What exactly do you understand under expert controls though? A brake lever will still be a brake lever, if you know what I mean. In that case I could imagine the control car would theoretically work with the older 101, except that with the control car you'd need to enter the data you usually don't. But why should the control car even be coupled onto a consist with the older 101 though?
As stated in the roadmap, there will be a menu setting to turn the advanced features off. I'm sure that that will apply to the cab car as well and not just the locomotive.
As far as DTG claims, simugraph simulates the UIC signals in the cable rather than talking directly between different models, so the expert loco should have same interface as everything else. Meaning that you should be even able to couple it to double-head with any non-expert loco with same cable and everything should still perfectly work.
What doesn't make sense to me is why "casual players" are demanding some casual mode for an expert loco, because there already is a casual version of the 101, and it works perfectly fine. What's the point of getting an expert version if you aren't planning to learn it? Show everyone off that "hey, I have it in my library, I'm an expert"? UPD: Yeah, I guess for the cab car, it would make sense to make a casual version.
I am assuming he is talking about the fact that in the MFD picture the light loco is limited to 100Kph (VMZ field). This could indicate some kind of fault (ie on one of the bogies), otherwise you could set this higher.
This is incorrect. Simugraph has nothing, directly, to do with the jumper cables. That is handled by special components that run independent of Simugraph. This is actually a good thing since Simugraph only runs on player consists while jumper cable signals can be transmitted on AI controlled trains as well. The downside with jumper cable signals (both IRL and in TSW) is that they require compatible cables. We have already seen such incompatiblity issues before (Class 158 vs Rivet 150 for example) In TSW the many of the UK trains have highly realistic jumper cable protocols with all the correct pins, but the German jumper cable protocol that has been used by pretty much every German train is not so good. A further issue is that the UIC cable utilizes (or the vehicles that use the UIC cables utilize, I should say) frequency or time division multiplexing which is not easily simulated by TSW JC protocols. All this is to say that the Expert BR101 and cab car uses a new jumper cable protocol to "fully" simulate the UIC cable. They also have the old jumper cable running in the background. All I can say right now is that the BR101 Expert is compatible with legacy UIC coaches and locomotives (but at reduced realism since the old JC is very basic). I can not speak to what kind of compatibility the cab car will have with older stock as of now. ##### Regarding "Simple mode" ###### First, call it normal mode instead. Definitely do not expect it to be simpler than a Vectron in terms of challenge. The only (as of now) settings that will change between "expert" and "normal" mode that I can confirm are these: 1. Whether the fault simulation is enabled or disabled by default. 2. Whether safety systems are enabled or disabled by default. (1) and (2) can then be independently be re-enabled or disabled by the player if they want something different (regardless of the main setting). I can also confirm that the screens will not change. There is no "simplified screens" mode. That wouldn't make sense anyway since with (1) and (2) in the "disabled" state you don't need to interact with the screens.
Because some of us might not already the 101, and also want the cab car? Realistically if the 101's even just a mild improvement is anyone gonna seriously recommend the old 101 going forward? Especially since the fact it's newer and has the cab car means all futures cases will probably mean the expert 101's gonna be the go to for layering in the future. I would point out many expert planes in flight sim have "easy modes" as well. Various airliners allow you to instantly boot up into various states, from completely cold and dark, all the way to take-off config. Many also support the default MSFS checklist and AI co-pilot as well, so you can have the sim largely do checklists for you. Even in TSC the FEF, Challenger, and Big Boy from Smokebox flat out have a auto-engineer, so you don't even need to drive beyond braking if you don't want. Such a casual oriented feature, yet it's also a feature that only the "Pro" engines have.
Can you already say whether EBuLa will be a topic and if it isn't already, could you consider implementing it until release?
