Upcoming Release Frankfurt S-bahn: Coming Soon!

Not a question but a request: can you have the FPS counter on during the live stream?

 

True but PS5 got the full timetable for FTF so I'm leaning towards the Fernbahnhof traffic being what tips it over the edge.

 

But that's only what 530 services at most (I have basically all packs except a 363) , the new S-Bahn is 1000, hence why console is getting 600..

I dont think FTF is the full picture and could be bigger with more AI and maybe a larger S-bahn schedule? I have a modded Munich-Augsburg TT that has 2024 services, and that doesn't include non-drivable AI (and thankfully not a single issue, touch wood!)

 

I mean, if it comes up, an extension of the S-bahn services down to the Tief platforms wouldn't be the worst either, hint hint...

Seriously though, thanks for explaining what's going on with the console issues, definitely appreciate it's like trying to find a needle in a very large haystack!

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I really appreciate your hard work and I am looking forward to future updates on your progress.


Best regards,

Nick

 

Both can be true. However, while "memory issues" can be fixed to an extent (and you can't quantify them they're just guessing), the console/PC specs and issue are clearly laid out and an obstacle. Therefore it's the most applicable to address.

 

Some of the customers only own bowls that are 40% of the size, and have forks instead of spoons to eat with. And then complain when they get smaller servings and they cannot taste the milk.

 

Can you "store" processing speed in the cupboard to use later?
If not it's not comparable at all.
If you INSIST on using cereal analogy for a technology (oddly) then it'd be like you being allergic to the nuts in the cereal and complaining you can't eat them like other people. You can pick them out but the company says "we really don't want to sell nuts to people who are allergic because SOME people are going to eat them, get sick and sue us for poisoning them."
Because that's what already happens when people with lower end consoles and older computers get new high processing content and it doesn't play perfectly.
It's a call by the company whether they want to sell it with the nuts and risk it... or just sell a version without nuts for people with nut allergies and avoid the hassle.
Yes technically the people who get the "nut free" variety are not getting the "same" content with nuts as the other cereal, but not offering that nut-free variety will mean all those nut allergy people will have to (at best) go through the whole box and pick the nuts out, frustrating them and (at worst) getting allergic reactions to the nuts/nut residue still in it (ie game crash/stutter)
DTG in silly cereal terms was given the options of:
NOT selling "Honey, Nuts and Oats" cereal with nuts in it, selling it with nuts and making peopel with allergies pick them out, or offer a "nut free" version in addition to the original.
They chose the third option.
Now they are being attacked by people with nut allergies who are screaming that they should have the "option" to pick the nuts out by hand if they want to.
I'm free market. I say let them do that if it floats their boat.
Just EXPLAINING that DTG didn't do it out of some odd conspiracy theory they want to "punish console players." They did it as a rational choice to make things "easier" as the preferred option.
I'm not defending their choice as the BEST choice... but that it wasn't irrational or mean spirited like the conspiracy theorists are assuming.
It was simply A choice out of several available, NONE of which the console community wants.
But those are the options available since they don't have a magical "memory leak fix" (as it's not one bug like "curing cancer") and they can't change console performance.
That's my whole point... people are making outlandish claims and lashing out at a design team that isn't entirely at fault, demanding unrealistic things.
You can be disappointed without being unreasonable and mean to them personally.

 

Hence my pointing out that it's not a matter of what they're sold, they buy the same product (With a free upgrade if they get the new console) - they just happen to own suboptimal tools to use for consuming it, which limit their experience (The smaller bowls and forks in my version of the analogy, which corrects the original comparison in a way that doesn't invoke anything innate to the consumer like the allergy version does*). The cereal box is the same one no matter who is buying it. But what you try to eat it with will determine how easily it goes down and how much of it you can enjoy.
No doubt the soon to arrive PS6 and Xbox Whatever will once again have a free Gen10 upgrade which brings it up to what PC players have been enjoying for a while now, until the game gets even more bloated.

*Would of course that allergies could be made to go away for a one-time outlay of money, instead of being a lifelong additional expense on finding food which does not include the allergens

 

Well the best part of the free market is the customer gets to decide whether to buy at all in the end. Everything else aside i still say they should at least be providing a discount for such a comparatively poor version of the same product.

As train sims are certainly nothing like a necessity, it'll be interesting to see how this goes from a sales position.

DTG are fortunate to be (mostly) the only game in town, especially on consoles, so they'll probably continue to get away with this stuff.

I don't think there's any conspiracies btw, i just think it's a combination of poor management, complacency at lacking a true competitor, and, to be fair, some external factors like publisher pressure to release too quickly and that hiring quality talent for a niche studio is probably challenging.

