Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 3 Year Anniversary

ATS' filter is awful. For some reason it's based on real-life route rather than TSC route, so e.g. there's no way to filter for WCMLS scenarios only.

 

I have WCML North, South, Trent Valley, and WCML over Shap on TSC. So you are saying I have more content for this Route than TSW5 will ever have?

 

there’s actually a free version of tsw 5 you can get to buy dlcs in the future without having to buy the game

 

Or unionise

 

Yes, but that's simply because of time. WCML North and Over Shap were in the very early days of TS, Trent Valley was 2014-ish and WCMLS was a few years ago (although the UKTS version has been around for quite a bit longer). TSW will in theory get to the amount of content that TS has (assuming they allow editor routes and scenarios to be exported) but it will take years. And I must say that we're seven years into TSW's life and compared to TS in 2014 there's a lot less on offer.

If the free version was available permanently I would be completely happy with it - other than it being a limited time offer for some reason it's pretty much what I'd wanted from a free version.

 

I have posted many times with the history of Train simming since MSTS, that came with very long routes which had issues but certainly couldn't complain over what was with the initial sim. Then comes Railworks, everything is a bit less in size than MSTS but still some decent routes. Now on TSW routes such as Glasgow to Edinburgh don't even bother putting the line via Falkirk Grahamston in with excuses that it's hard to do.

This new WCML route is causing some negative vibes but ultimately the only thing DTG will worry about is the day one to thirty sales and providing enough folk stump up the cash then all the negative chatter will just echo. Many may remember the TSC version of WCML south. Had a few issues didn't it.....

 

I personally think TSC with the right add-ons looks as good as TSW now, certainly the weathering and shading is better, and the lighting is miles better. I also prefer the level of clutter and detail. Before RW Enhancer arrived on the scene TSC was stuttery and the scenery uninspiring, not the case these days. TSC has every train on every relevant route, even without a sale the routes are much cheaper. It's a no brainer for me to concentrate on that game from here on, and just top up my TSW with routes I want in heavy sales. The only thing missing from TSC was the timetable mode, but now TSW are cutting back a lot on timetable runs, (like devastating the WCML one) that point has become moot. TSC has the workshop which means you can literally never run out of content. If DTG ever revert to charging for core updates again, then I shall gladly wait a year, whilst driving locos/units that aren't in TSW and probably never will be.

 

I have found in TSC that well put together quick drives are a decent substitute for timetable mode. QD falls down on its insistence that the player train always has priority and that some QD consists have massively inaccurate dates put in. Have been working on large QD for the West Highland merge route which is a joy to drive, Orange EMUs popping up at junctions and even the West Highland stations getting random meets. Far more fun than a scenario that is scripted and I can jump in for an evening drive or daytime by adjusting the clock in the UI.

 

While I do most gaming on console these days, I simply don't bother with mods for the most part on PC games. ETS is what broke me here, and specifically ProMods. Its fantastic, and the effort that goes into it is phenomenal, but their utterly anal mandatory download system and refusal to use Steam Workshop has meant me abandoning it entirely for both ETS and ATS. For TSC I run it entirely vanilla since its sometimes a ballache getting it running on Steam Deck in this state, never mind with mods. Don't own TSW on PC since my spend goes on the PS5 version

 

TBH the only mods I've ever added to TSC are RW Enhancer 2 and the Wherry Lines mod for Norfolk from Alan Thompson which transforms that route. The payware RW Enhancer was the big one as it launched TS into current graphics and banished the stutters for good. I know steam workshop can be a bit frustrating, only yesterday a scenario I'd downloaded days ago finally decided to pop up in the menu!

 

Oh I have no issues with Workshop at a general level, but I'm so over trying to fix issues when mods from any source break due to an update (which I believe plagues TSW somewhat), as I spend more time on said fix attempts than playing the game. On top of that, Steam deck doesn't exactly lend itself well to trying to fix things that run on Proton/Wine as often it turns out these are either causing or contributing to issues. Proton is getting better and runs unmodded stuff largely with no issues, but my days of fighting with it re mods are pretty much over (The ETS stuff I mentioned was back in my Windows days, not even going to attempt Promods on the deck)

 

Agree about ProMods. I loved some of the areas particularly the north and getting over to Iceland and the Faroes. But it became too much of a chore, every time SCS made a small update, ProMods broke so you had to wait around for it to be fixed then redownload and swap out the old version. Then finding two weeks later having to do the same again.

 

WCML Over Shap was early 2014; that's four and a half years into TSC's life. Personally I don't consider that the very early days...

