Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 3 Year Anniversary

I did try but am fairly confident (actually, certain) that unless the box is ticked in the editor the ini tweaks re volumetric fog do nothing.

I’m now wondering what other tick boxes and plug-ins already exist in UE4 that will be activated for TSW5. We know that DX12 and DLSS is built into the engine and very simple to implement. My money is on that.

 

seems like the flickering of upper lines
What a nice feature. We definitely need to buy a new game for that

 

Agree with ya bud. I aint buying any more its a joke now. No need for it. £40 for 3 trains, which could have been dlc and the core stuff could have been updates for tsw3. But nope nice and shiny new tsw4, but from what i seen on the live stream, the graphics look the same, so hardly a new game is it. Tut tut

 

Perhaps they need setting up as an alternative explanation. Turning on ray tracing does something, but isn't properly implemented yet. That said it does improve the game's colouring so I'd actually recommend keeping it on.

 

Same with -DX12, works, gives better performance, but it is still not finally implemented. Even not with TSW4 - joke!

 

You really never played F1 games. We get new liveries every year and If we are lucky there is a new track in the championship that year we get a new track. I'm still waiting for any changes to My Team mode for years now. We got useless stuff like headphones and caps that cost almost as much as a route in TSW.

 

Here’s the thing.

I have zero problem with DTG rebranding this game every year. If it drives sales and makes the product viable then great. Do it.

I also have zero problem with them bundling routes as part of that rebrand and offering various packages to tempt people to buy them. Equally great, and brill for new players or existing users looking for a bargain.

What I have an issue with is them putting the core of the game, that we all already own and have paid for at least three (or is it four?) times over now behind yet another paywall. Make no mistake, what you are buying here is the EXACT same game you already own. The new features are almost all small, either tick boxes or updates to elements that have been promised to be coming since TSW2. Only the 2.0 versions of the Creators stuff are actually game specific, everything else is route or loco specific and do not apply game wide. Some of the features don’t even ship at launch.

Moreover, I’m particularly hacked off that the Just Trains route that I have been looking forward to for a long long time is now going to cost me an absolute minimum of £60 to purchase. If I don’t pony up for TSW4 the only option I have is wait until a few weeks before TSW5 is announced and hope to pick it up in a Humble Bundle for next to nothing or walk away from the game. That cannot be right, and it is a disgusting way to treat people who, my my case, have already spent thousands of pounds buying DTG’s software.

 

Can I like comments more than once?

 

Just wanted to add something regarding the whole theme of this thread. I think one of the reasons people are unhappy is that they feel they're being priced out of something they like. i obviously don't know the circumstances of people in this thread, but the cost of living in the UK (which I imagine is a very large chunk of the playerbase) is meaning people do not have the money to spend on hobbies like they used to. I do think it is understandable to be upset over DTG's apparent decision to release a new game every 1/2 years as the DLC for this game is already quite expensive in comparison to what you get in other games (the price of full DLC is £30 compared to £25 not too long ago, that's quite a large percent increase). However, from a business perspective, releasing a new game every year makes perfect sense so you can't really blame them.

 

That's great actually.
I don't remember if I actually wrote it out here before or not, but it was actually implemented, I was always hoping they would release the Academy Center to serve as a free demo. They still could.

Also, very true about the outdated stuff.
I would also have been more okay with it if they actually updated old stuff to be actually mostly in-line with the new stuff, especially feature wise, with new content, before focussing on new version releases.

 

Can't really argue with any of that, UNLESS DTG say, we could not do that because of...This or this or that or that.
Again, players just want clarity. Those that have an education understand its a business, and that a business needs to make money, but there is a tipping point for everyone. Your point about the JT route is very valid.
I would wait for a big sale or, as I did last year, get it from elsewhere. And before anyone jumps in, I mean CD Keys, Fanatical etc.
I was not going to upgrade from 2 to 3. But if memory serves me I got the deluxe edition for around £20. Makes the pill much easier to swallow. (Unless you are on console)

 

That's to some degree part of it, sure. Speaking from myself, I'm just a little minimum wage servant unfortunately with no real perspective of any kind of improvement in the foreseeable future or even to have my own place to live, after having been screwed out of being able to a job that I actually like. So for me TSW (and Flight Sim) is an escape from a very cruel world.

But the largest part of the problem is that there really is no reason this should've been a rerelease.
Yes, from a business perspective it could make sense to release a new game every year, but if you're gonna do that, AT LEAST make sure the new product actually feels like it's justified by overhauling the experience enough. If not, it just feels like a needless cashgrab to keep basic support for a product that's already expensive in the first place, yet is still full of bugs that are left unaddressed and unfixed.

