Enough Is Enough Thomas And Friends Edition

I predict it’ll sell between 1000-5000 copies and we know a fair amount will get it free

 

Nope, take that back.
Needs to be the original, not the latter CGI Thomas. We need a fat controller with shovel hands.

 

LOL how brilliant is that? We will rant and laugh during the whole holiday season. Best thing a community manager can do. Well done.

 

It's all a matter of perspective..
- For DTG it must be very exciting to work with such a large company as Mattel, and Thomas will appeal to many people (with (grand)children). maybe they even got the model from them
- For the community who grew up with Thomas ( i didnt ) this can be interesting
- people with children grandchildren to give them a first experience
- For the community who wants content as close to real as possible, it will be disappointing.

imo: i would have done this Thomas reveal more at the start

in the end, you buy what you want.

in any case: no need to attack eachother about it!

 

I have my criticisms of DTG but I'd question the idea that the inclusion of Thomas undermines TSW as a sim. If you don't want to buy it, don't. The comparisons are to Holiday Express, which I never bought, and never will, but there are lots of addons that don't appeal to me - each to their own - which don't spoil my enjoyment of those that do. As long as it doesn't abstract from development into the core features, I have no problem.

And I re-iterate: a representation of the Island of Sodor would be amazing.

 

I think this is the problem. That it was revealed as a “Big Reveal” after keeping the core crowd in anticipation for three weeks. If they’d announced it lower key as part of a roadmap then people would be thinking “meh” and would either buy it or not as they see fit. Also, a Christmas release, a la Holiday Express would have probably been better received and generated more sales but they are talking in terms of weeks and months. A “novelty” release in the middle of the year is not likely to generate as much interest.

 

I think this definitely qualifies as a big reveal. It's huge, whether it matters to you personally or not.

 

I'm not so sure they're paying anything. For all we know, Mattel might have approached DTG?

Brands are quite keen to get in on popular video games (see the innumerable Fortnite cross-overs and promotions). Obviously TSW isn't even in the same galaxy when it comes to player-base size, but maybe Mattel has been planning a Thomas game for a while and just figured it's easier to outsource it than do it themselves? If that's the case, DTG absolutely couldn't turn that offer down. Focus wouldn't let them even if they wanted to most likely.

I really don't have a problem with a Thomas spin-off for TSW, or even having a Thomas themed route- i just wish it was its own internal team and not taking up dev resources that could be used on the real game.

I guess the most definitive thing you can say about the reveal is that it's highly divisive, which doesn't really fit the spirit of the season imo.

 

For me this is like if EA Sports/Fifa decided instead of using months of their time to acquire new licences, build new stadiums, include more leagues that people play as part of the actual main experience.. they instead spent months doing none of that and making a virtual little subbuteo for all the kids to play instead. It's neglecting the core and beating heart of the game for what is frankly nothing more than a marketing gimmic.

if DTG want to go down the Thomas the Tank route good luck to them, but i cannot help but think the months that have been spent aquiring the Thomas licence from Mattel, building these Thomas and friends engines and deciding for some reason after all that to just stick them on WSR.. all that time and effort could have been utilised so much better, and to the benefit of so many more people heavily invested in this franchise.

i also can't help but think how rushed and chaotic the recent WCML South release was.. was that partly down to DTG being too busy dealing with Mattel to actually provide the core community a real life DLC it wanted?

and my final point, this is a massive failure in being able to read the room. I'd love someone to go through the suggestions forum and find just how many people wanted the ECML extending to York, or how many wanted a Class 91, or how many wanted a new freight loco.. and i'd then like those same people to find out just how many suggestion articles there are for introducing Thomas the Tank Engine onto West Somerset Railway.

that alone is the epitome of DTG not reading the room.. announce a new Thomas/Mattel deal if that's what you want, but don't put the community on hold for 3 weeks thinking this is some amazing new road we all want you to take us down, because clearly it is not.

