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Feedback Re: Köln-aachen Stream

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by NekoNina, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. NekoNina

    NekoNina Well-Known Member

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    Hello,
    just wanted to quickly say that I do not like Sam's style of driving, as it lacks professionalism. Instead of showing exactly, what's new and what's included, we got to see Matt giving Sam a lecture in PZB/LZB.
    I personally would love to either see Sam try to seriously play the game or just let Matt play for the next streams. It gets rather frustrating to watch Sam in his Colonel Failure persona to me.
    Thank you and greetings.
     
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  2. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    I agree what is with his style of driving DTG Protagonist (Bad Joke)
     
  3. AlexNL

    AlexNL Well-Known Member

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    I second this. I was expecting this stream to show off a bit more of the route itself, rather than two A-B drives nearly completely from the cab viewpoint. Also, the presentation style was rather cringeworthy - I would have expected a showcase of the content, not Matt telling Sam how to even drive the train in the first place or how to read the signals.
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think that with Matt telling Sam what to do, he was also giving viewers a pretty good tutorial as well. He could have whizzed through it all himself and not given as much detail as he did.

    The stream may have been some people’s first time seeing any TSW stuff and even for experienced users there were new systems on the ICE to showcase. I found it quite useful. Could we have seen a little more scenery? Yes of course but there was still enough to get a feel for what the route and trains are like.
     
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  5. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    For showing off the trains at their best, whilst I really do like Sam, I think Matt would be better giving the demonstration as he clearly has the knowledge how everything works. But I did enjoy the stream tonight.
     
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  6. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    We'll flip it around for the next one. Thanks for the feedback.
     
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  7. dskxalive

    dskxalive Active Member

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    Personally, watching someone play the game “seriously” gets boring very, very quickly. Sam livens it up whilst still showing off everything that Matt would have done in a “serious” drive. If a random person joins the stream and just sees Matt sitting there quietly driving, or just explaining PZB and Sifa, the chances are they’ll turn off pretty quickly. I personally think they got it bang on with the ICE drive. Sam was there as the entertainer, whilst Matt brought the knowledge which was really interesting to listen too.

    Sam also shows that you don’t have to be a hardcore simmer to play the game and that any Tom, LOVE or Harry can pick up a controller and have fun with it. At the end of the day, they’re advertising the game to everyone, so they need to show that everyone can play it the way the want too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
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  8. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    I love your driving, yes it's mayhem sometimes but does tickle me Sam!
     
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  9. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    This it totally fair. To be fair. Maybe they should stick to how they did it tonight.
     
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  10. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    I felt the stream was interesting, and appreciated seeing more of what we primarily do -- drive a train.

    As a more casual enthusiast, I appreciated the tips that Matt offered, and came away with a bit more knowledge (along with renewed enthusiasm in being able to play TSW 2).

    While driving a train may be a serious profession, I'm glad that Matt and Sam enjoy the experience, and have fun along the way.

    Thanks for the stream!
     
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  11. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I like your driving style, but the swap might help with these more... crucial streams. Not to upset Matt, but I think you on the other can keep up with chat a bit better than him.
     
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  12. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    Good thing I took the bus (Bad Joke Again)
     
  13. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Noooo! You had it spot on the way it was done, many of us who don't know much about PZB/LZB and other German safety systems would of been doing more or less the same and it was good that you were guided by Mat.
     
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  14. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Certainly wasn't the best way to showcase a new game. Let's just bang the throttle to 100% right from the word go. Where was the wheel slip?

    Very pretty train game for young kids to play on their consoles, full throttle, full brake, rack up the points and win some medals.

    Didn't look massively different to it's predecessor to say it's supposed to be a new game. The new HUD is ok apart from the gradient display, why does it need the huge train on it?

    I like the style of the new fonts but they are way too small in places.

    Maybe let Matt showcase it in future if you want to sell it as a serious train simulator.
     
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  15. Easilyconfused

    Easilyconfused Member

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    I disagree with that on 2 grounds.

    1. When you have ~2000 people across 2 platforms the chat is not going to be kept up with. This was sort of addressed at the beginning of the stream and the moderators did try to point people to where they might get answered i.e. these forums.
    2. When the stream audience collectively loses their heads and several dozen of them are spamming "horn" then the chat moves so quick no questions are going to get answered. I think restream bot had stopped working for a bit when that happened tonight on YouTube so it possibly did not leak over to twitch via restream bot.
    Quite frankly expecting questions to be answered on a stream like tonight's is unrealistic. A few might be but many will be lost in the chatter, much of which was questions already answered multiple times on previous streams i.e. how much does it cost, when is it out, is it for consoles etc.
     
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I've never understood why these basic questions continue to be asked...do these people actually know how to use the internet? They could get the answer they want in 5 seconds after throwing it into google
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  17. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    No they live under a rock
     
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  18. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Have you been living under a rock? Also, Google exists.
     