 

To elaborate on my feelings on this a little bit. Apologies for double posting.

I gladly pay for content I actually want, even if money is tight. Those idiots who keep going "The haters just want stuff for free" don't know what they're talking about.

And I also will acknowledge that in terms of raw value, it's a great deal! 3 routes for the price of 1? +2 extra locomotives and a remastered route for only the price of a single locomotive extra? That sounds like incredible value!

Here's the problem though. While I'm not saying they're not good. I barely care about any of these routes or locos, but I'm still going to have to get it just to keep support for the game.
It'd be a great deal if the routes and locos included where things I'm interested in, but they're reall not.

Basically, if I see something I like in the future and would gladly pay for, I'm first going to have to pay for content I really don't care for anything other than trying it out for the novelty of it, on a game I already own, just so I can pay AGAIN, for the content I actually want.
That just feels like they're keeping future content hostage, I'm sorry.

 

I agree with you. TSC operated with a free upgrade to the new version every year from like 2009. Adopting the FIFA model is not a good look.

 

Hello everyone,

just thought I would throw my two cents in here, as someone, who has played TS Classic since 2014 and found TSW only to appealing from last year onwards.
Allthough I owned TSW 1 and TSW 2020 and some DLC, that I picked up real cheap in the sales (they sometimes had stuff 80% off), I had like 5 hours of playing up until last year. TSW 3 really brought me on board because of TOD 4 and new weather. I just did not like the optics of the game in the years before.
I watched the entire livestream yesterday and ordered the deluxe edition. I think the price of 48 Euros is great for 3 new routes (two of them not beeing what I was hoping for!), 2 new locos, a revisisted Dresden-Riesa and a bunch of new features like the editor and free roam. Yes, all these things should have happenend years ago, we all know that.. But I´m glad it´s finally happening and I´m really hyped for the future of Train Sim World and everything that will be coming to creators club from people mocking about with the editor. Also the upcoming Just Trains route looks amazing!

Alan Thomson did a really interesting 7 hour twich yesterday and if I understood correctly, he had some DTG people on stream talkling about bugfixing. The preserved crew has disbanded and it was claimed that no matter how much fixing they did, people would just keep finding more and more small bugs and never stop complaining. They would just never find a end to the whole thing. I can fully understand that side of things and I´m not bothered about "old content" from TSW 1 or TSW 2020. I have all installed for layering, but I don´t use the routes because they don´t have TOD 4... just as I don´t use 2010 routes on Train Sim Classic anymore. It´s just the evolution of time and peoplen complaning about TSW 2 fixes is getting a little pathetic at this point.
What do you guys want? TSW just beeing like 5 years ago forver with the shitty old skydome and new DLC over and over? I´m glad it´s evolving.

 

I do play F1 games, I don't buy them every year though. I've tried a few of the Codemasters games (including the weird Wii-exclusive F1 2009) although admittedly I prefer the Studio Liverpool games, particularly F1 05 and Championship Edition

Either way, a new season of F1 is a much better justification for a new game than DTG wanting a cash injection, especially when there are changes to the regulations - although that does mean that, like F1 itself, the games have got less fun over time.

 

I notice you do play the F1 games. My apologies as you even know the good times. I'm a sucker for those games. I buy every iteration and then go moaning on their forum their were not enough changes

But be honest, you really think EA gives you bang for your bucks the last two years?

 

No, I don't. I was annoyed when they got rid of the classic cars after F1 2021; so for me that's my go-to modern F1 game since it has the team mode as well. I do like the experimentation they have though, like with the regular cars and the story mode, even if neither are that good.

It's a similar story with TSW. I like it when they try something new, like the trainspotting and guard scenarios on the Glossop Line. It's why I loved GWE, every scenario had something interesting going on, but I think I'm veering off topic now.

 

I would have bought that.

 

This is why I'm back to playing TSW2 - I do miss a couple Routes from 3 (Birmingham Cross City and Peak Forest) but I can live with it; and live without the drama on Midland Main Line (the first disappointment of 2023 really) and now the new paywall. Playing TSW2 reminds me of the days when there was openness, creativity, etc.

 

Except it’s not. I’m getting three routes that I didn’t already have, for a 60% discount from full retail price.

I fully appreciate that for someone who doesn’t want the new routes, this business model is deeply unfair. It’s unfortunate and short sighted and a prime example of how the diverging interests of consumers and venture capital lead to progressively worse product and service. (Read Cory Doctorow’s work on this, he’s a brilliant critic of what he calls the “ensh**tification” of the internet.) Reddit, for example, was essentially nuked from within a few months ago when third party apps were shut down. Same thing with Twitter. They knew exactly what would happen and they didn’t care because we simply don’t matter anymore.