I guess the core of my frustrations is that it's unlikely any of these factors will change when the inevitable TSW6 launches in a few months, so where's the hope? I've been playing train sims since MSTS, and TSW was so fresh and exciting for me in the beginning because it had so much potential and opportunity to NOT just be an incremental improvement to TSC, which was itself an incremental improvement to MSTS. And now we're back to annual releases that only make sense for the publisher, that at most add one or two small features, incompletely implemented (suspension overhaul), and at worst are an actual downgrade (looking at you, TSW5)

Ffs, they've completely given up on huge chunks of train-simming (Steam traction? Not in development. US Freight? Not in development. US Passenger? Is it still in development? There has been precisely zero on the roadmap since Boston-Worcester launch months ago, so who knows).

We still don't have announcements (except when 3rd-parties do it, somehow), eBula, PTC, ETCS, on and on and on.

But, no, no..it's the children who are wrong!

 

I can accept what’s happening to consoles, but I would like an explanation and why not a lower price

 

And that's why I suggested they would be "picking out the nuts" and complaining about it since they "can't process" that part.
Saying something like they have a "smaller bowl" suggests they can still use the whole product, which isn't true with the DLC. It will simply usually "crash." A smaller bowl won't explode or break if you pour too much cereal in it, and there is no equivalent for a console to "not pour as much in" except limiting the layers...which is the same thing as "picking the nuts out" so that's already covered.
Making it an "allergy" portrays both the potentially disastrous consequence of a full system crash as well as the possibility that some people can handle better than others depending on the severity (ie what version of console they are on, how many games are on it, etc) as not every "allergy" is the same.
And yes you can work through some allergies (like lactose intolerance) and you can take medication.

Note that I didn't choose the "cereal" analogy. I chose a hybrid car with gasoline and battery components, saying you could use the electrical components when you installed a charger for it. That would in fact be the better analogy as it's tech based and is inherent in system capacity not personal capacity.

But you chose to use cereal instead.

 

What about a lower price, then an "upgrade" price later for the "full timetable" for when people upgrade in the future?
I think the intent (judging by the marketing) that having the whole content there, but "locked away" for full price would avoid this later complaint about "upgrade cost" because it would just "unlock" on your account once you moved to a PS 6 or whatever they call it.
That way they can offer a "free upgrade" (which people love to hear) and not have to say "well now you gotta pay to upgrade to the full version" (which people hate and will forget they paid less initially)

 

Put the same amount in a smaller bowl, and everything over that amount falls out on the floor and you can't eat it*. Much as happens with the consoles' memory and the ingame textures.

*Okay, not strictly true, I don't know how you handle stuff in your household, to each their own when it comes to floor cereals, I guess.

Presumably the same reason they didn't give Gen8 or Series S players a cheaper price than PS5/XSX players, and why the price of the game on Steam is not determined by your Steam Hardware Survey results. Sooner or later you are able to play that copy you bought on a better system with all the features that your current system lacked.

 

Look, it's not a good analogy, but I actually AGREE with you that they should have released it all and let players "filter" it to taste by reducing layers (pouring less cereal.) I'm not saying their idea is the BEST option, but it has REASONS behind it. It's not arbitrary.

People always assume that understanding others motivations means you AGREE with a position.
No, far from it. It just means you understand other people have different motivations and opinions in the world than yours.
It doesn't require you to agree.

They've been running this game long enough to know that a large number of people WILL just keep pouring cereal into the bowl, onto the table over and over and whine about it, blaming the "cereal company" for selling "faulty cereal."

Now I say "let them spill their cereal" and we can mock them for being lazy, but again it's not about me agreeing with the devs, it's understanding the situation and seeing why they would choose differently. It's not attacking them personally for "bad intent" when I see no evidence of that "bad intent." People tend to think they're some evil villains rubbing their hands together and cackling maniacally in an evil lair somewhere trying to make life terrible for poor victimized train sim fans.

 

I was never arguing with you, I just thought you overcomplicated the analogy, when it came to explaining why the argument the person you responded to made, claiming DTG were selling certain people boxes with worse cereal, was wrong.

 

Jfc the cereal analogy was stupid and i'm sorry i ever thought of it. It was supposed to illustrate how console players might be feeling, not a perfect comparison. Please let's just let it go lol.

Ah, but you are assuming that a Gen10 version of the game will be developed, and will fully utilize the capabilities of the new consoles, and will provide a free upgrade path (Switch 2's paid upgrades is hinting at a different strategy this time around).

Whenever they actually arrive (18 months for Holiday 26 seems the shortest possible timeframe).