 

Just putting my two penn'orth out there -

I feel like the Thomas announcement would have gone a lot better if it was announced on the first week of the reveals.

I think the reaction would have been a lot more positive, as there would have been several more weeks to announce the other and more familiar upcoming TSW content, with Thomas acting like a fun ice breaker to the introduction of the Christmas calendar.

To leave something right to the very end, which a lot of the current player base have little interest in, was a bad marketing move imo.

Of course this is just my opinion and other players are welcome to disagree, but there you go

 

Announcement:
TSW5, New Route Release for Summer 2025.

 

What i suspect....
- Mattel contacted DTG
- Mattel delivered the 3D models to DTG
- DTG made sure moving parts are moving and implemented a simple forward/backward/brake like the holiday dlc
which they use on WSR.

is appealing to people with nostalgia
is appealing to people with children/grandchildren

Minimum effort cashcow

and no need to break it down

 

Reading the forums today leaves me wondering if the forums are more or less mature than the target audience of this DLC. My bet goes on less.

 

Why do people keep writing utter nonsense about the Holiday Express? It features a fully functional F7.

 

With a bit of simplified controls. the brake goes from 'little brake' to 'hold brake' to 'increase brake', to 'full brake'
also no dynamics, its just VERY simplified (I just bought the holiday express and i find it very fun for a change during the holidays, but it is NOT the control of an F7)

 

My thoughts on the whole thing…


It’s a good thing, I’m not against it at all.


However, it was a stupid move to make it a “grand reveal”


If this was announced in the first week, it wouldn’t get as much backlash

 

Which they have done, and is also an enjoyable experience.

 

i think this is exactly the point, and what massively disappointed me.

i have absolutely zero interest in this new Thomas DLC, but at the same time good luck to it.. but it absplutely 100% should never have been hyped as this big reveal. It might be big for DTG financially but it means nothing to the majority of the demographic who play this game

 

Best thing about it is spawning real trains on there and play with them on the gradients.

 

yeah, those gradients seem quite nasty

 

So realistic steam wasn't worth investing in, it was just abandoned without half the promised features, left massively broken...

And then we get a bloody kiddies tank engine out of the blue (haha)

Honestly it's an insult to those who love steam in this game, and all the hyping up was really misplaced imo. Like it all you want but it really feels like a kick in the you know what for those who have a sweetspot for realistic steam traction and are thoroughly disappointed by how it is in this game currently...

 

Does this mean DTG are going to reboot steam locomotives - after all we haven't got an 0-6-0 on the roster yet?

In seriousness THIS probably was a big licensing coup for DTG and would be celebrated within the industry but not the current(!) customer base. But then I do have to question some of the potential missteps that DTG have taken with regard to licensing - which is the biggest obstacle to creating a wider variety of content.

The first opportunity I felt DTG missed was with the giant billboard at Clapham Junction on London Commuter. What we got was some irreverent 'office joke', when the advertising space could have been utilised constructively to promote a railway charity or even See It, Say It, Sorted. This might have had the potential to open discussions with connections within the railway industry.

More recently and MORE WORRYINGLY I watched a DTG Livestream and was aghast that DTG Matt was attempting to drive an EMT HST as fast as he could before it derailed. This was also getting DTG Harry Harry and DTG Alex very excited. This sort of behaviour and promotion of DELIBERATE train-wrecking is not the type of activities the license holders (current and potential) would like.

 

How old are you chap?
Bringing family members into it, grow up.

 

I wouldn't say so. This got the biggest reaction by a mile (sorry, kilometer), and I don't see any of the other reveals having nearly the same effect in the 20th spot, or Thomas having much less of a reaction anywhere else.

It's now DTG's job to turn out an especially nice product, lest the pearl-clutchers and doomsayers end up being right.

 

I think my main worry with this is that it's not going to be a steam experience. I hope DTG take the opportunity to work on steam a bit more but I do worry that this is going to be little more than a stop/go experience more akin to an EMU rather than the full driving experience? Although I'm happy to be proved wrong.