 

but TSW has walkable cab, making it easier to jump back (you dont have to remember keys or key combinations, most of the time, you just find stuff around the cab) and TIMETABLE... TS has quick drive and scenarios, and adios ... so I still prefer TSW... it is opening up gradually, before long we will have Wales and Netherlands in the game

 

I don't want to walk around the cab particularly (drivers don't IRL) or jog up the track if I'm honest, I just drove a couple of hours in a Pendo from Euston to Birmingham making several stops on way in TSC, that's what I want to do. Drop the gimmicks and give us a decent length route for fast trains please.

 

If you want to level a specific criticism at DTG for me it has to be everything they do is rushed. I don't know who is responsible for this but I guess higher management, but Matt is an executive producer so I don't know who is above him? Everything is done too fast to a release date which appears to be set in cement. This results in corners cut, vanishing timetables, shrunken routes and everything else you can see in that stream. If they are going to concentrate on fast zoomy trains for the fans of that type, then please extend the route to make it worth playing. If not don't build a Pendo just to make a cash grab without thinking where it can run properly to the customers satisfaction. Euston to MK is great for the 710 (Watford Jct.) and 350, but NOT a high speed train.

 

[If you don't believe Rivet had a significant hand in WCML, ignore this post]

It was shocking for me that DTG would hand over significant parts of the route building and timetable to Rivet for WCML. It's a flagship route, the most requested in the game by DTG's admission, and the quality of the timetable was always going to make or break the product given how busy the real-life route is.

Who signed off on outsourcing the route (or at least the timetable) in that way? Sorry to say but the person or people involved simply did not think adequately through what implications this particular bit of outsourcing would have for the final product.

Very worrying when I thought we had left that kind of thing behind - DTG's in-house TSW4 content was generally of an excellent standard, particularly compared to previous years. Why take the flak for a substandard Rivet product now?

 

Well they want to get paid for their work..

 

Give them 1 Euro via Paypal and you'll get the one file highspeed download.

A huge project like this is likely better maintanable via your own servers than pushing updates to Steam. They'll have their reasons. Download, throw the files in the mod folder and you're set up.

I'm usually waiting for ProMods to finish their updates before updating ETS2. I couldn't play without - especially the UK and Scandinavia are awesome in Promods.

 

Absolutely they should be paid for their work if one wants to, no disagreement there. The last time I used Promods there was a paid option, but at the time it still used the exact same download system in place for the leechers, except that you were permitted concurrent downloads and no speed cap (this is a long time ago, probably pre-Covid I'd say). I'm glad its improved by the sounds of it, but unless and until they make it a one-click download on Steam Workshop so that it can easily be used on the Deck, I won't be revisiting it, no matter its quality

 

Well, your loss then.

 

But oh no DTG don’t have the dev time for that /s

 

Just find it so funny and a bit weird that 5 games in asking for a route to run to rugby is asking for too much and people on here just accept it. JT are way smaller than DTG and chunk out a 100 mile route

 

I will only say that the DTG route has almost 3x the stations and is a lot of city area, which can be a huge difference on development route length and all. I do agree though if DTG route builders were not being forced to get the route out in time for TSW5 we probably could get a bit of a longer route...

 

There are only two stations between MKC and rugby btw.

 

So basically you just completely and totally missed the point.

The extra stations take up the development and budget where it could instead be put into extra route length instead.
Why do you think ECML was 80 miles and not only 50?
And that's without mentioning to Rugby its another 30 miles, the same length of some TSW routes.

 

I think the reason overshap is even achievable is

A. It’s mostly very dense countryside scenery with not much buildings around, as it goes over the Lake District

B. I think there is only about 13 stations on this route. Not as much as for say WCML S.


if overshap had more challenging scenery with more buildings, it would definitely be shorter than it actually is.


But yeah, I see what you mean. I’m getting a bit bored of DTG going routes less than 60 miles sometimes. More 70+ mile routes are definitely needed.

 

Thank you!!! It’s a shame that DTG still do this at this day and age. And people constantly lap it up it’s like we are 5 games in and a route longer than 60 miles is “asking for too much”

 

I'd have thought that after 7 years, we'd be past the point where minimal distance is the norm.

 

I make it 8 stations,

Preston
Lancaster
Bare Lane
Morecambe
Carnforth
Oxenholme
Penrith
Carlisle

Preston and Carlisle are big stations. Morecambe also if its done right is very much bigger than today's terminus. But yes very open on the remainder. The Lune Gorge is spectacular so hopefully it's done justice to.

