Frankfurt S-bahn Discussion

I plan to, yes

 

What about weaker PCs? They might only want the reduced version. Is it fair for them to pay full price

 

My PC could be termed as weak but thus far I’m running the full/enhanced timetable and nothing has melted or caught fire. Yes I have reduced TSW5 resolution to 1440p or using the Lossless Scaling app to boost the display back to pseudo 4K from 1080p. But now the shaders seem to have largely finished compiling with the measures I’ve taken getting FPS in the high 20’s, with the odd stutter that we all get with this poorly optimised game engine. The point being I guess that PC users, even those of us with potatoes, have more tools and options at our disposal to tinker with performance than consoles.

 

aka whatever Matt says, following this path of reasoning, you can just ignore it and keep the upset loop going... y know, whatever they do at this point, even if it ends up helping the game in the long run, it is going to take time, it aint going to happen on a whim of a magic wand

we all get it like 10x by now... how about moving on and actually waiting how the situation turns out?

 

The Dosto Steuerwagen for both Frankfurt routes is broken, because he has the Bremsschlüssel activated when the loco is driving, that’s why you can’t Break without the Notbremse on the 114 and 143

 

How about leaving the conversation if you don’t like it? If the route is running well for you go and play it.

 

Then I don't know. Some people have potato PCs, and it doesn't look like it's your case. I don't run 4K because I don't see any difference between that and 1440p, and I have no idea why anyone would but it's not my choice anyways

 

The most noticeable jump is from 1080p to 1440p. 4K starts to make sense with monitors 27'' or bigger, but even then the improvement is not as noticeable as the change from 1080p to 1440p.

Anything above 4k is mostly for bragging rights.

 

As I just remarked in another thread, in terms of outright stutters and pauses I would have to say WCML Over Shap is worse than FSB (is that what we’re calling it?). I’m fairly comfortable I think running FSB at 1440p without any scaling, but WCMLOS think I will be happier putting in a 1080p window and using Lossless Scaliing at 2x. Just a nuisance having to keep swapping the resolution depending what route I’m playing.

 

well, cos this thread is supposed to be about the route, so keeping an eye on possible bugs, solutions etc., but instead all threads related to the route have been flooded by the console issue over and over again (despite Matt giving pretty information-rich comments to the degree he can), so any information relevant to me or others seeking actual info gets so lost in here I have to go comment by comment to actually see anything relevant... so yeah, not as simple as just leaving

you and a couple others have literally hijacked like three threads already (... discussion, ...out now and console...), DTG knows your point even if they didnt want to, they can probably hear it from their refridgerators by now...

 

You’ll find that info in the player feedback thread which I’ve hardly been in.

 

Exactly. It’s the Feedback thread where topic drift isn’t encouraged. “GD” is for discussion of all the issues. Sadly some people on here like to think they can control the narrative to serve only their viewpoint or blindly defend DTG.

 

Sensible route choice is perhaps about choosing to have not one, but two routes in TSW 5 so soon after another that feature the likes of the mammoth Frankfurt Hbf. It's already been a well-known fact that consoles struggled with Frankfurt-Fulda; so, couldn't they have pushed back the game's most-ever ambitious route when optimisation and the core was in a much, much better position - just compare how good TSW 4 was for example; regardless of optimisation, there's been too much Frankfurt region content for German DLC recently... Anyway, there's so many other route choices that could've been chosen that still potentially provide a busy, interesting (full) timetable and network style of route for both PC and Gen 9. On a side note, I'd be interested to know if it's just having Frankfurt Hbf that's the main issue - it seems even some with the reduced timetable are still having issues.

Meanwhile, I don't understand how you can make such a statement for all console players - as a console player myself I want to see more variety (be it more German diesel, larger networks, exciting gameplay and so on). I don't want short, unexciting routes as much as yourself; Goblin and Mildmay have never excited me, but I bet many PC players enjoy them though, so your logic doesn't make much sense if I'm honest.

The reaction from Gen 9 players has been justified though. After all, TSW is a game designed for both PC and console and you have to remember this game wouldn't even exist without console in the first place! You stated that "Simpler routes that fit into consoles and don't stress older PC hardware" then may I ask why has there's never been a separate PC version of TSW with its own set of unique, standalone routes?? Surely you'd never have to worry about consoles ever again...

