PC Epic Games Losing Most Dlc [update: Not Anymore]

That was further than I got, they explained the issue (poorly), said "heres 60 DLCs we provided, you can still play all your compatible content (this is wrong) or stick with TSW5 (completely ignoring my point of how standard practices result in previous games not being updated" and closed the ticket on me

 

Just shows how much they think of the community all they want is your money they dont care about people there the only compony i know that make there own games worse were others inprove theres even classic players better then TSW Dovetail your a joke.Heart goes out to people on epic

 

Yeah, totally respectable. Even with a priority list, this is years of TSW stuff I'm talking about. Costs thousands for me. I'm in a more cooked place. Might as well just wait for updates and keep staying on Epic. No turning back for me at this point or rebuying stuff.

 

My stance on the whole thing does not change (about EU Laws I mentioned on page 2) and More answers/info on why it's happening in the first place (Reminder that this started with the 101 Expert Gameplay pack).
Although credit where it's due, the new stuff coming to the game look fantastic.

As for now, for me atleast will keep TSW5 installed (at least it's not half bad, game still plays miles better after recent optimizations & the content we have it's accessible). Get the Free starter pack just in case the whole thing clears up (not optimistic on how fast it will be) & going back to grinding in GTA Online (Enhanced-PC) before the new leaked Mansions update comes out.

 

This is a very bad situation for the EGS player base....alot of DLC not moving to TSW6 (notable omissions RSN, NTP, TVL, BML, Clinchfield, Cathcart Circle) not forgetting all the layers/subs for future routes.

Pretty crazy as this came without warning....now EGS players will need to keep TSW5 installed to play the older content which didn't make the cut and obviously won't receive any updates to those in the future.

It would be a nice goodwill gesture for Epic players to be offered steam keys for all their owned DLC.....but honestly, I cannot see this happening as Steam/DTG/Epic stand to lose quite alot of $ if they did.

 

I'd recommend a solid review-bombing campaign on Epic if folks can do that, to warn anyone considering buying TSW6 for the first time against getting it there. As long as they still buy it elsewhere it doesn't hurt DTG's bottom line, and in the long term could make them more money assuming that new player eventually ends up buying more DLC than the Epic cap.

 

That was a generalised statement, not directed at you in particular.

 

Wow. They don't know what they're doing. You know, companies have went bankrupt for this. Good luck Dovetail.

 

They wouldn't lose anything for giving steam keys. They would just miss out on that double revenue from repurchases.

 

I hate how Dovetail didn't say anything new during the stream. They are defenitely hiding something.

 

Presumably if all Epic users moved over to Steam, Epic would be losing a cut of all future DLC sold via the EGS. Steam and DTG wouldn't I agree

 

Why on earth Dovetail is getting the blame for what is clearly Epic's policy/snafu is beyond me. DTG after all are transferring over 100% of content on XBox Series X, Series S, One, Playstation 5, Playstation 4, Steam PC and Microsoft PC - but Unaccountably decide to limit it on Epic, alone?

 

We'll just have to accept it the way it is right now. It's in DTG's hands to tell us and give us updates. It was great at least trying to fight for Epic Games' players' rights to their DLC in the new game. But I won't ever rebuy anything because it will make Epic Games (and DTG since we will just be giving them double revenue unnecessarily in my opinion) win the fight and disprove all of our efforts, and like I said, would be a money burden on me even on sale. Let's hope for the best.

 

I do agree with you. However DTG haven't really said why this has happend. Even if they just said as politely as possible that it's Epics problem, not ours. Yes DTG have told us it is happening but not really why and I have felt Epic players are at least owed an explanation.
What I did like in the roadmap stream was Alex's optimistic attitude towards maybe it being resolved at least partially in the future.

 

If they can't resolve this situation, and can't give us steam keys to migrate, then they've lost a lot of customers plain and simple. I don't care if they've said they can't give steam keys before; Make it happen, or fix the situation with EGS. I am not re buying a single thing.

 

This. They have a lot of people they are going to lose on Epic Games if this is how DLC is treated moving forward. I've done everything I can to make people aware from making tickets to asking questions on the stream, posting here, etc. It's up to DTG and Epic Games to find ways to remedy this and keep players. There is no way I'm rebuying anything either, means that we're just paying extra money for no reason. If it's not the players' fault, they shouldn't have to pay the price. Let's hope they find a solution, and fast. Because we need it for sure to keep trust moving forward.