 

It's the executives at Focus Entertainment. Regardless of Matt (I think it was) saying that Focus are leaving them to their own devices, I've never known release dates and ultimate product control not being in the hands of the publisher. Especially release dates.

It shouldn't be too much concern so long as issues are patched quickly. But new suspension was a core feature of TSW 4, and here we are still... Etc.

 

I’m convinced what we were told was, well, the party line for public consumption. Behind the scenes I suspect Focus are very much in the driving seat and no doubt getting costs down at the top of the list. Which is why the TSW5 WCML route (probably) outsourced to Rivet as the lowest bidder and the only programming talent they could muster for the core changes, made a couple of cosmetic and insubstantial alterations.

 

Possibly, but only with general strategy not hands on I doubt, they have too many other things to do. Of course it suits DTG to have people think that whilst they smooth talk us with their PR machine and groom us for the next dlc.

 

WCML on TSW5 is way too short for a Pendo run, nothing but an excuse to sell it to the masses. Answer is to fire up TSC and drive from London to Birmingham the way it should be. Thank goodness for that simulator and the good old days. Nothing can beat it.

 

Yeah. Since switching to Linux I abandoned all the TSC mods that either use external executable or executable installers, instead of simple archives I'm either able to install with TSC utilities (via Steam Tinker Launch) or extract directly into the game's directory.

As for ETS2 ProMods, I've been stuck with an old version for a couple of years, as I don't have all the required map DLCs (since Iberia onward), but also I haven't launched ETS2 since December (and ATS for more than a year), so it doesn't matter much whether I have either the newest version of the game, or play with ProMods on the old version.

Mods in TSW are simple to use, as that's just extracting or copying pak files into the game's directory, like in plenty of other games, that only require extracting the stuff into their directories.

 

You just cant beat TSC.

 

Well yeah I agree, I said in my post above that if DTG route builders were not being forced so much by time constraints because of TSW5 we probably could get a longer than minimal distance route. I'm not trying to defend it in any kind of way because, well, It's not good enough but that's the reality of it. I just try to understand the reasoning being things, and 28 stations is a lot but yous just seem to be glossing over that fact.

 

No one's glossing over anything, we just expect more from 7 year old game.

Short routes were acceptable at the start, but now they are just laughable.

 

28 stations is brilliant for the 350 and 710 (to Watford Jct.) But when it comes to the 390 it's a bit of a joke in all honesty. Such a shame to give such an iconic unit no stops to MK (excepting the odd service that stops at WJ). It's a difficult one for DTG because it's going to be a top seller but they almost need an extension such as from MK to B-ham (1 hr 24 mins) just for the Pendo, or it's going to be a bit frustrating driving them.

 

Sorry but I don't really buy into the time constraints excuse. This is supposedly a professional software house and even at the whiteboard stage a timeline for project production should be sketched out. If it can't be done, then move on and do something else. The people DTG employ, whether in house or sub contracted, are one would hope chosen for proven skills in building routes, assets and all the paraphenalia that goes with it, not like me sitting down in front of the TSW_UE editor and going, "Oh gawd, where do I begin?" These people should be consumate experts now, even at outfits like Rivet.

Obviously hitches and snags can occur but that's why you build a bit of slack into the schedule.

It absolutely gobsmacks me that here we are, just over a week from early access and it doesn't look as if any of the content has been declared gold, yet.

 

Just don't buy the route then and vote with your wallet, its as simple as that.

 

Here's hoping the German route is of a better quality, don't really care too much TBH about the US commuter effort (Antelope II). Still hanging to to the Deluxe purchase, but have the option to bail at the last minute depending upon DTG showing some integrity.

 

Most of the “built up part” of the route is done by MKC. But idk I just find it a bit appaling that asking for rugby is seen as too much

the most painful thing is that the pendolino is genuinely the best UK train DTG have made since they released the 465 loco dlc and we only get at most 40 mins runtime

 

Not really, the sounds are pretty bad.

 

In terms of modelling and tbf apart from run sounds the pendo pretty much is really good

 

I'm starting to wonder whether this was a missed opportunity for a 'route extension', the 350 only going to Milton Keynes makes a lot of sense, but I would have happily then paid the price of a full route to get the 390 and extension to Rugby.

 

*yawn emoji*

 

I would have been more than happy to pay more for a longer route and better timetable but oh well. It really is a shame the route ends at Milton Keynes

 

Exactly, most of us would be willing to pay for the extra work taking the route at least to Rugby. I'd hand over 50 quid for a "super route" to Brum no worries. They should consider that sort of thing as an option a Pro Route maybe.