Enough Is Enough Thomas And Friends Edition

Yet you choose the game that has much less depth because of its looks? I agree it is pretty.
You support my point when you think about it; timetable mode from A to B but very pretty graphics to look at and very easy to drive.
TSC does beat TSW with freight hands down every time. Longer and real challenges. What has happened to US freight here? Sales figures maybe because it’s so bland to drive.
As for TSC scenarios my reply is simple:
1. Workshop
2. Editor
I know which game has made me work much harder for my scores with no hand holding like I’m a kid.

 

I don't support your point at all, I have thought about it, if I did I wouldn't have responded, I would have pressed the tick.

I don't care about scores and take no notice of them.

 

I agree the timetable mode and for me its the physics I notice the most when playing TSC.

TSW is better product in my mind.

And I don't give 2 hoots about points, trophies and acheivements either and do not pay attention to them.

 

This tends to be my view of TSC, plus of course there are routes like Maerdy or the New Zealand one which will never see the light of day in TSW. And of course steam traction.

But I recently did another massive triage of my TSC, with the game occupying nearly 500Gb of HD space and many routes I will probably never touch again. Despite the flaws, there’s something about TSW that just draws you in.

And the biggest irritation of TSC is either the Standard scenarios where you are a minute or two late and fail the objective which then fails the whole run. Or the Career scenarios where the author failed to modify the scoring parameters so being a minute or two late costs you 3000 points, albeit you still pass the objective. Even though scoring doesn’t bother me, it still rankles my OCD. Also, yes we have the editors, but not a five minute job to set up a scenario and quick drive doesn’t allow you to define a timetable.

There’s also the very real danger that DTG are no longer actively supporting TSC in terms of further core development and it will quickly become a legacy product.

 

Basically, I don't care about a Thomas DLC, even though I really enjoyed the series (not the newer one with GCI) as a child. In my opinion, that's not something you absolutely need in a more or less realistic simulation. It wouldn't bother me either, BUT:

Resources are being used here that should be used much more urgently elsewhere. For example, for urgently needed optimizations and bug fixes. Here, they're silent. And (almost) nothing will happen, as always.

It seems strange when your "New Year's resolution" is to be more Thomas? So that's your resolution for 2025? Wow! How should I interpret this?



What's next? Will TSW now be squeezed with pointless licenses like Lego? Ultimately, they only put their energy into expensive licenses and the quality suffers more and more as a result. But it doesn't seem to matter because the money keeps rolling in. I don't like this development and don't want it for TSW.

Apart from that, it hasn't been done very well so far. A few 3D models are simply placed on an existing (rather boring) track. That seems like the usual lack of love, sorry.

If they were serious about it, they would have had to either design a completely new map or release a new game so that the target group could be more clearly identified. Who is the target group supposed to be? The track plus DLC will certainly cost around €40-50 (!), but for that you get - as things stand - a few locomotives with faces on a realistic-looking track. The interest of the children in question is likely to be short-lived here because the rest of a children's game is simply missing.

 

Steam is what is keeping TSC installed on my PC. If TSW had even 10% of TSC's steam content it might be enough to abandon TSC. Although 3rd rail slam door units are something TSW also lacks.

I used to make scenarios and also used to be happy hunting down assets for routes and scenarios but I just feel I can't be bothered now and largely TSW works out of the box. It certainly falls short on content though.

 

What people need to understand about this dlc is.. What you want as a individual is irrelevant to dtg.
Tsw isn't a simulator aimed solely at adult train enthusiasts.
It's a video game on PlayStation and xbox, where the target audience is childen/young adults! With a limited attention span. They are more likely to spend hours bombing up and down wsr than sticking to a timetable on wcmlos etc.
I would bet that dtg could shift the tsw franchise to fantasy routes and trains from various cartoons etc and still turn over a good profit. But they are not.

Thomas and friends are not taking over tsw! Dtg are still catering for more than one audience. So live with it. And stop being so selfish.

 

This blew up. The way I see it:

DTG is attempting to broaden the user base to create more revenue to allow in turn for more and better content. One of the major problems in game development is this (across the board): the costs of development are continuing to rise but the prices stagnate, thereby requiring an ever increasing amount of sales to break even.

Only one problem: the train sim market is pretty tiny and much expansion isn't possible. All attempts with other games by DTG have not really taken off and do not provide a way to cross-finance TSW.