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  19. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry you didn’t like the stream, the best part about Train Simulator World you can play it as serious or un-serious as you want. A German ICE3 train wouldn’t have much wheel slip in dry weather especially as it has systems to prevent that. I suggest tuning into the Sandpatch stream as that will be more likely the best place to show it off, in which case the way Sam drives will be perfect! As for being a very pretty train simulator for young kids to drive on their console, I totally agree! You can also enjoy it as an adult as well and I would say you would get more enjoyment out of it and appreciate a lot of the smaller details and that’s a cool thing. As for TSW2, the game looked great. All the visual improvements and the improvements we can’t see seem like good ones. Adhesion physics as well as weight system upgrades. It seems worth the $30 to get TSW2 as it will be a much better foundation to build upon for future routes. I hope you enjoy the next stream more!
     
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  20. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    IDK if this is a joke or not but he knows how much it is & he is a mod on twitch or youtube
     
  21. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Probably a misunderstanding rather than a joke as that portion of a longer sentence had been quoted before and looked like an actual question being asked. Made me chuckle though.
     
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  22. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    haha yep, that was my fault. I'll go back and edit my post to include the context of the quote
     
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  23. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    I personally thought the stream was great, and offers something different to the previous way on how new TSW content was presented. Those old streams felt rather slow paced and were quite bleak.
    But seeing Matt and Colonel's different personalities clash was rather amusing, I genuinely had a few chuckles here and there and came out having learned a few new things about how the ICE works. Can't really complain much about that! :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  24. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that the cab lights cast shadows in the cab now. :)
    The lighting in TSW2 is so much better than TSW1. Even on a dev build + stream.
     
  25. jeanmarc094

    jeanmarc094 Active Member

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    what ever happens...Matt for bakerloo!!!!
     
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  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think the stream was a good balance, you got to see the route how many will see it from, from the cab. I think Sam makes it light hearted whilst keeping a serious element, and Matt added the interesting technical bits, I personally don't think it needs "flipping around". I think it would have been harder for Matt to have gone into so much detail if he had been concentrating on driving.

    I got a lot from it and would call myself a "serious enthusiast" not a casual gamer, I would hope a serious enthusiast isn't so stuck up that they can't enjoy a bit of light heartedness! Let face it, when it comes out we will have every opportunity to drive it seriously.

    I would say it was accessible also, for those who are a more casual enthusiast or not even a train enthusiast but someone who likes simulation games.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  27. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    The tone of a video is always going to be subjective, but I felt they struck a reasonable balance.
    I don’t care for 100% acceleration and braking and suspect Sam won’t last long driving in the real world.
    Wonder what his car passengers say, doubt it’s “Grip it and rip it!

    That said I would have liked to have seen more of the scenery as I usually drive with the enhanced cab view.

    I also liked Matt’s pzb explanations.
    It would be great if he made a safety systems tutorial video.
     
  28. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to watch it again later on my gaming TV, watched it in my iPad last night. I want to see what it looks like on my TV now though.
     
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  29. olikas.g

    olikas.g Member

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    I like the casual nature of the streams. It shows that most procedures are not necessary for the train to move. The passengers are not simulated (they don't complain about drive quality, they don't care about late trains), I see little point in being very strict. The employers and regulators are not simulated either. You don't lose your license for speeding, or overrunning the platform or having fun.

    I also find it a bit funny that some people here complain that there was too much cab view and not enough scenery while others for not taking the train driving seriously.

    To be honest about wheel slip and modern traction, I've seen the Combino trams driven way too many times. Most drivers used Sam's technique of "grip it and rip it". Then slam the brakes and the automatic system applies the sand. I would be very surprised to see a ICE ever wheel slip with all those electric systems.
     
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  30. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Active Member

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    I think some people don't know who 'DTG Protagonist' is but that's fine if they don't. I have a few friends who play the game exactly how Sam does. They don't take it seriously and enjoy gripping and ripping it and exploring. I personally think it was great seeing and hearing Matt showing Sam what to do because it goes to show how quickly and relatively easy it can be to learn things which I think will be relatable to many newcomers that TSW2 will bring.
     
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  31. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    In principle, watch someone else to play your favourite game seriously is boring. I would like to see two things of such a devstream:

    1. I would like to have an idea of the features, have at least some idea on what to expect. I think some more time is needed to show us around a bit. I think Matt can do that very well.
    2. Experience some driving. For this driving by Sam works perfectly well, because he makes mistakes, distracted and gives a fairly realistic view of what a beginning player may experience. Matt is nearby to give some good driving tips. This is OK

    For me, this was fun watching it. There are certainly more driving tips to give. Personally I prefer a written manual, because it is much easier to find information back.
     
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  32. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    On reflection, I think Sam is best suited to drive the train and Matt to guide him where necessary. I did enjoy the stream.
     