I don't hate the idea of Thomas content I just find throwing it on WSR a bit of a strange one? Unless they're using it as a playground to mess with the steam physics which is wishful thinking. I also have a worry that because it's a Thomas licence the content and how strict the conditions are it will be locked to the Thomas gameplay pack and you won't be able to do any else with it.

That and I agree with the previous comments about it being a really weird grand reveal. I'd have announced it a bit earlier just to save the build up. But at least Just Trains had solid offerings and the Welsh route looks decent

 

The marketing was great reminds me of something from the past....oh yeah thats it.

 

Those aren't simplified controls at all, those are identical to the brakes on the full-fat F7! The only thing missing from the Holiday Express F7 is some stuff like dynamic brakes etc. - but they're disabled entirely, not simplified.

I have no idea why you're trying to police the activities of DTG employees when they have a much better idea of what creating a relationship with license holders looks like - though granted I do not think they have been entirely honest when they say crashes are an issue with license holders.

 

I mean there are over reactions on this thread then there is this! Some people need to take a step back and get some perspective and some civility. Your comment says more about you!

Some of the reactions on here, from what I assumed were adults make me wonder if Thomas is too mature of them. It's a game/sim whatever you want to call it, not some TV drama.

 

It is worth noting that as East Midlands Trains is owned by the Department for Transport, there's not much they can do that would mean permission to use the brand would be revoked.

The more terrifying possibility is that DTG weren't trolling and they genuinely thought this was a good idea.

 

What makes you think it's a bad idea? A few moaners on here? Are they going to stop playing TSW?

 

I’ve seen some backlashed dlc before in this game, rivet DLCs, TSW2…

But this dlc just takes the cake, on the discord. It’s been nothing but 10 hours of hell. Still talking about it, debating etc.

Whether you like this dlc or not, this DLCs announcement has caused nothing but chaos and controversy

 

And it is probably a small percentage of people who probably need to get out more rather than treating DTG and TSW like an episode of EastEnders. The only chaos is one that people want to create.

I've come to the conclusion that spending time on these forums is just not worthwhile anymore.

 

The problem isn't the DLC itself, but it being marketed as the 'big reveal'. As said earlier, if it was earlier on and the big reveal was something worthy, this thread wouldn't exist.

I feel sorry for the moderators.

 

lol, I’ll never understand adults that have forgotten how to be a kid again…sad to see.

 

lol, and you’re very well balanced with your feedback, aren’t you? Lol.

 

Well I will admit I was speculating a bit. Just going off of what few hints Sam drops on his main channel and some of the things he said when he was CM, it's clear there was constant friction with higher ups, often involving them being out of touch with the playerbase. Regardless, I have 0 evidence that any termination came as a result.

 

I could 100% believe that, although no evidence ofc.

Still it raises a very good point about DTG's current business model where they release low cost, low-effort cashgrabs like buggy tram game and VR New Joke to funnel funds into the few high quality projects they actually care about like the new FREE WCML update with 800+ services on the timetable, which must have cost a lot to make and kept their best developers busy.

I do feel bad for those who fall into the trap and buy the cashgrabs, but it's not terrible news for us dedicated fans who can discern what we should and shouldn't buy. The WCML South in is current state is a great show of what DTG can do when they give a project enough time and passion. Yeah it's too short but the replayability is insane, especially if you own the layer DLCs. LIRR extended and SEHS extended are also good examples.

I don't know how to feel about this, DTG is a company like any other looking for maximum profit, but has a small section of really passionate devs who know what they are doing.

 

erm, the Holiday Express carries over the F7 physics unchanged

 

And it's locked behind 2 paywalls. Just beautiful..

 

Merry Christmas "Bot" servant.

 

Rather than name calling and throwing petty insults, which is just childish, not constructive, and doesn't contribute anything, don't say anything.