At the same time, the list of issues in the routes and gameplay is almost endless and could warrant a year of fixup without new revenue. But who would pay for that? Once fixed errors are duplicated on new routes because routes are, for example, started from versions where something isn't fixed. Errors in signalling would be easy to fix but all gameplay would have to be resimulated, potentially causing havoc in large routes and potentially breaking previously working gameplay. QA is far too late in the process (and without detailed knowledge) to meaningfully find and fix these issues that are immediately visible in the preview stream.

DTG would need to spend way more time on development per route with more iteration (would cost way more), while simultaneously producing more content (would cost even more due to more employees) and keeping the prices as is or reducing them (would bring far less revenue) without trying to expand the customer base in order for the majority here to be happy.

I'm not even starting on the difficulty of finding technically capable people with the detailed knowledge required to set up signals, for example.

I would love nothing more than for DTG and thus TSW to find a way forward that is both financially sound and solves the current problems. Unfortunately, I do not see it. Therefore, I'll wait for the DLC and see how the reception is. If this brings a massive flow of revenue of a new customer base, then I'm all for it as that would bolster TSW.

 

Personally, I would have found it more useful and welcome to upgrade the 47, 52 and 33 class to the new standards. A new small diesel for Somerset would have been more appropriate than Thomas the Tank Engine.

 

Class 14 Teddy Bear perhaps?!

 

The problem with catering to a large audience is many people aren't generally appealed by trains. I tried TSW with my younger brother and couldn't last anything more than 10 minutes of playing. If a non enthusiast is like this, this does clearly give an indication on how much they'll play. Trains aren't on the top interests of the general public, compared to other modes like cars or even planes, now we can get an idea on how car racing games and flight simulators are generally more popular than train simulators.

It's no secret as well the majority of the TSW player base are rail enthusiasts whether we like, locos, routes, real life driving experiences, route scenery, route intensity etc. Even again if DTG are trying to appeal to the larger market, it won't make minimal difference. Sure Thomas the Tank engine is a recognisable brand, but how long will they play for? Will they souly just go for Thomas, will they be appealed by the real life routes available on TSW like SEHS, WCMLOS etc? I highly doubt the latter will be of interest and will even be surprised if they invest in such to get the Thomas DLC in the first place. We don't know what the Thomas DLC will involve if it's requires purchasing WSR or will come with the pack? I don't know, but time will tell.

The game since TSW3 hasn't been the same since, we don't have the good community streams like we used to, communication and accountability has fallen of the cliff, codes aren't on the roadmap anymore so we can't take a guess what routes they are producing, the majority of in house DTG routes has been atrocious from the release of NYT, ECML and don't forget WCML South. Compare this to TSW2 and the launch of TSW3 from top tier standards of London Commuter, SEHS and Nahverkehr Dresden. What has happened since then? Something clearly has changed since the launch of TSW3 on someone at the DTG towers thought it was a good idea to release the game annually, release the DLC's in a half baked state whilst neglecting the community and the whole purpose of this game. As I've said, you can try as much as you want, but you're not going to appeal to a large audience properly outside of the enthusiast community.

Now we turn back to this thread, can we now see why many are very frustrated with the announcement of the Thomas DLC? We were hyped that this was going to be a new edition to the game, a new feature, a new route, a new country? From the suffering since the TSW3 days, with bugs, routes released in a half baked state, the Devs not holding themselves accountable when DLC'S are released in a state, not most importantly pretending nothing happened with WCML South and NYT. For the Devs to only realase this is equilivant to a middle finger being pulled at the community who is sick and tired of the practices by the Devs and many are wondering why we are posting heavily critical posts aimed at DTG and Rivet, that's because those are the two main victims of the game whether we're comfortable with it or not. They've made it that way.

This is the same developer who literally said nothing about the atrocious state of WCML South at launch from the incorrect lighting, AWS traps not activating on tracks, incorrect tunnel lighting, the door lock lights on the Class 350 don't turn off after the doors are closed and don't forget the infamous half-baked timetable. We are still 6 months on and still has no single answer on how DTG allowed such as route to be released in a half-baked state. Most importantly why did they source development to Rivet Games? From feedback on the community time and again over the years that this developer has a reputation for producing the most sub-par DLC's we've seen in the game, yet they still hire them for work. I wish not to start on NYT, but that's for another time.

 

I could say the same about Christmas day. I was expecting to open a box containing the keys to a new Lamborghini. It was a box of lynx deodorant! I could have had a tantrum but I was brought up to except what I'm given and not to expect the world to revolve around me.
Besides there's always next year.