 

thats an actually helpful suggestion, so my bad ... anyway, I would in no way presume to dictate anything, least of all defend DTG... in between various mental states (yummy stuff y know) I just try to enjoy myself as much as I can, even if the game can be infuriating at times (like the e-brake issues/weirdness on 112, possibly on 143, havent tried the latest version yet, but 114 is also behaving weird at times, which sucks cos I enjoyed the challenge of driving those)

if my last comment or two sounded too heated, I'm sorry, lack of sleep probably contributed ... y know, installed Elden Ring a week ago and it has already contributed to some nights with too little sleep and too much of energy drinks

 

No worries razmatus#2517 not tried Elden Ring myself but keep getting distracted by Snowrunner!

 

The operative word in my post was 'can', which to me implies having one or both.

 

it's like Dark Souls on steroids in an insanely humongous open world... where you keep dying ... but then you get a nice pancake-ing weapon and there go hours of sleep like in this meme

TSW has also been steadily contributing to this over the years lol

 

Why is the Part over Louisa missing?

 

In regards to sensible route choice, I agree, however, it’s a learning curve also for the developer. Hence, now stating DTG should have not made this choice is not a valid argument, in my eyes! It’s not like you decide what route to build next, off you go and two months later you are finished.

This route must have been decided already around TSW5 launch (Lukas talked about a new route around Frankfurt at the Gamescom). Resources were planned months in advance, agreements (although probably only mutual) were made with TSG to use this route as Br420 platform, research probably took place, in short: money was invested. In addition, I am sure the plan (hope?) was there to optimise after the FTF experience to such an extend that it would still work, also for consoles. This obviously has not worked out…

I am not a software developer but I am sure it’s not an easy business. But I am sure once you are committed it’s difficult to turn around.

Matt has said in the latest stream that he is not planning to visit Frankfurt again any time soon, because of the issues and backlash they are seeing now. This is exactly what you are requesting with „sensible route selection“. Don’t think that’s something they are taking light hearted…

 

I don't quite get what's going on with performance tbh.

Frankfurt S-bahn runs significantly better for me than Frankfurt-Fulda, Mildmay, or WCMLOS. I have all layers on

The first run was admittedly a little ropey for me with shader caching going on, but since then it's run pretty well over a dozen or so runs. No CTD (i've gotten several on F-F since launch fwiw) or texture issues. I even ran back to back ICE-T services from Wiesbaden to Fulda over both routes, and F-F performed significantly worse.

I run a decidedly mid laptop (AMD Ryzen 5600H 16GB total RAM with RTX3050Ti) and only in 1080p, but i really was expecting a total slideshow and have been pleasantly surprised.

But, why does it cause insta-crash on consoles as Matt has reported? It just seems strange. I really hope they can figure out a solution because console players deserve to be able to play what is a pretty good route in its full glory, especially since they're paying the full price (i know we've already been over this ad nauseum).

 

Overall your point is good, but that last paragraph makes my blood boil a little bit.

I don't watch the streams so don't want to take Matt out of context, but that sounds awfully reminiscent of his reaction to complaints about US Freight content, especially regarding sounds, which ultimately led to them just not making any more US freight at all, and that's totally the wrong lesson to be learned!!!

I'm glad they made the Frankfurt routes, flaws and all. Keep working, keep improving, keep adding to it when they can. Not to retreat and only do easy stuff. That's really sad imo.

I hold my hand up and admit i play a part in the toxic negativity sometimes. I'm really trying to do better with it (and not just on here lol).

I just love train simming and want TSW to be the best it can be for all players (PC and console).

 

yeah, so my hopes of Vienna route are in wishful thinking territory right now and for some foreseeable future :/

 

So what I hear right in some parts of the forum is we shouldn’t have negative feedback as it effects the choices of the route.

The alternative being stuff is released unfinished or broken, but hey at least they are interesting routes!

