only a vast amount of time and effort to produce, but requires the tool itself to be largely feature-complete and stable. When it's evolving rapidly, as I'm sure it is, the task becomes nearly impossible.

    Meanwhile, of course, they need money coming in to pay rent and make payroll for the month. The only way to do that at the moment is to produce DLCs... which takes resources away from the editor, further delaying its release. It's a classic software industry dilemma.

    This perhaps explains the lack of communication about it. What could they say, other than "It's not ready yet, but we're doing everything we can"?
     
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  19. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    I don't think anyone expects any software to be released without bugs... what people DO expect is that the bugs that make it into the release version are put on a list that, in many cases, is visible. Then, a process where these are knocked down in a reasonable and practicable amount of time. It's THAT conspicuously absent process that people complain about- not the fact that software gets released too early.
     
  20. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    When it comes to editor, what do people mean then. DTG Editor is well 3-4 thing
    1: Route editor
    2: Locomotive/ wagon Editor
    3: Scenario Editor
    4: Do own consist

    What people want most i guess is Scenario editor and make own trains. Of course we want to to routes and locomotives
    but in beginning i want to do my own trains and run them where i want.
    So i would be very glad if DTG could to this first and release it.
    Would be sad if they have problems with 1 and 2 which makes it unable to release 3-4
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  21. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    By Activity Editor do you mean Scenario Editor?
     
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  22. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Yes. excuse me. Scenario editor should it be.

    Even Quick drive in TS2019 had been good to start in TSW.
    You can do own consist and you can drive them in any route and place them what you want
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    True but that sentiment could apply to probably 50% of the posts on this forum!
     
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  24. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    When the editor does become available, the reaction to it will doubtless involve hundreds of negative posts amounting to "it's broken" from folks who haven't even tried it yet, much less read the manual. What else are these forums for?
     
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  25. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    If I didn't already know what a warm, friendly, intelligent, and sensible group of people railfans are, I certainly wouldn't get that impression of them from this forum. I have some sympathy with the DTG developers, who doubtless follow it pretty closely; it can't be very nice to come to work and find that a hundred people on the internet are saying you're an incompetent, lying idiot.
     
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  26. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    We miss updates how dovetail thinks about the Editor
    They should do as Microsoft do with there new Flight simulator https://www.flightsimulator.com/
    We need update now how Editor develops

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
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  27. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is rarely 100 people it is usually around 10 people who think they are 100 people and that everyone shares their view!
     
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  28. rftech

    rftech New Member

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    No one will force you to use any of it so what do you care?Many of us enjoy making scenarios or routes
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is stopping you making anything, I would hope you would have the decency to provide and maintain accurate links to the assets you use and make sure that if assets are no longer available that an alternative is provided. I see far too many scenario packs for sale that have items no longer available anywhere or with no links
     
  30. greggryan2

    greggryan2 New Member

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    So I've been thinking these days after days we wait around for the editor which at this stage when it's released if there are bugs and it doesn't work correctly going to be very very annoyed. But why don't they release the editor as a beta or alpha and only release the scenario creation side of things and inform people of the creation of new routes etc won't be possible just yet. it's mean we can part of an editor would expand TSW quite abit until the route building side of things is sorted.
     
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  31. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    I believe it's in closed beta right now, or something closely approximating that.
     
  32. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    No one knows at what stage the editor may be in. Any conjecture is purely just that. The last mention of any beta, closed or open, was going to be an attempt at the beginning of 2019 iirc
     
  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The last ‘proper’ news we’ve had on the editor was when Matt live-streamed him using it, which was sometime in December last year if I remember correctly.

    So it’s been 9 months since we’ve had any sort of real news on how the editor is progressing. Very poor on DTG’s part.

    ‘Available in the new year’ is what was last said although I am very doubtful we’ll see anything by the end of the year, purely due to how silent they have been about it.
     
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  34. DigitalRails

    DigitalRails Member

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    Editor was announced inSeptember 2018, one year have passed in peace. :(
     
  35. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    It will be ‘available in the new year’. Which new year they’re referring to is open to debate!
     
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  36. greggryan2

    greggryan2 New Member

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    i could bet there holding it back for a good reason but they were very broad in there release time of the editor as already mentioned but when watching the stream etc all the signs said in the NEXT year which obvs is extremely unlikely at this point.