My kids are the same. Ooohhhh a flying scotsman, can you buy it dad. 5 mins later they're bored of it and playing roblox.

From dtg's perspective, it doesn't matter if they play it for 5 seconds or 5 weeks. It's a sale, more budget for other developments.

I think you're be surprised how many kids like trains and play tsw. Back when I was a child I had a trainset, all my friends envied my trainset. Thier parents obviously thought the price was a bit steep for a toy. Fast forward a few decades and train sets are still expensive, and quite boring compared to the virtual world of trainsets. Ie tsw, £30 for a route, compared to £30,000 to recreate wcml in a massive warehouse.

 

Despite assertions to the contrary, I still think the takeover by Focus Entertainment completely changed the structure at DTG and the projects that they undertake. I may be completely mistaken but I get the impression they have largely shed technical staff - coders, route builders and model makers. Hence the outsourcing and relatively bland DLC (like 20% of the Cardiff Valley network) in the pipeline and the virtual abandonment of TSC. At the same time they are buying in games being made by other developers and in the process becoming more of a publisher than a developer, with a hierarchy top heavy with advertising and marketing staff. Perhaps that’s just me with my tinfoil sombrero on and happy to be proved wrong on the matter.

 

Just seen in the news that Britt Allcroft has passed away...

Without her and David Mitton, Thomas wouldn't have become the big franchise it did. The original series still holds a special place for me and is a big part of why I got into railways in the first place.

 

They are massively marketing heavy now, the announcements of announcements culture, community staff, social media presence(although I am not active really on any platform so unsure of reach) professionally produced visuals and audio (but not always reflected in the end product) etc.

Compare that to Zusi which I can cope with but has virtually no marketing presence, is a one man band, and isn't the easiest to master but manages to be the one that DB used as a simulator.

I wonder when paying £29.99 now for a DTG DLC that a massive portion of that goes to the PR people.....

 

Did the person who bought it for you tell you at the end of November they had a big special present for you, and then not stop talking about how excited they were to be able to give it to you and giving you the impression that it were going to be life changing?

 

Let's just say I expected more than some lynx deodorant.

 

So no then, they didn't get your expectations up for a month.

 

Well yeah it was longer than a month. Certainly longer than 20 days.

This is dtg we are talking about. The developer that never lives up to the expectations on this forum.
Maybe you was expecting a little too much.
Personally I didn't know what to expect. I certainly wasn't expecting Thomas no. I wasn't expecting any fixes either.

 

As I said in the lead up my expectations were low, however the fact that they seemed to think it would appeal to the majority of the player base made me expect it would at least be something which would actually appeal to most players by being something in the core, where everyone would get the benefit no matter their specific interest in the railway. Instead they have made an announcement which will only be of interest to a seemingly small amount of the existing player base and does not benefit most of the existing player base in any way at all.

 

Indeed, the more I think about it the worse it is.

 

Oh I don't know. It could get a lot worse. (Especially if DTG don't check and double check everything prior to release)
Ooops - BBC News

 

I keep hearing majority of the player base? Is this on other platforms? As far as I can see there's only a couple a dozen users complaining on here, where are the other several hundred thousand complaints?

 

No all these people who claim to be the majority don't have any data to prove it.

They just feel if its what they believe then the majority must as well.

Its funny but if you actually read all the posts most people really don't seem to care, dissappointed yes but just won't buy the DLC.

Also the people stating that others should just move on and are overblowing the situation are getting more likes than those wanting to nuke DTG over this and are acting like the 10 year old who didn't get the toy they wanted having a fit.

Last I checked likes were usually by people who agree with you.

So yes the data points to most are dissappointed, but to the extremes of the few who keep claiming the game is ruined forever and wanting a boycott seem to be the minority

If they were the majority then Mr Majority's petition would have more than 6 people including himself on it.

One of the signees looks like he even signed just so he could comment on how cringy the petition is and troll the guy.

 

Well when this was announced on discord, there wasn't much excitement as well. I don't see much support for this dlc compared to announcements of other previous products on here or other sites except from the usual suspects who defend DTG for the most part on most issues.

 

To be dissappointed and being upset DTG are both very valid and one thing.

But to make it sound DTG ruined your life because of 1 loco and scenario pack is a little overkill. I highly doubt its taking up that many resources.

This isn't like a small 3rd party developer after all.

I'm not defending DTG, I'm defending being reasonable.