I hope they both can be layered into the same service. I'd hate to see every route needing two timetables, an expert one and a "normal" one
As cwf.green said, the screens look like and operate the same on both settings. You just dont have to interact with it as much, if even. It will still yell at you if you mess up something (like the default malfunction message when you get a pzb brake), but you get rid of it just as easy as on other locos. Towards EBuLa: Dont expect anything, needs coreupdates, routeupdates,... at least if you want it to be fully dynamic. Maybe there are different solutions like a PRISMA-EBuLa XML style, but thats something to elaborate and will definitely take a long time to implement, time i want to spend on different, more important things first. Dont get me wrong, i know ebula is wanted since forever, but those are new additions which take their time. Oh and btw, yeah, i have a 101 rating irl and know that loco more than anything else on my long list of ratings. Thats why i decided to get my hands on that loco. Its a passion projekt, something i started working on over a year ago just because i love this loco so damn much. That said, take all in this post with a grain of salt. Its all not set in stone and its still some time till its done. I will watch the community here and on tsc tho, those last days were really interesting as of what gets thought bout the DLC. Makes it even more fun to put my time into that loco :3.
I am interested to learn how this point is managed in game later on, especially in timetable mode. In most cases I would be taking over an already set up train from another driver, hence, I would ultimately expect that this point has been taken care of (apart from from the Tf number, maybe) and I can start my shift with safety systems operative and programmed according to train performance. I am not sure I understand your point fully in this respect. If you say the safety systems are "enabled", are they pre-set-up for me and I just start driving and am able to use them? If they are disabled, does it mean I have to program them myself before I drive or does it mean I don't need them at all (non-expert mode)?
Do you know if things like the angle cocks on the expert BR101 will be usable, also are the IC coaches getting advanced versions as well or will they remain the same?
Maybe a little bit of indescreet question and don't mind answering if you don't want but how did you chirimu and cwf.green became members of TSG for this project? And how long (since when) do you work on this project together now? Because for now I thought TSG would mainly only consist of Maik Goltz and Lukas helping with the route creation. How is your team actually split up and who does take which job in project? Would be really interesting to know that.
What kind of level is to be expected? Needing to be a graduated professional train driver with a DB license and passed simulator examinations? Or some kind of pretending, thought up 'ultimate in realism' by DTG? Fancy displays that only need 'press Acknowledge' and enjoy the moving numbers, graphs and changing colours? A full fledged EBuLa? More SiFa, InduSI or EMTS antics? AFAIK, this will require significantly enhanced signaling logic and programming of the route. Thumbstick players already scrunch their thumbs into pain by having to control so many levers, buttons, switches and rotary dials? I seem to remember those playing Sandpatch Grade in the original iteration of TS2020 weren't too happy with all those valves at the foot of the console and switches in locked panels or behind engine hood doors ...
I own the current BR101, but haven't spent much time driving it since I bought it. But in general, I like driving most all the German trains. So I am interested in getting this expert BR101, out of curiosity if nothing else, even though I have the original. My only concern is if my knowledge is developed enough for it. I'm not a casual, but I'm also not a pro-sumer kind of player. I do try to learn everything I can when driving, and I like to challenge myself. But few of us have the time to really deep dive into literally every train in TSW and become an expert on them all, given the amount of content in the sim. But this being offered is worth a try to me, so I will certainly pick it up. Trying it out is the only way to know if I'll like it, or want more of these study-level trains going forward.
I feel your hope is misplaced, I legitimately think those with the shiny new expert 101 will get to use their cool new toy going forward. Meanwhile those with the old one probably can use it on those services only if they also own the expert version. To be fair on the flip you probably won't see HRR get updated for it, so you'll still need to buy that to then sub the expert 101 into that route. So sucks for someone like me who owns HRR, but doesn't own the old 101 and has no interest in the other routes the 101 is being made for. Might sound harsh, and technically it is speculation, but based on DTG's prior actions this is more than likely what will happen going forward. See Spirit of Steam users not getting anything for the WSR timetable, and Peak Forest users not being able to play steam tours that use the SoS stock like the one with Blackpool.
In one of the threads I suggested expanding on set of "properties" defined for each service, some flag of sorts "this train originates here" vs. "I am replacing the previous driver" should definitely be among them, and decide if the train is in well-defined state overall and just a quick check is sufficient, or if you should check, set, turn on and prepare everything by yourself, because the spawning state is randomized.
