Enough Is Enough!!!

When we reach page 99 we'll need two photos, one of GBRF's new locos and one of the MS Nord Pas de Calais.

 

The thing with Simugraph is that you can in theory get more realistic results than TSC - if you know what you're doing and have the right data. Garbage in, garbage out...

Well, we don't know if the complexity of Simugraph is why steam isn't finished. The problem is that the public editor can't add new Simugraph nodes, so it's impossible to create a proper steam simulation without DTG's help. It's not like TSC where you can gut large parts of the core simulation and replace them with your own code.

 

That was at least what i got. They said that simugraph wasn't able to simulate steam physics, so they had to implement this. I did assume that it was to big of a task, thats why we ended up on this 'half baked' situation. But like i said that was an assumption and i should have wrote it like this.

You are of course absolutely right.

 

resuming this thread makes me think the game engine chosed by DTG isn't the best choice after all.
the more promising simulations all use Unity, more open, more extendable, more modding friendly
even the eye candy of TSW still leaves lots to be desired, 5 years since release we still have popping trees, shadows, tracks on every route,
the footwell and ceiling of locomotive cabs as bright as the control desk, poor audio occlussion
and developing for Epic seems so much more complicated, time and labour intensive
but it is what it is, and we are stuck with DTG's choices and implementation

 

Kuju were right to create a custom engine for Rail Simulator, it wasn't great in the beginning but it turned out to be quite a bit more capable and malleable than originally thought. Train Sim World probably should have used a custom engine, thinking in hindsight. The problems they've had with Unreal probably wouldn't have happened with a custom engine - I even wonder what could have happened if they attempted a major upgrade of Train Simulator's code instead.

 

Have said on more than one occasion, if we could get the capability in TSC to have an all day timetable same as TSW, then the latter would be pretty much redundant for PC users at least. The only thing it would lack is the ability to walk around in pseudo first person view but I'm sure if the coders put their mind to it, anything is possible.

 

There are ways of hacking a timetable mode of sorts into the game via advanced quick drives, but as someone who doesn't get the appeal of timetable mode and has never enjoyed playing it I'm not really bothered.

 

Well if QD in TSC had the ability to define station calls and checked you against it, that would probably suffice. Surprised they never added that really. Whether it ever comes depends on how many coder hours TSC actually gets vs. TSW and their other products.

 

I'm fairly sure they never outright said this - the line was always that manual firing was always coming at some point in the future before they announced that there would be no further development on steam.

 

Please. If you think Unreal has issues with draw distance and pop-in, Unity says "Hold my beer."

 

The thing is both engines have huge potential when used correctly. Life Is Strange used Unreal 3 and looked beautiful, as one of many examples. Unfortunately DTG, either out of a lack of patience, will or skill, did not put in the effort to optimise the engine, to the extent where not only does TSW have quite flawed performance, but it's quite ugly except at the very highest settings. Playing the game in 4K shouldn't be needed to make the game not look blurry, there are PS2 games that hide their low resolution better than TSW looks in 1080p, even with 200% screen percentage.

 

Another issue is the amount of time needed to get TSC filled with high definition DLC (and cost) and then write scenarios or QDs or simply plant for free roam. I realised lately I am short on time and spent longer writing scenarios than playing them. Have reluctantly drifted back to TSW4 as it's a quick fix. Found the Brighton with the 700 mod is spot on and ECML with MML layered is better too. I think TSC will stay installed for a long rainy day. But for a quick half hour go after a 12 hr shift TSW may be the way to go. Appreciated everyone's time/budget is different.

 

Very true. I know I’ve been going on about Run 8 and the new switchers the last couple of days, but yesterday evening still found myself back in TSW doing a run on Rosenheim. Now I’ve got the lighting mod up and running it is much better.

At its best, TSW is very good.

 

I only have TSC to make scenarios, its so satisfying making it then driving it and seeing it all work properly

 

I think AP's Weather Enhancement Pack V.2 actually reduced my playing time on TSC. I have so many scenarios that were made with the old weather pack that now have flashing skies that it's becoming hard work when looking for a random drive. I know you can edit the weather to the new pack but it's just such a ball-ache.For the time being I'm still buying all new UK TSC modern stuff because there are still some good routes/DLC in the works with TP developers.

I'm enjoying dipping into TSW4 Timetable mode, wait for the next train to arrive/spawn and drive it there and back and it all works. It may not have the diversity and quality of the fully enhanced TSC experience but after a hard day of work, I just want to decompress and drive.

 

It isn't an Unreal Engine problem, it's a user issue...

 

I have to enthusiastically agree with this statement. I have been a member of the forums since they started. I moved over here since the forums on TSC on Steam was so toxic (for all those claiming how much better TSC is to TSW, I suggest you read through the steam forums). TSW's forum on Steam started to devolve into the same complaint fest as the TSC forums.