 

If it’s an Epic problem then DTG could do the honourable thing and simply not sell TSW6 on that platform full stop, until EGS recant. IMHO they need to grow a pair when dealing with situations like this. Force the issue.

 

If I was on Epic, I wouldn't even buy 6, even the free starter pack, and just stick with 5, at least until an explanation is made.

And you want to reward them by rebuying nearly your entire collection?

 

Dovetail are stuck between a rock and a hard place, as if they pull TSW6 from the Epic store, current users won’t have an upgrade path, however limited it may be. On the other hand future users may wander blindly in and start investing in DLC, when Steam is the far better option. Dovetail need to put up big warning signs to avoid this, or just pull it completely until Epic get their act together.

 

I'm on Steam but feel really bad for those players on Epic. I can't see any reason why, as others have already suggested, DTG can't offer Steam keys for all DLC previously purchased on EGS upon production of proof of purchase. And if they can't do that, they need to offer more than what they already have, ie nothing.

Shameful behaviour and has really put a downer upon the release. I was all set to purchase the deluxe edition for release date but think I'll just grab the free starter and hang on for a sale now, I don't really want to support a company that handles things this way. Despite hundreds of hours in every iteration of rail simulators they have produced.

 

I think it's more how they're handling it. As said previously, it looks like they're trying to hide something. Think back to when TSW2 was announced and they were very open and clear from the off that NEC wouldn't come across, and why.

 

I have to disagree with the notion that dtg shouldn't release tsw6 on epic as a result of this, since at the end of the day, that just puts epic players at an even worse situation. Better to have some content, than none at all, imo.

I also don't entirely understand why people keep demanding free steam keys for content they bought on epic, that's a whole bunch of potential lost sales for steam, so is something they'll never agree with, plus this is (presumably) epic's problem to solve, not steams

 

If you're getting a worse experience arbitrarily then I disagree, no reason Epic shouldn't allow for the carry forward of content when everyone else is seemingly fine with it. And if you draw equally arbitrary lines saying "Well we got to sell on X platform no matter the cost" you're just giving permission for them to bully you. Having the option to pull stuff from storefronts or anything else is a viable weapon, this is why big TV networks play hardball all the time. Sure it sucks short term, but ideally long term the ability to inconvenience people and show you're serious about potentially pulling is a powerful negotiation tactic that ensures everyone reaches the best compromise.

Far as I understand it Steam just lets you generate a unlimited amount of keys if you're a developer. It isn't like back in the day where making 10,000 copies of a game had actual material and storage costs to consider. And it's hardly a lose if a lot of said players probably aren't gonna be willing to spend $1000 to rebuild a collection. If anything there's gains long term though if that means people buy from their platform regularly after the fact.

 

It's a matter of weighing the goodwill generated by giving people access to their full collection on a new platform, leading to them continuing to buy, rather than likely abandoning your game on Epic - vs the value of forcing them to rebuy on another platform, and whether the income from those repurchases will outweight the lost future sales from people unwilling to do so who abandon the game entirely.

 

I for one am feeling somewhat vindicated right now in having flat out refused to get an Epic account all these years...

 

Vindicators was rather a good game

 

I got one but only when I thought DTG were giving us a decent hobby level route editor for TSW and you needed that to open the tool.

 

Yesterday, I opened a ticket on the DTG website to express my surprise and to exceptionally request that Epic add-on owners receive Steam keys to continue fully using TSW6.
I'm attaching DTG's response, which surprises me on two points:
- The reason for the choice of downloadable add-ons is not as stated in the FAQ (...The Epic Games Store will only support a curated selection of the most played compatible content.) but in relation to the layers of the new routes (...we've put together a list of 60 compatible add-ons, which includes content that layers onto the new routes).
- DTG doesn't mind that we're forced to play TSW5 and TSW6 concurrently. Of course, nothing is said about future updates to TSW5.

Here is DTG response of my ticket:

Welcome to Dovetail Support. My name is Chris and I look forward to helping you with today.

We understand how frustrating this news may be for Epic players, especially since it may feel unfair compared to other platforms. This does mean some route will be missing layers if the compatible content is not available. To help with this, we’ve put together a list of 60 compatible add-ons, which includes content that layers on to the new routes. Please know that we are doing everything we can to deliver the best experience possible. At this time, however, only a limited number of add-ons will carry forward into Train Sim World 6 on the Epic Games Store.

That said, none of your purchases are lost. Everything you own will remain available in the game it was purchased for, and you can continue to enjoy your content there. While we appreciate that keeping both versions installed may not be ideal, this will ensure that you can still access and play your favourite routes.