Gen8 players and low-spec PC players can upgrade RIGHT NOW without paying for the software again.

Gen9 players either have to wait for a possible Gen10 version probably 2 years from now or switch to PC, which is most certainly not a free upgrade path.

I'd wager that's where a lot of the anger from that playerbase is coming from.

 

I think it was a mistake to announce the schedule reduction at the last minute. And even in the last lines of the text. That was a cold shower for fans of this game, including me.

 

As PS5 player if i have the occasion in future to buy a PC i would use it for train simulator classic instead of TSW

 

Watching the Preview Stream:
After Bischofsheim there seems under the left rising track some empty space ...

 

So iv´e seen the Stream on the 13th. May 2025 and i have some errors i have to report.

The ZSig T1 in Rüsselsheim has a highstanding Lichtsperrsignal. In reality it was a lowstanding one.
The Fahrtanzeiger for Rüsselsheim Opelwerke in the Direction for Rüsselsheim is missing.
The E-Sig Rüsselsheim has a ZS3v. In Reality it was an ZS3.
The ET430 runs up until 160 Km/h but in reality it can only run up to 140 Km/h with 5 Km/h tolerance.

I´ll update this post with new infos as we get more information about the Addon.

 

Gen 9 apparently can’t handle it (it can, dtg just haven’t bothered fixing their game), but Gen 8 simply wouldn’t be able to run the route at a high standard so it makes sense to not include it. Saying that, Gen 9 has had so much cut back that it might as well be on Gen 8 as well

 

Another route to not bother with after the abysmal showing

 

BML has over 1000...

 

While a reduced timetable might be better than nothing at standard price it isn't! that's like ordering a round at the bar for 6 drinks, paying for 6 but only getting 4

 

Thanks for info.

At least BR101 + IC Coaches are missing there, that's a big shame. I assume that freight traffic, even as AI, will not occur there, or am I wrong?

 

Would it not be possible to have 1 train do similar services? For example, the ICE T could do the ICE 1/3 services. Any RE services could be done using 1 loco + dosto set. It wouldn't be a perfect solution, but would stop the main stations like Frankfurt being empty.

If that's not doable, static trains at Frankfurt would at least make it feel less empty

 

Posted in the other thread, but relevant here too.

I still just don't understand why such a route was actually chosen now at this specific point? I mean there's multiple reasons I don't get.

Firstly, with the current core, the experience on console is the worst it's even been in my opinion, from constant blurry textures, video memory errors with certain routes (Frankfurt-Fulda and Mittenwaldbahn specifically) and so on. Then, there's already been the console experience with Frankfurt-Fulda already - so why choose to have such another Frankfurt memory-intense route again so soon while the core still struggles? Couldn't they have waited until sometime later in the future when things are hopefully more stable, plus there's already been way too many TSW routes in the Frankfurt area anyway which gets repetitive (LAMP process anyone?).

Finally, it also creates more frustration within the player base. Why choose a route where a majority (who are console players) can't enjoy the full experience, let alone those on Gen 8 not at all. I understand that some PC players may not care about console, but you have to understand that's what makes TSW what it is, otherwise DTG might as well create a new train sim for just PC only, then again you already have TSC.

German routes have always been the pinnacle of TSW with consistently busy timetables and stations and lots of different locos and service types; then compare now with the console-reduced timetable for Frankfurt S-Bahn, just 5 different trains with no freight and an empty main terminus on Gen 9. It seems like the days of when routes were like Rapid Transit and certainly feels a step backward.

I no longer have any interest in routes such as Frankfurt S-Bahn on console when it offers so little compared with PC. It's such a disappointment considering how excited I was for it initially.

 

Just a question. I have everything except Bremen-Oldenburg. What will I be missing?

 

Well I for one was impressed with the stream today.

Very happy there were no blurry textures and the route still felt busy with reduced timetable on Xbox X.

Personally the blurry textures are more immersion breaking than a reduction of traffic.

 

hi all what I think DGT should have done is two separate timetables one for sBan 600 in one and one for ICE and IC service 500 In the and freight service in another at least this way we can enjoy the route better and still have the same service as the pc

 

Okay, this might sound a bit of an odd question, so bear with me, Matt. But, as a compromise for consoles, if Frankfurt Hbf is one of the main problems regarding memory, what if the route were slightly shorter and went just from Wiesbaden to Frankfurt-Niederrad and Frankfurt-Grieshiem instead of Frankfurt Hbf?

Another example, think of Frankurt-Fulda, imagine the route instead being just Fulda to Frankfurt Sud instead. I know probably some other players wouldn't like a Frankfurt route without Frankfurt Hbf, but I wouldn't mind potentially if it meant a full timetable and more stability for the remainder of the route; certainly a better option in my opinion than an empty route and dull experience overall.