This used to be a forum that had a community willing to help, provide constructive criticism and discuss the shortcomings as well as the high points of the simulation. But lately, people dog pilling on third party developers for what I consider overblown complaints with outrageous drama, Yelling for boycotts, pointing toward any positive comments with derisions of "Fan Boy", Company Shrill and other such labels, I have found my time frequenting these forms to be greatly reduced.

And just for the record, after all the Rivet bashing, spent the weekend running various services, scenarios and free-roams on the Scottish Rivet routes and never ran into a game breaking bug, while some scenery choices could be questions, the stations are well done, and to the contrary of what many would want to hear, I enjoyed myself and felt the entertainment value for my cash outlay was good.

 

Some of the more vociferous moaners on here would argue that the game is stuck at TSW2 with the two subsequent editions being just minor tweaks that have added little and in many cases actually worsened performance and added bugs to well loved existing routes.

Personally I try and ignore the negativity from people like that and just concentrate on comments from the long time loyal users as they seem to understand exactly what makes TSW the most brilliant train simulation ever and as near to perfection as is humanly possible.

I have little time for posters who belittle my all time favourite game so tend to concentrate only on the well informed unbiased views from contributors who have a minimum of 5,000 posts (10k is even better) and/or the fountain of knowledge, clarity and fairness always on display from the highly respected team of DTG Ambassadors. These are the only people who I take an active interest in hearing or reading comments from.

Truth be told I have just a few life ambitions left to achieve and these include walking on the surface of Mars, meeting Donald Trump in person, hang gliding down the Grand Canyon and becoming an Ambassador for DTG games. I would gladly forego all the others if I was given the opportunity to be a TSW Ambassador with my own You Tube channel.

Some may mock my lofty ambitions but I live in eternal hope.

 

The number of posts alone is not necessarily a marker of positivity or fairness.

 

I mean comparing TSW 2, 3 and 4, most of the changes weren't exactly major between 3 and 4. TSW 3 merely added updates to existing features and was exactly the case for tsw4 as well hence why people criticized DTG at the time. Looking back, I don't see any reason why there needed to be a TSW 4.

Apart from a few ambassadors, I find most to not offer balanced reviews and only seem to say positive things so they don't lose free copies of their DLC

 

This is no different than individuals who criticize those who do offer valid complaints about a product. From telling critics to go away, put up or shut up, acting as if not purchasing something makes it immune to criticism, acting as if we should treat this company as charity, trying to shut down valid criticism because it doesn't fit their viewpoint and I can go on.

Considering the issues that players have pointed out in TSW, it is hardly surprising that there is so much criticism.

 

Where did I ever say anything about shutting down valid criticism? So I have no idea what you are trying to imply with this response.

 

And when you go back to the early releases, in many aspects you can clearly see the drop in quality. No wonder the amount of angry users grows.

 

That it isn't suprising that there is so much negative posts. Also it was a general statement. There are individuals who complain about criticisms, and try to shut down valid criticism by name calling as well. It's not just a few people who criticize the game that are the only ones acting the way that you say they act

 

And again, your point? It has nothing to do with my comment that the toxicity of the forums has reduced the effectiveness of this being a helpful community. It doesn’t matter from which side the toxic comments come, they all reduce usefulness this forum.

 

If you can't understand my point after I literally explained, then I'm not sure what more to say

 

Because you comments do not make any sense to my original post. It seems quite a few others understood my points but not sure what you are arguing for. I stated the toxicity of these forums are turning many including myself off and then further clarified that the toxicity occurs on both sides. Is that what you are disagree with?

 

I don't disagree. I said what I said because you originally brought up one side of the issue that you have when there are other people that do the exact thing that you claim that the "critics" do. If you can't understand, then I don't know what more I can say.

Also, you can find assistance on the forums. There are many threads in the Troubleshooting section that do have people that help others from what I've seen

 

good - so you are agreeing with what I said… best

 

i dont know but something is telling me that its a satire account and not a serious post

 

As I previously remarked- looks like a duck, sounds like a duck.....

 

While many of us are eagerly waiting for page 100, I would like to speak of a bit different milestone

With today's posts this thread overtakes Livery Designer Creations and becomes the largest on the entire DTG forums. And what a journey it was.

On the one hand, I would love the largest thread to be us being happy about a high-quality game with great releases, support, and innovations, patting the backs of the devs, and eagerly waiting to buy a new release.

On the other hand I'm glad I am not the only one being disappointed by the reality we've been served. Even if it's just us sharing the opinions with no feedback. This thread IIRC has not seen a single meaningful response from DTG. And during its existence, the situation has probably gotten even worse.

But we can still hope one day this thread won't be needed. Or we might end up meeting in the forums or some different railsim if nobody learns from the almost 5000 posts in here. Here's to my fellow players, no matter what side you're on.

 

Well yes. Rivet’s banal attempt at Fife Circle.
Then looks like the next keynote releases are going to be another cab car for the German stock, more silent running. And a Class 380 EMU with tiny postage stamp window, one handle driving, dead quiet cab for a route that most of us have played to death.