Im not sure how much of a customer base you’d end up with on that approach…

 

it is not about that they dont want negative feedback... but the kind of negative feedback that happened recently was sometimes borderline toxic, going beyond just emotional/passionate response/backlash... yes, they have probably bit a bit more than they could chew (at the moment at least), but the backlash was (and kinda still is) way out of proportion... so I am not surprised that after this route they will probably go for safer options at least for a time (till they identify and pin down the engine issues etc)... like, I am pretty positive they spent a lot of time and effort making this route, and then reading how incompetent they are, I mean, I wouldnt be surprised if some of the developers were like f... it I want to do sth simpler next time

 

addry#6825

No, it's more about the fact that probably every single person on this forums read your opinions at least 9 times in 7 different threads. It's not about not voicing *constructive* criticism.
It's about the fact that you basically took over every thread related to FSN or consoles and make it only about your own point. By now absolutely everyone (including DTG) understands your frustration. And i totally agree that the situation with gen 9 consoles is not looking good. And DTG acknowledged it a couple of times.
But it's like beating a dead horse again and again and again. And it's getting kinda annoying.

People want to discuss other things as well, and not just the topic of the reduced timetable on consoles.

 

Exactly what I reported. Think now the shaders have settled down, FSB (or is it FSN?) will run satisfactorily at 1440p. WCMLoS however, I'm resigned to putting TSW in a 1080p window then hitting up Lossless Scaling.

Mind the core game must be in a bit of a state to deliver such inconsistency across its range of content.

On TSC the only route that really chugs for me is that Tokyo urban one from Union Workshop.

 

It's all about balance IMO.

My personal view is that the community could be a bit less reflexively sure DTG are being "lazy" or are "incompetent" and more adaptable to the setbacks that are inevitable in game development (again, i take some responsibility here). We could be more accepting of SOME compromises for the greater good (thinking again of US freight sounds).

But otoh, DTG could maybe grow a little thicker skin on some things like valid criticism on things like platform parity and pricing even when some of the factors involved are out of their control.

They could be a bit more transparent/straightforward in communicating bad news to the community. I think one of the biggest issues people had with Frankfurt S-bahn was the reduced timetable for Gen9 only being disclosed a couple weeks before launch.

Finally they could be less quick to throw in the towel on challenging content- Steam, BR Blue, Vintage US routes, and US Freight were all abandoned by DTG due to poor reception, poor sales, or a combination of both. Not to mention one and dones in both Canada and France. I understand you can't keep throwing good money after bad, and maybe licensing plays a role, but i feel like some of these categories never really got a chance- Clinchfield was let down by its awful lighting and some pathing issues, but man i'd absolutely be down for another route for F and E series to really shine!

 

Just did a service using a DB 143 and it was interesting with a Rail Driver. The independent brake works backwards with full application at the release end and release at the full application end. It is fun to drive once you get used to the throttle being a speed control instead of a throttle.

 

I think it's the purpose of a customer forum, to anable criticism. Because withouth criticism there is no progress.

Otherwise we had such routes with empty stations like Rapid Transit and Birmingham Cross City always.

 

Hello everyone, I have a small question to ask. I play on PC and I noticed that at Frankfurt HBF there are no panels on the platforms indicating which trains are leaving or arriving. On the Frankfurt HBD of the F.Fulda line there are. This is strange.

 

Think the bigger worry evolving as we play the route more is not so much performance but the frequency of signalling lock ups, even without loading a save game. Nothing is going to push a DLC to the bottom of the play list or make me wish I hadn’t spent £30, than not knowing if the run you start can be finished. Not even deleting trains necessarily helps - as the second time I did that last night TSW crashed to desktop.

Sadly over two hours of play with the route too late to get a refund, so stuck with it now. I hope the radio silence from DTG over the issues flagged so far in the Feedback thread don’t mean this is another BML, where they are afraid to go back in and touch anything.

 

Only had time to spend a total of about two hours with the route so far, luckily without a lockup. However, every time I hit a red light (as much as I love it) I do feel the uncertainty creeping up in me, wanting to open the map window to see if it is a lockup or not. Certainly this was conditioned into me by playing a lot of TSW over the years…

I know it’s the feedback thread (edit: just realised it’s actually the discussion thread) to FSN, however, as this route seems to be prone to lockups I think it is allowed to make DTG aware of what AI can do, these days. I am sure the devs are aware of this but I really think it’s about time the signaller gets introduced to ChatGPT, Claude (those just as examples) and their like, to get a bit more intelligence build into him.