 

I never said this DLC ruined my life and I'm pretty sure most players aren't thinking that it ruined their lives

 

There's definitely 1 person thinking that, the insanity that is that stupid petition proves that....

 

1 person is not most players. Also, someone really made a petition? That is rather silly

 

I have only been in the Train SIM arena since early 2024, but I have heavily invested into TSW routes and DLCs. My take on all this is just like the OP, This SIM is just Matt Peddlesden and a few other emplyees play area, a play area in which we all pay for their enjoyment. There is a huge lacking in listening to the community just like the updated map in TSW5, we asked for a few updates like station names and signal colourings on the map etc and blow my socks off they go and OVER engineer it to the extent It's horrid to look at ! Who wants to know platform numbers, siding names etc etc the list goes on. Just a consideration as to what WE want, the COMMUNITY, that want to love and enjoy the immersion of the game, but if you're like me every time there is a massive frame drop, stutter, crash or lag I immediately think that this lot at Dovetail should be sacked for causing all these tech irregularities and problems for the genuine players as they are obviously incompetent, incompetent to the fact they cannot even fix their game ! AND there is never an apology ? If, again like me, you have had the unfortunate task of having to deal with any of their team it's like debating with a child, just to try and get something resolved, the terminology that is used in their chat ooozez immaturity and no real social skills. If only Dovetail could take a leaf or two out of Just Trains book on route design and behaviour on how to run a company, absolute rubbish like "Thomas the tank engine and friends" would not of got over the desk let alone get into the boardroom for discussion, What an absolute joke of a company really.

 

Getting personal about people is not really helping your argument, neither is calling for people to be sacked!

For a long time people have been complaining the 2D map was too basic now you are complaining it shows too much! You sound like a child frankly, I do wonder sometimes if I am playing the same sim as others, also I have never found DTG staff immature to deal with.

Funnily enough I buy TSW and DLC because I enjoy it, why are you buying into it if you feel you are paying for DTG's staffs enjoyment and clearly not getting anything out of it? And so what if they are enjoying it.

This just sounds like another late night rant with little substance.

 

The main problem with the new 2D map is that the finger of suspicion for the performance issues that have dogged the game since TSW5 does tend to point towards it.

 

Are you employed by DTG? You appear to defend their actions & decisions at every opportunity.

 

Fair enough, that might be the case, I had it crash once this week on the map whilst I was rapidly zooming through it, something that used to happen on TSC on occasion. Personally though I am not really having any issues with TSW5 performance wise apart from one choppy route, but I can see some others are.

Most people, though, would start a thread about it not angrily go on about how awful DTG staff are on a thread related to the Thomas add-on.

That suggests the map wasn't the main reason for the post.

 

Place your bets if you will find that certain persons signature on a tiny little petition that's making the rounds.......

 

I would love to know how many of the six signatories actually even own TSW although I can imagine a couple of posters on these forums who might have signed it.

 

[Removed - DTG Alex, Highly insulting]

 

Yeah I'm the dtg troll & upr. No I don't always defend everything they do. You'll find my fair share of criticism on the forums.

 

Really?....you created another account? You know we can tell it's you Trainsimgaming1001.

 

It is common on here, when you post an opposing view to get called things like fanboy, enabler, DTG troll. I suspect it is to deligitimise your point of view.

I've been called things before, yet have been very critical on many occasions, when it is something which bothers me.

 

Yeah I've noticed. People can call me what they like, I'm too old to care.
I wouldn't take it personally, some folks get pretty brave hiding behind a keyboard.

 

Well, at least you’ve confirmed it now!

 

It certainly has been very quiet since the start of the year for TSW, nothing much has happened.

im sure when the January Roadmap happens, discussion will kick off again.

for the time being, I’ll be enjoying the snow here in Manchester

 

Suspect what staff they actually have working full time not starting back until this coming Monday. No urgency to sort things out, then!

 

Happy New Year all.

Well I've stayed quiet on this announcement because I've been quite vocal on the state of TSW for quite a while. This announcement really did prove to me that DTG are just in this for the money nowadays, but I'd like to give my take on how I think DTG should now proceed with their product, this is my own opinion and I think that it's got some valid points, and also some parts that will make you sit and think for a minute about TSW, in both a positive and negative way.

So here goes, remember this is an opinion, and it's like a butt hole, every one has one, and this is mine.