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  33. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    This is all excellent feedback. To summarise:
    - those who want to see how realistic a sim we've built, and to discover details from the gameplay were disappointed and would prefer Matt to drive
    - those who aren't familiar with German safety systems appreciated the tutorial section

    As we said a few times on the stream, the German route isn't the best to show off adhesion changes because the trains are best equipped to apply power correctly for the situation. It should manifest more clearly when we look at Sand Patch Grade and Bakerloo Line.

    On a purely personal note, I already know that my "play for fun" style is at odds with more serious simmers, so criticism in that direction is not taken personally. We'll have Matt drive on the next route and then you can compare/contrast to see which approach you like better.
     
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  34. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Matt has a lot of hours using the german safety systems, so he pretty much uses it in "autopilot" in the same way you drive your car from work to home. He can drive the train and explain what he is doing at the same time. I've seen him do it in his personal Twitch channel.

    On the other hand, the stream pretty much demonstrates that anyone that is willing to spend 30 mins to read the instructions carefully can use the german safety systems without any trouble.
     
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  35. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Having just rewatched the stream on my gaming TV, I have made the following observations:
    • The distance to destination text in the upper left and on the objective marker is far too small. The distance to destination could do without the icon, which could enable that text to be bigger.
    • The text in the pause menu, particularly for the schedule screen is too small to read comfortably.
    • When zooming in, for me personally, the zoom could go a little further. When looking at the screens, especially on the ICE 3M, the text on the display - especially over the buttons is straining on the eyes.
    • The interior of the ICE 3, in the 2nd class cabin has an incorrectly positioned door and is numbered as if 1st class incorrectly.
    • The sound outside the cab, as raised by Sam in the video stream is exceptionally loud. Not sure if this is a bug related to the developer build, but yikes.
    • The AFB Blue area on the HUD is not as clearly visible as it maybe could be. Especially when the current speed and AFB target speed match.
    • I’ll reiterate that AFB control, sanding, PZB end/release/override has to be mapped to the PS4/Xbox One controller. Especially given how much time is spent using these functions with the ICE 3M. I don’t want to be taking my eyes off the line and missing important signals when jiggling levers and pressing buttons like a brain damaged monkey.
    • The middle, scrolling line on the ICE 3M destination board seemed almost entirely illegible, but that might have been the camera angle.
    • Why do you hear passengers talking in German in German routes, but don’t hear passengers talking English on English routes. Is that to emphasise we are in Germany?
    • Some of the numbers could be bigger on the HUD (brake dials, etc).
    You’ll probably think from most of these observations that I’m blind as a bat. Whilst I do need glasses, I’m not blind, but the small text does cause quite a lot of eye strain, which can easily be avoided.
     
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  36. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I actually think Matt and Sam make a great team. I enjoyed watching Sam drive and Matt explaining things. It lets Sam ask questions while driving and gives Matt the time to explain it to us as he is on the development team. If Matt is driving and explaining things it doesn’t give much for Sam to do. While watching the stream it made me think of the older streams we used to get with Matt and Dmitri, and it made me appreciate how much more engaging and interesting it is with Matt and Sam.
     
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  37. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That's not the passengers talking.
     
  38. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so you told us what it isn't. Do you know what it is?
     
  39. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Generic platform announcements.
     
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  40. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Surely it was Sam sotto voce, displaying his true mastery of the German tongue.
     
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  41. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Please keep it a nice mix. Both styles have value.
     
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  42. dskxalive

    dskxalive Active Member

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    A couple points I’d just raise about the new HUD:

    1) At the top left corner there’s 2 times; current time and time due at next stop. But just next to that it says where your next stop is and at what time you are scheduled to arrive. I just don’t really see the point in having the same information displayed twice right next to each other. It’s kind of pointless.
    2) I agree with other feedback that font sizes needs to be altered. Text such as distance to next stop (both on the top left of the HUD and the track marker) both need making larger, where-as the gradient indicator at the bottom right just looks absurdly big with a lot of empty space around it.
    3) I find the old speedometer easier to read. With the new one I think it had increments of 70kmh? Just seems such a random figure and it’s difficult to see what speed you are going between those marks (i.e If a speed limit of 40kmh was coming up, you’d be guessing at where that is on the dial compared to the old dial where it was clearly marked in increments of 10). The new red speed limit line and dot on the HUD also looked difficult to see.
    4) There is a lot of information shown on the hud and it takes up quite a bit of screen real estate. I would like to see something akin to F3 HUD in TS Classic where it would just show you a basic HUD (maybe just showing the digital speed reading rather than the whole dial). Obviously not something I’d expect for release, but something I’d like to see down the line.

    This is all with the caveat of what was seen on the stream, so there was some quality/ compression issues, but I think most points would still stand once we get hands on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  43. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Who is it then? Aliens?
     
  44. jeanmarc094

    jeanmarc094 Active Member

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    i agree with the first. didnt realise that.
     

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