 

does the e-brake on 143 work properly when using train brake lets say?

 

Because consoles don’t have the PC safety valve of writing data to disc (“virtual memory”) when RAM is tapped out. On a PC it registers as a slowdown, whereas a console simply gives up

 

If you have an SSD drive, I recommend turning off virtual memory. Just for information.

 

You mean because it’s not healthy for an SSD or why do you recommend this?

 

Constantly writing to an SSD wears it out. When bad sectors start appearing. One SSD died in my mem laptop, due to a bad setting in Win.

 

That’s interesting to read. I know you’re not supposed to defrag SSD’s but useful information particularly when I replace my PC later this year and the C drive at least will be a SSD.

 

It is not the memory cells that wear out, it is the controller chip. Memory cells do have a limited lifespan, i.e. cycles, but the controller switches these out. You can also set 'overprovisioning' on better brand SSD's, reserving more cells at the cost of reduced overall storage capacity.

Once the controller dies, it is game over for the SSD, no matter the still available good memory cells.
A good flow of cool air over the SSD helps to improve its lifespan.

As with all storage devices, regular backup of valuable, personal, sensitive data is paramount. Registered OS and Steam games can be reinstalled, but your route projects, rolling stock 3D models, graduation thesis you have invested years in, personal family photos etc are more valuable.

 

I wouldn't worry too much Vern. You're much more likely to replace an SSD for a bigger one than for it to wear out.

The MTBF for modern SSD's is at least 5 years and probably closer to 10. I have one that I've been using for almost 11 years between 3 different PC's.

 

SSDs have very fast reading. I put an MVMe SSD drive in my PS5 that has a read speed of 7000MB/s. The problem is writing. The NAND chip wears out with writing. With normal use and sufficient cooling, an SSD drive can last for many years. I've had my SSD drive in my console for three years now and it works great. Be sure to use the SSD drive to boot the operating system. I wanted to warn you to be careful with virtual memory and defragmentation. Defragmentation is not needed when reading data this fast. Another thing. The RoadCraft game works on my PS5 in quality mode without any problems. After ten hours, I found no problems with graphics or performance.

 

When your wallet and computer support it, it's probably better not to put all your eggs in one basket.
Most motherboards support at least two M2 SSD's, others up to 4. Laptops are a different matter, often come pre-configure and most aren't easily serviceable by their owner anyway to replace parts.

OS on a 500 GB, Games on one or more 1 TB capacity SSD's. Anything over 3000 Kb/s is fast enough for the OS. Games storage probably do not even need such a fast SSD, and putting stationary files like downloads on a SSD is a waste. Those are best stored on external plug in HDD.

 

I lost my photos this way. Since then I've been using a NAS server with two drives.

 

Just out of interest, I have not found any trains taking the Mainz avoiding line, which was actually especially promoted prior to launch. Maybe one of you was more successful and found one?!

 

Look at Vectron freight services - DGS (46679) and DGS (40670).

 

Console players will never use that line then.

 

Which is a shame, but at the same time it shouldn't surprise anyone as that was communicated very clearly before release

 

Could they not have given consoles players all of the layers but given us a lot less jobs. That way we still get experience all of layering.

 

Loving S9 services in the Frankfurt direction - so much PZB action!

 

Then your application will start crashing the moment you run out physical ram, which on PC, where quite a few memory hungry apps regularly run at the same time, can happen fairly often.

Windows will not write to the pagefile until it is necessary. By your logic I shouldn't have any savegame data, logged data, browser cache, or anything that requires regular write operation on my SSD, because I'm decreasing the lifetime of NAND flash cells... which I'm, but with normal use it would take me 10+years for this to become an issue.

Exhaustion of NAND flash cells is progressive, can be monitored, and gives you ample of time to replace your disk...
So if your disk failed fully at once, it wasn't this issue, and could have happened with any kind of disk... Always backup your data, as the question isn't if your drive will fail, but when...


And I humbly ask everyone... do not change your default windows setting just because of a random post on some forum.