We sincerely apologize for any disappointment this may cause. We truly hope you’ll continue to enjoy your collection, whether it be in Train Sim World 5 or Train Sim World 6.

Kind Regards,

Chris
Player Experience Manager
Dovetail Support

 

Well, Epic is still giving out free games every week. I'm not refusing those. Usually not games I would've bought, but they can be good for a few hours of entertainment, or demoing out games.

Admittedly, even after getting Civ6 for free on Epic, I recently bought it on Steam. I cannot get used to Epics interface which seems so much inferior to Steam. I'd gladly pay an extra few euros so I don't have to use Epic and can enjoy the game on Steam. But it was nice to be able to try Civ6 for free on Epic first. Haven't spent a penny on Epic yet.

 

This is insane, that's like half of all DLC. And then what, when it gets back to 128 DLC, Epic players will have to go through all of this again because DTG is still selling the game on that terrible platform. Nobody's even trying to make it better right now, never mind thinking about the future. Apologizing doesn't do anything, they need to stop with that and at least take some action for the sake of the future.
This just makes me so mad the more that I think about it, and that there's people on this forum seriously defending all of this situation.

 

And my favourite bike in GTA Online...

 

I agree, I just described similar thoughts in the neighboring thread.

Once, I was very surprised when I tried to transfer folders with DLC and found that it was impossible and I would have to download about 100 GB from scratch.
In general, I am in shock how digital shops (Steam, EGS, Xbox, PS Store) allow DTG to load so many data that are essentially doubles and multiply from time to time with each annual TSW re-release.

 

Brush so till the 30th of September I will have to rebuild it again?

 

All of this so they can advertise in the "New Releases" section of every store front with the same core game as the previous version (kinda scummy). I'm not an epic player but this brings unsettling concerns.

Edit: How about they release a new starter pack every year (which will still put them in that "newly released" section for ad reason) and if the player wants to continue their journey after the starter pack then they need to download the one and only full version train sim world that everyone is on , then we can maintain all of our add-ons and cal train issues won't be a problem

 

If indeed the isssue is 128 dlc max what they need to do in my opinion is as follows

combine back all 3 core routes from TSW2,3 & 4 for epic players- work on the assumption that ownership of any grants ownership of the pack, or he vast majority of players will have all 3 any way. Immediately that frees up 6 slots

combine the game play packs into the base DLC, yes players may end up with more then they’ve purchased but they are pocket money anyway and the goodwill generated will far out weigh the cost

Couple up TSW2 content (including rush hour) either the loco pack with base route or similar interest routes. Again ownership of either will grant entitlement to the new double dlc.

surely this would more than cover the number of slots needed for TSW6 dlc and then if Epix haven’t resolved the issue by TSW7 further consideration can be made.

naturally the price for new purchases on epic will be reflected in the bulked nature (ie equal to the value of the individuals dlcs on steam for fairness.

the cost in terms of lost revenue of granting feee dlc to players will surely be offset by that fact that these are still available on epic compared tot eh current situation where no further sales are ever going to be made on that platform for DLC currently excluded from being ported over

 

Well I'm glad I didn't build up my library on epic games. The few games I have purchased on epic have required the publishers own games store to be installed alongside so I don't really see the point of buying anything else from epic.

I feel for people that have invested ££££s though. If it were me I'd probably be seeking legal advice right now.

 

Or split it into 2 games; TSW Germany, TSW Other

 

This must be the auto generated response poor old Chris must be assigned to reply to when inquiring about this topic since its word for word what mine was, along with auto closure of the ticket

 

I've always thought it was a poor editorial choice for DTG to offer us a new iteration of TSW every year, while other publishers offer new options or features in their games without making it a new title in its own right.
For the player, each time, they have to re-download all their content while keeping a copy of the previous version to deal with any potential issues.
For the stores, it's maintaining data redundancy. If I take the case of BR 155, this DLC is available individually for TSW 2, TSW 3, TSW 4, TSW 5, and soon TSW 6, i.e., 6 x ~150 MB for the same content.
Who would be willing to pay a data host for 900 MB of data when it can be reduced to 150 MB?
The question: Do stores charge for data hosting in addition to their commission on game sales? If so, this fiasco becomes understandable. And as a reminder, let's not forget that Train Sim World PC Editor (Beta) is exclusive to the EPIC store.

 

It's insane they would make that feature exclusive to one store, especially the less popular.