If this is DTG’s idea of how to innovate in a train sim product, please try harder.

 

They like the lowest hanging fruit. Would prefer Inverness to Kyle in 1993 please. 37s, 156s, 26s will do thanks.....

 

1983?! Day One please take £40 off me.

 

To be fair, this thread is 90% drivel, as is much of the forum.

 

83 or 93 will do, come on JT you have all the research and bits just dont forget the grain sidings at Muir of Ord...We cant leave Scotland in Rivets hands for much longer!

 

Not really fair is it? A huge amount of productive conversations happen across this forum - the troubleshooting threads for example are something that I try to help with, and beyond those subforum a lot of good topics are brought up. And this thread is certainly not drivel, the things being said here are things that very much needed to be said, and would be said regardless of this thread's existence.

I do not believe this forum is toxic or drivel, far from it. If you believe your time is wasted on here, as I did on other forums such as GTPlanet, the best course of action is to log out and leave us get back to our pointless and silly conversations...

 

Are there any active Developer accounts still here?

 

Victory Works is a frequent poster. Maik Goltz was also a poster here but had a tantrum after we dared to critique something he'd made.

 

I guess SD40Australia couldn't leave the forums after all

 

Well not fully. I don't agree that you can't find help in this forum or that the forums are not helpful when there are dedicated threads that constantly have users help each other out whenever someone is having trouble with something.

 

Is the fishing area here abandoned? I have been absent here quite some time.

 

I think the largest doses of drivel were mainly from one member, currently missing in action, who despite not having TSW4 went to great lengths to tell everyone how bad it is. It was mainly repetition, which if you take all instances of repetition out of this thread it would be ten pages not 100. It’s still the best thread on the forum for a good laugh. Sadly it hasn’t taken the main complaints of “TSW is bad” from other threads as I consistently see some people post something here and then post the same thing on all the other threads they can find. The eternally unhappy people. The main thrust is of course that TSW is worse now than it has ever been, something that is categorically not true. It has issues but apart from the failure of steam and the lack of enough US freight it is actually in much better shape now than it has ever been.

TSW3 and TSW4 are big steps forward. More third parties are joining and I think most people agree that that is a good thing. The quality of DTG’s routes is getting better. The whole look of the game is better, my main gripe with that is that the signals are less visible than in the old gloomy lighting, definitely something to work on, and that the moonlight is not bright enough. The darkness is better than the near daylight in many routes at night (up to and including TSW2 releases) though.

I think that the people who think it is so bad aren’t actually spending quality time with it. Those who are playing it a lot are generally having such a good time that they feel less inclined to even visit the forum let alone take part in posting. That’s why the forum is the only part of TSW that has truly gone downhill. I’ve been here long enough to be able to tell the difference between constructive criticism and repeatedly whining in an echo chamber of despair. It’s not only me who has noticed.

 

Yes - but the Signal to Noise ratio is very much lower than it was in the beginning. Hence why I for myself have quit frequenting these forums as much as I once did. I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but would not be surprised if there are many others so affected by the tone of many threads since even many of the helpful threads get hijacked. That was the jest of my comment agreeing with another long time member and poster on his observation. If you feel the tone of the forums is OK - great and enjoy them, I just stating my observation.

 

But haven't you heard that DTG knows best?

They don't even need to read the forums and suggestions because they are just so in tune with what people enjoy.

Plus if they do modern EMUs all the time think of the time they save not having to worry about buffet and restaurant cars and creating realistic consists.

*Sarcasm disclaimer*

 

But TSW3 & TSW4 aren't the reason why they are joining. Some of them were announced to be joining yet when TSW2 was the current version. Only because it took some time of development, they released their first add-ons for TSW3 or TSW4.

 

Well if you are saying that part of the reason the forums are bad because they aren't helpful, that just isn't true. I have read some of the troubleshooting threads that have been helpful. If I have had an issue or guides on this forum. Coming to a thread like this for instance that was about criticizing the release of TSW 4 isn't going to be helpful obviously. If you want to find help with particular issues, then a thread like this obviously isn't a place for that. If you want to find threads with certain topics that aren't criticizing DTG, then there are threads for that. There are people that have created threads that have asked questions and I have helped or gave an answer on a few occasions like the passenger issue on the Suffragette Line

You can't complain that the forums aren't helpful when you pick and choose to respond to certain topics that are obviously not going to help you with a particular issue that you may have or have a topic that is of no interest to you

 

But there are things that absolutely have gone downhill - major things, like DTG giving up on finishing steam.

 

Presumably you'd disagree with those of us who think that those two features are key elements in a train simulator worth its salt.

I'd put the early routes and locos of SPG, NTP, TVL and GWE, and even the Rush Hour routes and locos way better than all those pretty-colored, one- handled emus driving on mundane commuter lines. My opinion of course.