There's no inherent difference between the two, except spending time in institutions that would check your knowledge and give you the license. I have no rail IRL experience, but when it comes to aviation, a pilot in a physical plane has to do much less than in a plane made of pixels, because so many things are done by the dispatch, and all one needs to do is enter the uplink address, download all the data, and quickly verify. In simulation, the purpose is to add more tinkering, so it's interesting and allows one to train, on the job, the purpose is to reduce the amount of tinkering as much as possible, to reduce the driver fatigue and distractions. The dev above outright said to not expect EBuLa, since it would require core simulator features that do not exist in the current iteration of TSW4. It's a well established understanding that a gamepad is not an optimal controller for any sort of simulator, and a home gaming console is not an optimal platform for one. "Optimization" efforts of Microsoft is exactly what made MSFS'20 completely unsuited for me and my needs with a flight simulator.
I highly doubt they'll drop the old 101. I see no reason why. I expect instead of a 2 minute startup time cold starts and coupling will be more present. also switching ends. that's now. even for shunting services split into multiple parts so you have no switching ends at all. so I'd say where possible, the timetalbles will be made for the expert 101, and maybe a setting since the lack of cab car on the standard one, to have the standard version with limited playable services. I'm wondering about what happens and nobody seems to have an answer so I expect that's also still only in the idea form with no clear way on how DTG or TSG are gonna implement it.
Too true. I mainly run TSW4 on the PC but also have TSW3 on the PS5. Trying to do even basic stuff with the joypad is a pain in the rear side due to the limitation on button pushes and trying to remember combos. Need to cancel the auto bell on a US freight loco after sounding the horn? No joypad command. Need to switch on the cab light or windscreen wipers? Eek. Need to activate the master switch which is hidden behind the reverser or power handle? Forget it. I’m going to play WRC instead. And I feel your pain re MSFS though mainly because it’s a hard drive hog. FSX still rules my virtual skies even though not exactly current hardware and O/S friendly.
If they consider other expert locos, which im very much hoping for, would be good to have a railjet formation full in expert line.
Train data is usually only input when the locomotive is first started up, the formation is changed or if there is a fault. In TSW there are mainly two types of service start conditions: 1. Scheduled stop. This type of start condition would have all preparations already performed: the locomotive is fully started up and the train has been charged, train line enabled and lights turned on. Train data has either been input by the previous driver or the same driver. The cab is active, reverser is in forward. Either a small train brake application or full direct brake will have been applied to hold the train while passengers are boarding. 2. Crew change. This start condition is essentially the same as (1) except here the train brake might be in Full Service and the direct brake is released. The last start condition is "Parked" aka "Cold and Dark". This is very rarely seen in services in TSW (for a few reasons I won't go into now). In this start condition the locomotive will have been powered down (MCB open, pantographs down, battery turned off). Due to how most German locomotives act this will also means that the Parking Brake has been applied and the brake pipe is empty. In TSW terms the startup will take at least 5 minutes, but probably closer to 10 minutes. With realistic brake tests required it might even be an hour An even more extreme form of "Cold and Dark" could be called "Cold, Dark and Dry" where the locomotive/train is almost/fully uncharged as well. That is the main reservoir, auxiliary reservoir (brake and pantograph) and control reservoirs have been drained. Minimum time to prepare would probably be 15-20 minutes. Cold, Dark and Dry is probably not something you want to have to prepare more than a few times since it's a lot of waiting. It is more fitting for a scenario (where you can kill some time by explaining other systems or with some form of filler "dialogue"). TLDR Start conditions 1 and 2 requires that train data is automatically input, for realism. I can't go into more detail at this time. The only thing I can say at this time is that the IC coaches included with the BR101 Expert have been updated simulation wise. Actually "updated" is not really the correct word. Both the BR101 and IC Coaches in the Expert DLC are completely rebuilt in terms of physics and simulation scripting. They have essentially nothing in common with the old DLC, except that they obviously are simulating the same prototypes.