There’s a game I like to play on my phone where your “lives” are restored over time but could be accelerated by choosing to watch an ad. Last week the choice went away and everyone now gets ads. And Flo from Progressive is now one of the avatars. There was no improvement whatsoever to the product, the experience simply got worse.

I’m sticking around because they gave me a carrot to do so in the form of cheap new content. But we all have to eat the same carrot now.

 

i make it short
for 48€ (deluxe) 3 new routes and 2 locos and the new features isnt bad and what i find fair.
so no way i would miss this .

cheers

 

Since nobody asked for my opinion, I'm gonna post it anyway.

I so totally agree with almost all the rant here and believe me, I could add a ton of my own. What I am most disappointed with are long term bugs in older content that go totally ignored. Like services not able to start (Baby bullet cab car), services not able to be finished (e.g. #2519 M3A Harlem line) or gold medals that cannot be obtained (e.g. Diesel legends of the great western), all passengers disembarking my train as soon as I open the door when the service starts & driving a train full of pasangers into / out of depot. On NY - Trenton route there was a bug when the ATC kept you at 45 mph for like 12-15 miles mid route. Has that been fixed?
This disappointment gets boosted up with many many promises of fixing this stuff, that never get fulfilled and therefore are viewed by me and some others as lies.

As many of people here got angry by TSW4 release, I was in the same place a year and therefore did not buy TSW and played it via gamepass instead.
To put things into perspective: I own almost all DLCs prior to TSW3 release and Trenton + Acela from the TSW3 era. I have played 1300+ hrs of TSW2 and 330 hrs of TSW3.

Now I'm faced with the option to either pay the price of one route and get three routes instead or stop playing TSW altogether. I cannot be bothered with the other two editions as I already own all those routes except Linke Rammsteinstrecke.
That's not a bad choice, I'll try the new three routes and hopefully I'll have some fun with them.

 

I think that in the end most people do agree, that this is not a bad choice. I can't argue against "I get three new routes for the price of one" or of one and a half + new features.

The points you mentioned before are the problem. In the end people buy TSW4 also with a bit of "hope", hope to get finally adressed issues you have mentioned before. And here is the point of letdown from DTG - bascially saying "You want the chance of getting your content fixed? OK no problem buy TSW4 - we MAY fix your year old problems or not. But if you don't buy TSW4 you will never see those fixes". And this is for content we paid for and would have expected to be fixed or wouldn't have been released as the buggy mess they are in some instances.

 

That's the spirit!

 

I feel you. I kinda lost this hope. When Matt and/or JD talk about bug fixes, I simply laugh and don't believe them a single word. How long are you guys playing this game and watching DTG streams? I particularly remember Matt in a stream a year ago speaking about fixing the save game issue once and for all and also about fixing all the dispatching problems and red light issues. Now I haven't played TSW for almost half a year now, so you guys tell me: have those things been properly fixed once and for all? I bet they weren't.

What I plan on doing is simply play content that works, do some workarounds with partially working content and have my fun with trains for a while.

 

Save game certainly hasn’t.

 

But! Recently we received an update for Horseshoe curve adding an image to the "load saved game" tile, so that has to count for something, right?

 

Exactly.
I went along from TSW2020 to TSW2 because it actually improved gameplay, even though it meant letting go of NEC: New York. But TSW2020 had been around for a while, and as I mentioned, TSW2 did genuinely improve on things.
TSW3 I didn't quite like because TSW2 wasn't that old yet, and we'd just gotten Rush Hour, but I put up with it under the impression, just as you said, that it'd be fix for the bugridden mess that was TSW2, and that this would be the final switch for at least a while.
At least until there was enough room with the advancement of tech that the next release would be the generation of Train Sim World like a proper sequel game.
Like what Xplane-12 is to Xplane-11. Still clearly the same line of games, with the same personality, but with clear clear improvements, truly a next step in the X-plane series.

But no, instead TSW3 has not even turned 1 yet and we're already moving on to the next game which is basically the same game with a extra features, some pretty good, but still with very few actual improvements to the train driving experience.
It's not a different game, whereas to compare it again to Xplane. Even though it does have backwards compatibility as well with some older aircraft, they are NOT the same experience.

 

Since CSX, but I will not stop complaining about this. Playing the happy customer doesn't help as well.