    If there was something that could be done or put together to at least get them to announce the progression of the editor another video from matt, for example, showing what new things are in there and how to use them and what they got left to do before they release or a diary of the stage it's at for example. this unknowing and the extreme amount of waiting is doing so far is killing us all. pulling my hair out pretty much atm.
     
  37. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

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    They announced it back in 2017 and always said the release of it was very soon.

    This thing is never going to be released. Why would someone ever want to buy any of these short and rushed DLC's by DTG when there are numerous others created by true enthusiasts?
     
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  38. greggryan2

    greggryan2 New Member

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    that's the thing for me, I don't mind buying DLC etc but for me, the editor means I make my own variations of scenarios and routes and subscribe to many routes other people have made as well as scenarios. And techncially atm if people want to progress through TSW 2020 all they can do is buy DLC which means there being forced in that direction of purchase and buying. Which I don't think is right however I can understand there worry that when the editor becomes avalible people will create more things with the editor etc then buying the DLC's etc
     
  39. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think DTG is worried about loss of DLC sales from releasing an editor — for comparison, TS2020 has been going strong for over a decade and the ability for third parties to create content has not stopped DTG from continuing to create and sell their own content for the game. In fact many third party developers has opted in for the partner program and distribute via Steam and DTG’s own website thus creating another revenue stream for DTG. I am sure history will repeat itself once the editor is released for TSW2020.
     
  40. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Putting revenue aside, I’ll just be happy to receive a few user created scenarios which will hopefully feel ‘different’ to what DTG currently offers us. Dynamic events and other things can be included in scenarios which can make things more interesting, realistic and ‘alive’ compared to the very repetitive service mode we have.

    This game has a lot of potential however it is severely limited and ‘locked’ without the editor...
     
  41. greggryan2

    greggryan2 New Member

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    Personally with the amount of time they have ahd you would think that by this point you'd move the closed beta to an open beta as atm the ones involved in the closed beta are the only ones enjoying the editor and probably making things and sharing it all between them. Yet we're all sat here waiting for what they'll prob do an open beta, why not release the open beta and let us the so many people that use also give feedback and bug issues etc for them to fix. plus we all get the joy of the editor in its beta stage and also still able to contribute to the finessing of the editor and be part of that pre-period.
     
  42. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

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    Point is, theres no way in hell that it takes them +3 years to release the editor. They just simply dont want to release it for whatever reason there is.
     
  43. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    It makes no sense for them not to do an editor. The players want it and will lose interest without and third party devs want it. Dovetail will get more revenue with 3rd party devs churning out content that DTG won't touch.
     
  44. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    ...most likely because it's not finished. DTG are many things good and not so good, but one thing they're definitely not, is fast when it comes to getting things done than provide revenue indirectly at best. To be fair though, content creation for UE4 must be one hell of a task. EXTREMELY complex from the bit of reading I did on that.

    And also, that editor better be working right, that one piece of software where you definitely don't want any major bugs and glitches, so testing it all should be done right as well. Better right than fast.
     
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  45. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Should be considered that they are using the editor themselves for about 3 years now, so should be working fine overall. Sure, just not directly ready for the general public of course but whatever...

    And be aware that we are at risk by suggesting what DTG need and should do with the editor or otherwise: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/will-tsw-ever-replace-tsxx.18454/#post-96266
     
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  46. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I remember them saying they have AN editor, but not THE editor.
    ...using AN editor. Not necessarily THE editor.
     
  47. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    The key point to remember is that DTG are able to use a modified version of the UE4 editor with uncooked assets whereas we will have to use an editor that has been further modified so that it can handle cooked assets.

    Matt has been pretty clear in the streams and various articles that the main sticking point has been ensuring that the editor we'll get can handle as wide a range of cooked assets as possible not to mention being able to add additional timetable layers if possible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
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  48. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Since 1 year time or so by now, yes. ;)
     
  49. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    I think it so bad of dovetail to do this. This editor should be out when TSW released. 16 March 2017
    One year ago they tell us about this editor , Last we heard from it was spring. Then Silent.
    I really hope Microsoft start to to a new train simulator ( they do a new flight simulator now )
    so Dovetail gets increased pressure to come out with it.
    We even wait on multiplayer they promise to do
     
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  50. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Overall I think UE4 was a very bad choice considering the amount of effort needed to tweak things and make an editor available for all - and looking at the video a while back on how to create scenario's, dear god, looks a total nightmare! and we won't able to edit DTG routes IIRC
     

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