How about this: Everyone calms down and moves on from the 170 preview because it is a WIP and a preview. It is not the final version, we did not get a comprehensive preview of the sound as, at best, we got idling and a bit of acceleration from a closed and then opened window. Once it's released, then everyone will be in a better position to share with the world what they think of the final product. Right not it's just a lot of unhinged casting of opinions, in my opinion, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Rivet don't read these forums because of how toxic people get so no wonder some things go under the radar because i know I certainly wouldn't want my team to experience some of the messages people throw up here.
Also i think its worth people asking themselves before they post here: do you think posting a scathing opinion on something marked as WIP actually does anything? If you are going to take the time to post your thoughts, look around at others who have taken the time to be more calm and constructive. If devs do come in here, they are going to ignore anyone frothing at the mouth with unhinged rage. If you are this passionate about them getting it right, make a Rivet Games forum account and leave them a constructive post detailing feedback you have for them in a nice, amicable and friendly way because they wont fix what don't know is broken or wrong.
First of all, this route is being published by DTG. Secondly I can name many products that were work in progress but released with many issues or poor sounds/physics. The class 385, Class 150, GE4/4. SEHS was a mess when it released but luckily got better when they extended the route and the list goes on. People with a knowledge of this game knows that work in progress means absolutely nothing for the most part. The criticisms here are not invalid just because you don't agree with them
Plenty of them are invalid as they are massively overblown, and downright hostile in the way they are being presented.
Do you believe in change? As others have said, everyone is quite rightly entitled to their opinion and it should be welcomed. But the way people are presenting their opinions is awful and what they are basing it on, as of now, is quite poor IMHO.
They have different teams. Sound team members only do sound, not plushies. Environment teams make the environment, not plushies
I do believe in change. But I and others also recognize that given their past behavior, the sounds as will most likely be as is when it releases. I would love to be wrong but players have many times gotten their hopes up only to be disappointed over and over again. These criticisms are not unvalid, overblown nor baseless.
And when has something being just "work in progress" ever meant things have been fixed for release? And I am doing something about it- voicing my grievances on a forum which the developers should be reading, and not buying it unless they fix things.How do you propose we're supposed to let developers know we aren't happy with their products. Just grin and bear it? This is part of what these forums are made for.
Lots of things have been fixed during a WIP screenshot prior to release. It’s amazing how people can forget things they choose to rather quickly.
They are basing it on history and that Rivet has released a number of routes which are not up to standard, patched some things and left other elements unpatched to this day. This is not just the odd route either it has occurred on multiple occasions. WIP hopefully does mean lots of elements are improved but past history says otherwise. An assumption of change only happens unless history tells us otherwise... We may all get a pleasant surprise and its much better than expected. If developers do read this and ensure it is a more polished product, the result we all wanted has been achieved. Next time the comments will be more supportive if we are all proved wrong. Rivet make great looking trains let down often by poor physics, bugs and sound.
I'd love for you to give me some notable examples, because I can't think of any meaningful ones. The 150 was still "WIP" when it was first shown. Is it any better? What about the 385? What has you convinced that Rivet are at all capable of making a decent 170, or any DMU for that matter? All we have to base our assumptions on are their past products, and the preview they just released. The fact thet they've shown it to us in that state must mean they know it's very close to completion, so I highly doubt there'll be any meaningful change.
Of course! My mistake! The 150 is only mildly awful now instead of completely awful! How could I have forgotten?! As for improvements to the 385 erm... Err.... The running sounds only sound desktop fan now instead of a jet engine like they initially did?
We haven't even seen the route yet! Rivets routes are generally very good. This thread has become a let's bash the sounds thread. The route hasn't even got a release date yet. If the sounds are poor I will be the first person not to purchase it but I will wait to hear what it actually sounds like on a proper build first.
I agree with this for the last time just accept yes it’s not good enough but still have hype either way and wrap the bickering we’re all here for the same passion aren’t we? Trains!