Thoughts everyone?

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating shorter routes for console players as the new normal. But only in exceptional circumstances like Gen 9 getting a reduced timetable.

 

I suggested it further up the thread, but would there be any benefit to splitting the timetable between S1 and S8/9, i.e. any train that runs along the S1 route goes on the S1 timetable, the others on the S8/9 timetable. It wouldn't fix the emptiness at each end, but could at least mean we see all the other traffic when heading along the route.

 

If the situation is as desperate as Matt describes, that the 9th gen console can't handle practically anything.....then it's a waste of money.....maybe it will get better someday.....and I agree with the above opinion that in this situation, the production of such a demanding track is a bit incomprehensible

 

a welcome voice of reason in this sea of turbulent emotion, finally

 

I also mentioned it somewhere, why 400 services with BR430 and then almost nothing....... an extended interval, when every other service on the S line will run, could otherwise enrich the traffic and the fleet...... but maybe we just see it too simply

 

The situation is serious, almost desperate on consoles .... and so we are desperately coming up with suggestions.......

 

On console? Everything that's not included with the route. There are no layers.

 

PC player doesn't understand why people aren't happy at paying the same for less.

Would you be happy if I made a pack of 10 cookies for £10 but because you're smaller than the bigger person, I only sell you a pack of 6 but still charge you £10...?

 

Honestly I'd be wary of workarounds like this, because they can cause an actual solution to be de-prioritised. If there are aspects of the route to be removed - in addition to optimisation - then I'd suggest other areas.

 

Yeah, of course, totally agree - but just thinking of different solutions for us on console for a better overall experience.

 

Absolutely, but I'd rather wait. We can - we have plenty of routes to play.

 

*sigh* I understand they are unhappy, what I dont understand is even after Matt has made an official statement, and not once, and went out of his way to explain what he can (even before that, some ppl offered pretty good comments, but the yappin went on so Matt ultimately stepped in), ppl still go on like a broken record... you all made your point like I dont even know how many pages ago and like 20x times already, yet you still go on and on and on

 

So basically, you're unhappy that people are voicing their unhappiness at your favourite company.

There's a difference between understanding that people are unhappy and WHY people are unhappy.

And you didn't answer my question? Would you be happy paying the same for less?

 

I am annoyed that even after the concerns have been addressed, ppl keep on yappin...

well... I certainly wouldnt be happy, but after voicing my concern and getting whatever it is addressed I would wait how situation pans out, probably wait for later purchase... also, my gaming passion has started waaaaaay back, gotten my first PC when I was 13, which was like aaaaaaaaages ago... I am used to having to compromise... it wasnt until 2017 that I got a hellfire of a machine (at the time), and it took me 3 yrs of sacrificing a lot of things to be able to pay it off... and well, recently it has gotten to the point when my PC is no longer close to even min specs for newest DOOM lol

and my TSW is almost on fire on routes like FTF or Ludwigsbahn, so the Frankfurt S-Bahn will probably get a lot of frame drops... but then, not a new situation... I remember having to tweak setting on freakin Skyrim waaaaaaaaaaay back to be able to run it on what was essentially a laptop for studying lol

so... I know you are upset, they know you are upset... Matt issued multiple comments addressing pretty much all those concerns... lets wait how it pans out... apparently it is sth pretty serious, so it wont get solved overnight

not the same, but I am at a crossroads atm - upgrading storage to SSDs to boost the performance at least a bit, maybe get a cheaper RTX, or get a new machine for monthly payments... or somehow keep my PC alive till new gen of consoles arrive (for me, no point in getting a gen of consoles that will get succeeded in a year or two)

 

I enjoyed the preview stream. The route looked solid, and the banter was great! The new train doesn’t really feel new because it follows the common DB S-Bahn formula, but that was to be expected. Light baking seemed a bit dark, wonder why that’s such an issue nowadays considering how great the Leipzig city tunnel from Rapid Transit still looks.

Regarding the console timetable, Matt’s words really do give me the impression that everything possible was attempted, but there’s just no way the big timetable was even going to load without crashing. That being said, the reduced timetable seems overly restricted. There is so much less variety than on the Frankfurt-Fulda route, and apparently even the AI-only runs of the rolling stock that is included with the reduced timetable have been omitted. Hopefully some of the upcoming memory savings will enable them to re-enable some of the more important layers for console players (e.g. Maintalbahn, saw those trains everywhere in the preview stream; or some static stock).

 

So you're going to lower the price for the route on consoles then right?