The announcement: It's great that they've got the license for Thomas and friends, will be nice to see them trundle up and down the West Somerset Railway, and will introduce the world of trains and gaming to a younger generation. Was it revealed in the best way? Heck no. But I've come to expect this kind of announcement from the PR/Media/Social team at DTG. It's all gone a little bit towards the side of let's make sure we cater for everybody except the core market we're selling too. DTG read the room like Stevie Wonder at a funeral, no clue what's going on and really do put foot in the mouth more often that not at the moment.

The future idea: I personally think DTG need to pause development for a moment, step back and evaluate the player base for a moment and decide what, in the long run is going to make them more money in the course of the next few years. We are clearly seeing that they are attempting to go for the quickest way to make money at the moment, and are getting the big money making licenses, at the cost of realistic content.

So what can they do? Personally I think that DTG should now fork/branch off development of the core product. What do you mean Bryer? Well what I mean is that they are now at a point where they can save their franchise, or flush it down the toilet. It's as simple as that. Just as big 3rd party developers are coming out with great looking, and playing routes, the core product that these developers are having to use is broken MASSIVELY.

So DTG, you could create Train Sim World: Professional. Fix your core product, rebrand it, and give the fanbase what they want. Working, highly optimised, highly detailed and highly polished products based on real licenses, with real world locations with everything taken up a notch where you develop the core engine (like TSC) and leave the bulk of content to 3rd party developers (like TSC), so that your teams are focused on fixing the plethora of bugs and glitches. They can spend their time remastering the old core routes, introducing better timetables, better route detail, better dispatch/signaller and most of all focus on the immersion that having all of the above sorted would give the player.

I think you've also got a market with the more casual player, but call it Train Sim World: Imagination, where you can release the Christmas railway, Thomas and Friends, Chuffington, Lego Railway, Fisher Price stuff. You get what I mean.

Please DTG, read the room. The vast majority of the player base are paying for routes (which aren't cheap), on top of a yearly release (which isn't cheap if you want to buy the routes too), yes you've got the Free edition, but you've got rid of that now. So just please give the consumer the option of a highly detailed, authentic game/simulator or a cash grab. You're losing the customers that have been with you through the TSW developement cycle. Let's not shy away from the fact that we've overlooked a lot of the short comings, as you're the only real option to feed our habit of "geeking out" to trains.

Have a great 2025 everyone, hopefully at some point the polish will shine and the game will feel a bit more stable.

 

Whenever DTG announces or releases something someone doesn't want, we often get "They should do this, or that, or fix this etc etc".

DTG have always been about making money, just like every other company.

 

Although with recent TSW releases I have certainly spent more time in the platform I still feel DTGs strategy doesn't align with railway enthusiasts who want detail, accuracy and some attention paid to past releases. 3rd parties now have the ball for us wanting decent lengths of route that make sense and don't have a must be modern and have a 66 as the criteria. That's before getting into the Thomas debate.

Maybe it would be good if a new simulator from elsewhere entered the fray. As it stands DTG almost stand alone due to the age and difficulties mastering other train sims.

I now have absolutely no enthusiasm for the roadmaps and announcements of announcements that get trotted out with exclamation marks and wow a train passes another train ambassador vids that also Ramp up the noise.

Give us the Highland Mainline in the 80s or 90s and I will go away and be quiet for quite a while. More chance of Thomas gameplay add on for WCML South. Spend hours with the realism between Hemel.Hempstead and Bushey as Thomas pulls the troublesome trucks......

 

These forums do seem to be filled with a lot of business masterminds that don't actually run any businesses, now I'm just a normal plain idiot, but have had the thought that DTG are doing what feels like the right idea for them in what they aim to achieve, and just to make it clear for everyone that reads this, I couldn't care less about DTG the company as far as I see them, they make a product I want so I buy it, if they went bust and got wiped from history tomorrow I wouldn't be sad in the slightest, they are simply a normal company doing normal company stuff by annoying some people and giving others everything they could ever dream of........

 

I think you're reading the room like DTG with this. You seem to either not understand the gripes or are attempting to invoke violence/trouble by posting inflammatory replies.

Like I said in my post, I couldn't care less about Thomas, I'll get it as it's part of my child hood. But DTG need to read their audience properly. I can pretty much say that I don't want Thomas (it's a nice to have, but not wanted), but what I do want, and a lot of other posters are stating is a working, polished "sim/game" that works as it should. They aren't fixing things properly, because their core engine is so disjointed. Now is the right time to stop, reevaluate and release 2 products.

One that's focused on providing the "professional" experience, and the other that allows them to experiment with the fun stuff.