I’d go further and say that even if the sounds aren’t great in the final build that I will still buy it. I’m not going to deprive myself of another good route to drive around just because the diesel sound is the wrong pitch or the train revs up too quickly. I’d be mad to do that. I’d have no content if I only bought stuff that had great sound. I’ve gone beyond expecting everything to be perfectly recreated in TSW. I want stuff with fewer bugs but a train that somewhat resembles the train in question will do for me. That doesn’t mean that people with knowledge of how the train should sound are wrong to be pointing this out to Rivet in an attempt to get it better. But in many cases I don’t think that’s the motivation of some people on the forum. They just like to bash everything.
Agreed. As long as the audio of the train is believable, and isn't bad quality (weird looping/artefacts) I'm fine with it. Like all the people losing their minds that DTG used Talent 2 audio on the Talent 1, then acting like it was the end of the world. People need to re-evaluate how serious they are taking a game, a simulation game yes, but still a game.
On the other hand and not that we're likely to get it, a Sulzer Type 2 - 24, 25, 26 or 27 - aliased to a Class 37 or even the more deeper sounding Class 33 would not be acceptable. Part of the appeal of these games is to relive a little bit of history, what we experienced in our younger days and if it ain't right, it ain't right.
I would say there’s a difference between perfect sounds & a train sounding very different to how it should. I don’t really think a precedent should be set for simply making diesel trains sound diesel & electric trains sound electric etc. Personally I think the best way to summarise that video is ‘as expected’.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree. For me, sounds are absolutely vital to how immersed I get in the game. I expect a 170 to sound like a 170, not just a generic DMU. I'm more forgiving towards EMUs as they don't have as diverse a sound set. I can just about tolerate the 385 on Edinburgh Glasgow, but I'd love to see it improved. The train is always more important than the route for me, and if the train is sub par when it comes to an aspect as important to me as the sounds, then I cannot bring myself to buy it, even if the route itself is very well made.
Right, but audio is only a part of it. It's not the be all and end all for a lot of people. I relive my childhood through the 158, visually and through the interior. The audio doesn't come in to it for me. As long as it sounds "Close Enough" I'm fine with it. The 170 certainly sounds "Close enough".
Amusingly your profile picture is a screengrab or screenshot of their 170 so they can't be THAT bad right? Ok but all this discussion has been for the past 10 or 20 posts is people literally going around in circles whinging about the same thing and not actually doing anything constructive? All based on very very little information. It's getting boring and this isn't a thread dedicated to people talking explicitly about the 170 preview and the incredibly limited preview of the sound. Can we just drop it and move on? Because nothing is actually being achieved and it's descending the thread into more negativity and achieving nothing.
I am sure the route will be very well modelled so they probably would have to be pretty awful sounds for me not to buy it, i.e if it sounds like a class 101. I would end up buying it when the class 158 is released anyway.
Talking about the route being modeled very well I hope with today’s roadmap we get a bunch of new screenshots of the route. Some pics of the Forth Bridges would be very nice to see.
They really arent jack.... maybe you dont travel on turbostars often but I travel on 171s frequently.
They were when I posted that as I only had a quick look at the preview. Now I've had a proper look, however, I realise they arent.
I applaud you for being able to determine that in a preview of a clearly marked WIP and only getting a snippet of the audio. Again can we drop this and move on? There is no point trying to dismiss each other for having different opinions at this point.