 

The way I see it is that there are no game-breaking bugs in the legacy titles (TSW3, TSW2 etc) and DLC and therefore they are now considered complete and do not need any further 'updates'. DTG may, at their discretion; update older DLC to TSW4 standard in future and you are quite welcome to continue enjoying them at TSW3 standard but you are not entitled to TSW4 stardard if you don't pay for the work that has gone into it.

We have seen this before though. A small but vocal minority throwing their toys out of the pram when they don't get their own way but we all know they will still buy it and they will still be here in 12 months time to go through it all again.

I wouldn't pick this particular model myself but DTG have all the numbers and know what they are doing. This is what it is so get used to it.

I am looking forward to the new content and features. Bring on 21st September!

 

No one is saying that DTG doesn't have the right to do this. It's just unethical.

TSW3 is definitely not free of bugs yet. If you think it is, I'd like to challenge you to go find the timetables for the Baby Bullet cab car. Or go and try and find services through the trains instead of routes where occasionally it messes up which routes it's available on. Or the fact that the game thinks for some reason it can use the BR110 from Bremen Oldenburg on dostos despite the connection between loc and wagons not really working there.

The advances from TSW3 to TSW4 aren't near enough to justify a jump to a new game, and even if it were. TSW3 is still not nearly free of bugs.

To summarize, DTG has for me and for a lot of others definitely broken my trust and it's gonna take a lot of transparency and preferably a pledge to at least stick to TSW4 long enough to have it free of bugs and to have an actual jump in quality to the simulation experience before even thinking of starting development on TSW5.

That's not a good thing, and you can only betray the trust of your community for so many times before it starts coming back to bite you in the rear.
Do not take these sounds of disapproval lightly. Trust is easily broken, but difficult to restore.
DTG's main saving grace is that there is no true competitor currently for a dissatisfied audience to jump ship to. So they can get away with it.

To reiterate. I love TSW, and I love DTG, but currently I'm feeling hurt by them and their lack of transparency and in what seems like a lack of concern for their fanbase.

 

But honestly you seem to be missing the point, people aren't asking for things to be made free (routes/locos), there is simply and absolutely no need for a new game to be released when there has been no major updates to the game engine compared to TSW3 these basic core updates should be given to everyone so you're not forced to buy the base game over and over. Why can't there be a core update which keeps all players new and old on the same version and then release route/loco bundles along side it... It works perfectly fine for TSC so why not TSW? Not only that as others have said DTG have broken peoples trust with lying about things and making empty promises to get things done. For example, what about the preserved route updates DTG promised for TSW2 owners? It's been a year now and still no updates, when you ask you're giving a BS excuse.

 

Unless it's really cheap in a sale I'm out, In today's cost of living crisis or is it the cost of greed crisis whether it's energy bills,food bills etc this amount of disposable income to play a game I love is out of the question.

 

£25-£30 is too much? So you never buy any routes?

 

For myself, I don't approve of DTG taking this marketing approach, as opposed to the Rush Hour/TSC model where the core upgrade was free, but only newer routes would take advantage of the new features. However, I can also understand, if not like, the business case for doing it this way- but surely on a 2-year cycle with much more substantial core upgrade? As I see it, "TSW4" is really just TSW2.8. While the upgrades to peripheral features are nice to have, there is almost nothing here which improves the core experience of driving trains (except for the flexible HUD- but that surely is not a New Game-level improvement)

And I can understand, and even support, the decision going forward only to upgrade/fix the TSW4 versions of legacy content; trying simultaneously to maintain different versions of the same DLC would be a recipe for madness. (However, while this was the logical course and the one DTG took wrt TSW2 upgrades, I really, really disapprove of the fact that DTG simply lied to us about them, and maintained the hoax right up until two months ago. This is not the way to build customer relations or brand reputation)

But I do recall that TSW 2020 was a free upgrade for TSW1 owners, and that when TSW2 came out as a paid upgrade, Sam was on stream apologizing profusely, saying "We really didn't want to charge for it, but we couldn't make the books balance." And then Rush Hour came out as a free upgrade.

But with 3 last year and now 4, no apology, no hint of remorse, just blatant plugs for how much it's going to cost us. That's a little unappetizing.

 

You must admit, that amongst us there are going to be people who really need to decide, food or game and that they choose carefully which content they buy. That does not mean, they don't buy, but only, when it is attractiv and affordable.

 

Of course there are going to be people that need to decide. But if you're in that kind of financial situation, new routes or a new version is irrelevant as you have more important things that are required. Nobody is losing access to stuff they have already bought, it all still works.