 

This really. I’m not in the slightest bit anti Thomas, I mean I was the one who posted in Suggestions a couple of weeks ago about doing a department store style model railway that you could shrink down into and explore or drive. A while back I actually did a terrain extraction for Trainz Surveyor of a couple of locations akin to Sodor, just to amuse myself with the geography (never went anywhere though). No, it’s the way that DTG, genuinely it seems, thought this would get people going ooh and aah as the big final reveal despite visiting the forums and various other social media every day and therefore must understand the general mood and wishes of the customer base. Even given all the speculative discussion around the final reveal, surely someone was savvy enough to say or think, well maybe we had better dust off something else as Thomas vs. all these expectations is going to backfire horribly? Read the room, as they say.

And just to reprise what I and others have said. Give this its own little Sodor route pack and even some of us hardened old grizzled players might have taken a punt on it. If the announcement had been accompanied by a recommitment to steam traction in TSW going forward into 2025, the reception might not have been so negative. Something along the lines of here is Thomas for the younger players, but you will be pleased to hear we are also working on a well known GWR branch line and a Pannier Tank with B set to herald the return of steam.

 

I think the reveals was great fun and some good stuff. I have long outgrown Thomas but I loved him when I was little and my children still like him now.
I think, as others have said, it’s not the DLC, it’s the fact it was the final reveal, when DTG would know that it’s going to go down badly with a passionate fanbase but did it anyway.

It’s a great coup to get Mattel on board and anything that brings new players in is great for us all. However it has fallen rather flat.

Imagine the huge good feeling if the final reveal had been ECML and a 91. The buzz would have kept going well into the new year.

instead I feel a bit stupid for getting over excited and thinking it was c2c or something. That’s my fault, but a marketing campaign that makes the user feel stupid does not work.

I’m going to stop coming on here for a few months and wasting my time and am going to enjoy driving trains on what I already own. Hopefully something cool coming in the summer 2025.

 

I’m going to agree with some comments here, this was marketed completely wrong.

Keeping people in suspense for weeks to reveal something that is, in my opinion, not particularly interesting.
If it had simply appeared on the roadmap I think people would have been fine with it, but calling something that’s so cheap and simple a ‘big reveal’ is a bit dumbfounded to me. Yeah I understand the partnership is a big deal but the content itself seems incredibly boring, for now anyway.

If it can be expanded to include more characters, maybe even Sodor, I’m sure it’ll do very well. DTG aren’t stupid, they know what interests their player-base, it’s a genius move. We are a small minority in these forums.

 

The other lens to look at this through is if Mattel are pleased with the output and management of the dlc its a massive licensing win.

Take your "i want realism hat" off for just one second. Being able to say you've successfully managed licenses with one of the largest companies in the world (comparitive to many,), then it shows a degree of confidence in the bigger picture project for operating companies who may not know what tsw is about.

I'm struggling to see the issue. It's not forced on you and here is a minimal part of overall playing Base,yet likely most miserable

 

Only Jaguar made better coming out this year ‍

 

I'm a bit late to the party here but I saw a thumbnail for this somewhere and I genuinely thought it was a joke or some weird mod someone from the community had published. I actually don't care that they are brining Thomas the tank engine into the game if you don't like it dont buy it simple enough right? What I do have an issue with is this 20 day build up where you are announcing or "revealing" all these real world routes and locos and then on the last day BOOM!!!! Thomas the bloody tank engine.

I mean look at the route suggestions thread absolutely filled with great suggestions for real world routes some of which people have been asking for years for, has anyone ever suggested Thomas the tank engine in that forum? I don't think so...........but hey maybe this will start a new trend in the industry you might get CDPR adding a Barny the Dinosaur contract as the first DLC for The Witcher 4 or you might get a mission in GTA 6 where you have to rescue Peppa Pig from the FIB....... who knows......

 

Is that the best you've got?

 

Does anyone know if there's gonna be variants without the faces on? I mean if there was, you could make something worth while in livery designer. I use the E class quite a lot on tsc for shunting and branchline workings.