So people should just not say anything when they see something clearly wrong. People should just not saying anything when a game that advertises itself as a authentic simulator releases a product with poor sounds? People shouldn't expect to have a product that lives up to the advertising of TSw? Yes it's just a game but the trains are a fundamental part of tsw and sounds are a key part of the simulation. This is a business that is charging money for a product and just because we don't have to buy does not make it immune from criticism. The criticisms for the sounds of the Talent 1 being completely inaccurate were not unfair criticisms. After all DTG say that they are open to criticisms yet we have people here who seem to have a problem with pointing out the fact that the sounds of the Class 170 are not great or awful. What is wrong with saying that something is awful? When people rightly point out the fact that W.I.P of a product doesn't necessarily mean the final product will change given past history, that is also a problem because apparently, people here can't handle criticism from what it looks like just because it is a route that they are looking forward too and don't want people saying negative things about it I am looking forward to the Suffragette Line and if it is good, then I may pick it up but despite the fact that that there are already criticisms of that route, I don't have a problem with those criticisms and will not get up in arms about it.
See this? Please stop. I get it but now it's getting old. Can we move past this? If you want to discuss the class 170 at this point, make a new thread and continue discussing there.
This route is about the Fife Circle Line. The Class 170 is part of the route. I'm not breaking forum rules and will not be told where I can post. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone told you not to post you're thoughts on the forum. If you don't like what I am saying, or don't want people to have criticisms of the 170 on this thread, then you can just easily ignore those posts or simply not respond to them.
Actually the Talent 1 criticisms were unfair. DTG said OBB wouldn't let them record them, so they had to reuse sounds. They tried to source them, but were unable to. Then you had people on here saying that if they can't get 100% accurate audio, they shouldn't make the train. Which frankly is dumb.
Right, but again this is a lot of drama over a preview build of the DLC - we've not even seen the rest of the route.
Well there are many Austrian routes that could've been made instead. I and others agree that if they can't get proper reference material for a route or train, then it shouldn't be made. Clearly DTG got that message and rightfully so. Of course you don't have to agree but I don't believe that it was unfair.
So what? The train is part of the route. You can build a 100 mile route but it will be mostly pointless if you don't have the train to run on it. The train is the key part of the route. If I were to discuss the 170 in a non critical manner, you wouldn't have a problem with it nor would've told me to post my positive thoughts in a different thread. When people have discussion threads for any route, the train is always part of the discussion.
how do you know they didn't hit a dead end with other routes or locos or brands? Maybe that route was their only sensible choice
That is unfair, as that will permanently rule out huge swathes of rail content EVER getting made. It's that dumb idea that has now resulted in us no longer getting anymore US freight, because some people can't accept the audio being a little bit off when there is no other choice. As long as all reasonable efforts have been followed to obtain accurate audio, complaining about it is unreasonable.
Then, as wild as a concept it might sound, maybe we should just wait till more updates come out and we see how things are looking closer to the release date?
Oh I highly doubt that very much especially considering the fact that we are getting another OBB route. There are many routes that DTG can choose to make. Their options are not limited
I would hazard to say that people are forming opinions based upon Rivets previous work, where the WIP walkarounds have often not seen significant change in the release build. Rivet have also given themselves a reputation for less than accurate soundsets, among other things. if you’re genuinely as offended as you’re making out to be by certain opinions, just ignore them. You repeating the same thing over & over isn’t going to change their opinion. The same feedback is being left everywhere this preview video has been posted, people are worried that the sounds won’t be correct, because Rivet have cemented a pattern of not giving trains their correct sounds. Ultimately the sounds are objectively wrong & anyone thinking that fact wouldn’t have been pointed out, is being quite naive.
I mean, their options are 100% limited, there is only so much track in Austria, especially track that wouldn't need the Talent 1.
What doesn’t make sense? The fact that there are many routes that DTG can make in TSW. DTG have options. Now I'm not denying that there may be hurdles, but it's not like DTG couldn't have made a route other than the S-Bahn Voralberg for TSW 4. Those criticisms were not just on the forums just like the criticisms of the Class 170. I don't expect 100% accuracy on everything but it is not unreasonable for a game that advertises itself as a authentic simulator to have realistic or close to realistic sounds. Sure you may have lower expectations, but just because your expectations are lower does not make criticisms of the sound invalid because it's not what you want to hear.