 

Please let me explain the core of the problem in the simplest way I can.
In terms of raw value it's a great deal. You're getting 3 routes for the price of 1, and for the additional price of a single loco, you're getting 2 extra locs and a remastered route.
However, if you're not interested in any of these specific routes, than this is just a mandetory paywall in order to retain a properly supported product and keep hope of finally having major bugs fixed.

To the group that is not interested in the specific new add-ons, this deal feels very coercive no matter how great of a deal it would otherwise be.

 

And again you are missing the point. It is, at least for me, not about the money. It is about future access to new content and update. To gain that everybody HAS to buy TSW4 with a route. For some none of the routes are attractive, but we would like to have the access to the updates. Now given there might be the possibility for an TSW4 Upgrade in the future with another route, as it stands NOW, you shouldn't bet on that. Now, tell me again, that this is acceptable.

 

What I think does not do DTG any favours, especially with hardcare fans like those in this forum, is that they present themselves quite corporately (pretty much all companies do this; it is a big problem imo). For example, if in the DTG Direct yesterday they said to people: "look, we understand some may be unhappy about how we're releasing TSW4 not long after TSW3, but we're a business and we've all got staff wages to pay", I think that would have gone down better. I'm not saying they should go all informal like the RyanAir Twitter account, I just think some more openness would be welcome.

 

Acceptable or not, it's what DTG have done for the last two versions. It was obviously what they were going to do for this version.
They've shown no intention of changing it.
Should they make the core constantly updated for everyone like TSC? Yes.
But they're not going to do that, and I'm sure they have a reason beyond simple greed.

If they are unable to merge versions for some reason, it's a simple truth that it becomes extremely difficult to manage multiple code bases that have slight differences.

 

They have got to be joking. Have they brainwashed some of the people on this thread? Because no one in their right mind should buy this! I get DTG have bills to pay, but purchasing this game will only convince them this is the way ahead and they’ll continue to release such scams. To think that they are going to ignore the glaring bugs that have plagued this series since TSW2020, and release a new game not even a full year after the last one came out with no major improvements for the same price is atrocious. This should just be an update to the existing game like Rush Hour for TSW2; we only got one steam loco in TSW3, and 13 (expensive) routes, which, is simply not good enough. If they go ahead with this release and turn into a series worse than FIFA (at least that isn’t full to the brim with glitches) I think I will just leave this series as a whole and ditch train sims, because I’m not paying full price for the same glitchy ol’ game just for the empty hope that it will improve. Either they can cancel development, give a LARGE discount to owners of TSW3 (for putting up with their bs) or I say we boycott.

 

You start by saying you don't want anything for free and end by saying why not make core updates free like TSC.

 

Ok?
I can see that that is what they have done yes. That does not mean we just have to take it without voicing our severe disagreements.

I am well aware that no matter the noise I or anyone make on this, at least for this instance, the decision has already been made and there is no going back on it.
But if we just take it and bow our heads and just accept things, they'll just continue like this.

I want an apology from them.
I want transparency from them.
I want them to understand and acknowledge what they've done.
And preferably I want them to either pledge to stick to TSW4 till it's an actually complete product and only move to TSW5 when it's an actual jump to a proper new driving experience, and if not have them be very much upfront on what they're going to do.

That is what I want.
And I will make noise about it.

 

If I wasn't interested in any of the new routes, I wouldn't buy TSW4 either. Why would I, indeed. Seeing as the core updates aren't really all that earth shattering, I would simply stick to playing TSW3 and wait for a route to come out that could coax me over to TSW4, which by then would probably have a nice discount.

I do agree that it is very sad that TSW4 coming out means TSW3 will not receive updates anymore, after only one year. F1 Manager was supported for only a couple of months, mind you, but still, it is a worrying trend. It probably also means that the old routes won't receive patches in TSW4 either, and that's just an enormous pity.

 

I'd say you have zero chance of that happening. But I wish you good luck in your endevour.
I do agree that the core upgrade should be free, but they aren't doing that. Unfortunately, it's likely not going to affect enough people for it to be a massive issue, but you never know.

 

I find it peculiar that a lot of people insist on ditching gen8 and when you argue that a console costs a lot of money for some people, its deemed irrelevant but a yearly paid update is unacceptable because people will need to choose between food and a game?

People not wanting to pay for game updates are holding us back (sarcasm)

 

Paywalling core updates in game is not common practice, no. Sorry. Hate to break it to you.

 

Bit disappointed about the add-on matrix.

No further improvements on existing (late) TSW2 routes like DRA and BML.

Vectron only available for TSW4 and not TSW3.

What happened to "preservation crew" and stuff?