 

and I also add that the game engine of TSW6 is "UNREAL ENGINE" developed and owned by Epic...we really live in a crazy world

 

People come into these threads and say "Why are you blaming DTG?", "Its all Epic's fault and DTG is obviously blameless!", but its not clear either way at the moment. All DTG will say over and over is what they are doing in response to X, without saying exactly what X is. Maybe the problem is Epic forcing a cap on DLC numbers in which case yeah, its all on Epic. Maybe Epic wants to charge DTG for a large DLC catalogue or to setup all the entitlements in the new version and DTG don't want to pay, in which case DTG bears some responsiblity.

Somehow this decision benefits Epic or DTG or both (it sure as hell doesn't benefit TSW players on Epic Games) and so far as I can see they are both keeping mum on the actual reason.

I also think moving people to Steam seems like a pretty nuclear option but I don't think it would cost Steam or DTG that much. DTG would maintain the goodwill of loyal customers who would continue to purchase their content. Steam for the cost of comping some mostly older DLCs to move people over would then benefit from all future additions to those collections being Steam purchases.

It could be to both their benefits to try and salvage those loyal customers who are otherwise not going to put more money into an Epic Games collection and won't re-buy their collections on Steam. For me, even if all Steam sales were routes for 5 dollars and loco and rolling stock DLCs 2.50, it would still cost me a couple hundred dollars to re-buy everything on Steam.

I remain strangley hopeful that Epic or DTG or both realize what an absurdly bad move this is and will revert to migrating all compatible content on Epic Games again. Until then I've cleared by wishlist of TSW content and my wallet will remain closed.

DW

 

You’re building an entire argument on the basis of ‘maybe this, maybe that’ but none of us know the actual deal between DTG and EGS. DTG said what they’re doing in response, because that’s what they can control.

Handing out free Steam keys isn’t realistic either. Steam isn’t going to undercut its own sales like that, and DTG can’t just absorb the cost of thousands of keys for content that was purchased elsewhere. Moving everyone over might sound like a win win situation, but it’s legally and financially a nightmare.

As for the idea that DTG is somehow profiting off this. How? They are caught in a platform limitation that’s hurting their own sales too.

I get why you’re frustrated, but let’s not turn this into a conspiracy. The DLC you bought still works where you bought it. The carryover has always been a bonus, not a guarantee.

[EDIT - Jan - Insulting] Once again, if your DLC is working for the game you bought it for, then you are not entitled to any "Steam Keys".

 

Just a clarification: When I bought my versions of the game and my addons on the Epic platform, DTG was paid. DTG was happy to expand its audience with several platforms. So I consider that DTG has a great part of responsibility in the current problem because it received money from customers of the Epic platform.

 

I wasn't trying to build an argument, I was trying making the point that as you say, none of us know. People are laying blame at the feet of one or another but as far as I've seen no one from Epic or DTG have clearly said what the exact problem is.

Is it indeed a platform limitation? Has that been clearly stated anywhere?

DW

 

Hope we find out soon enough! But I do think they need to end this new game every year. Maybe one new game every 5 years since trophies / achievements are only on base game now in TSW6 no need for a new game to have fresh ones. I always think the end of one game with dlc them move to the next title feels rushed. I hope they sort it soon. But I fear the sheer number of dlc for TSW games is going to be a problem on ALL systems eventually. I can see DTG having to shift some content to legacy / bundle them together as someone mentioned previously to cut down the dlc numbers so a 313 with East coast way or TVL with 31 / 20 perhaps ? since they are old dlc now they may be able to do it

 

My top DLC that will be excluded is going to be stuff like Class 380/700, Cathcart, Edinburgh, like 80% of my rail tours, going to miss some German freight layers and the Koln 423 (pretty sad about that one too because the 423 is my fav German train)

Even Island Line 2022, which I need for LU services in the GWE Remaster... oh boy... it's going to be so much less immersive on the routes they curated for us, while not a ghost town, would be upsetting to see knowing you bought those DLC for layers and not having it there.

Pretty sad and disappointed overall.

And no Western Class 52 rail tour on Riviera even though I own the class 52... how nice...

M3 is gonna be missing on my LIRR route as well, again it's just gonna be less immersive on basically all of my routes, I'm not looking forward to it honestly...

Like they literally excluded almost all of my fav loco add-ons and trains/routes, I just feel really sad about this.

 

nekochanryan can you please Edit your'e earlier post instead of quote it. Thanks!

 

Yeah sure, sorry.

 

nekochanryan Thanks! No hate but i have notifications on and every time i will get a message there is a new reaction