Again I would point to czech (freeware!) models for TSC which basically all start in this very state and it's not a problem for anyone You have to take care about everything including auxiliary compressors to be able to operate stuff, and you are usually rather busy the whole time. The only longer downtime is when the train is filling, and you would likely use that time to set up radio and screens. Whole process takes roughly five minutes, and for more practical use (and for using the loco in scenarios), a shortcut is provided that on first press turns on and prepares everything, and on second press fills the train as well.
This sounds like a perfect solution so everyone is happy. I would personally like the extra work of a cold start when doing a shunting service for a train which has been in the yard all night.
Sometimes the Expert (or Pro) line in Train Simulator is known to offer absolutely non-Pro quality. So, before purchasing let's see what it will be like in TSW. I have already purchased two of DB 101... I also knew that TSG products were already expert without the need for the wording. If necessary I will also purchase a third DB Br 101 (due to the cab car) but know that I am deeply disappointed.
How many times? The first time my avatar enters a cab of any pro-range locomotive I press the 'quick start' button and watch the script at work ...
How many times? I don’t get your question. I just think that having the option of setting the train up as a cold start if you want on services you would. Of course taking over a through service will not be a cold start. But for cold start I’d like the process described by noir and for people who don’t want it a button like TSC apparently has. I haven’t played any TSC expert loco’s so I don’t know much about them.
I own the DB BR 101 original, and just like the LIRR Commuter, this is a slap in the face for me as I own both the original LIRR and the DB BR 101.
You can't expect a new (expert level) DLC for free. DTG never advertised that the IC Cab car will come at a later point. It was crystal clear that the BR 101 Loco DLC consists of the BR 101 and 2 coach types. So it's up to your own expectations that you feel that way. We can hope for a little preorder/loyality discount tho.
I hope we get a loyalty discount more than 10% and on ALL platforms, not just Steam. Since I have TSW4 on PS5.
Rooting for you! But don't have high hopes. Discounts on console are rare because of Microsoft and Sony.
I mean I am excited because I've been wanting the cab car for ages, and I am eager to try out the "expert" mode (in quotation marks because I don't think that it is going to be Zusi-level expert), especially because TSG is developing it which we all know he always delivers, never fails (420 wasn't his fault IMO). I can understand why it is going to be a separate product, especially since the BR 101 we currently have wasn't made with the cab car in mind, especially not with an expert mode
So you're saying tsg, the team that put hundreds of hours into making a train study level, should work for free and not be paid for their efforts? It takes a ton of work to add things that have never been in tsw. How about all the paid study level planes in msfs? Are they free because msfs already has it as part of the base content?
TSC isn't running a timetable. The reason all trains in TSW TT mode, aside from permanently static ones, are never cold and dark is because the sim AI can't start them up from that condition. Now, I do think a cold start scenario or two would be great- those don't have the above problem, because all AI trains in a scenario are scripted.
Actually, if the AI is given control of a shut down train it will happily drive it around with the engine off.
True, but imagine they'd implement shut down trains in the timetable... People would definitely be complaining about AI running shut down trains then. Can't make it right for everyone.
I agree, this would create bugs with rushed releases and a.i run services with pantograph down. But i would like to see the option in creatorsclub formation designer / freeroam to place the loco cold & dark.
Definitely! Would be a blast if we had the option to also do actual stops in free roam too, but that‘s on another page.
Sorry to bump this thread, and sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else I didn't see, but having looked back over the photos, and after hearing JD's comment about a leak in the image on the roadmap stream, I got the impression the expert 101 might also now potentially release in IC white livery too?
I doubt that there is a BR 101 in orient red, but I wonder about the black stick things on it´s front - doesn´t look like a wiper
Halfway… sort of. I’ve never seen it clearly defined anywhere but as far as I know, the first 3 101s had the traffic red design with the white bars but the shade of red used was still orient red (instead of the proper traffic red). Every 101 after those had the traffic red design and the traffic red shade of red. Later, the first 3 were repainted to match the others. Take it with a grain of salt though. That’s what I read when I looked into it some time ago but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a proper source for it.
I am looking forward to reading/studying the manual and learning some more shenanigans for preparation and driving of the loco, especially the failures that might randomly happen, anxious, but excited at the same time
