Frankfurt S-bahn Discussion

I’m sure someone will be along in the morning to tell us how ungrateful we are and devs need feeding.

 

A stop gap could have been just to have static trains permanently in the station that can't be operated. Not perfect, but at least it would have let us think it's busy

 

Agreed, don't buy this one until it's fixed. But if they pull this again before fixing this, then a boycott is warranted.

Focus and DTG need to be shown that their greed has consequences

 

They need to bloody fix their game is what they need to do. I had a melted block of flats at fulda today at one of the stations. Looked like wax.

 

I think the ECML map also has two layouts on the console, one is called reduced ...... why didn't they do it here too so that everyone can choose, and DTG will say, it is recommended to be reduced and full, with layers that can be turned off, it is only for "demanding beta testers )) users" .... it would certainly be happier

 

Obviously something really went wrong there, it's kind of in disrepair, they've been trying to resuscitate it for nine months and it's not going very well...... it's an unpleasant situation

 

I still just don't understand why such a route was actually chosen now at this specific point? I mean there's multiple reasons I don't get.

Firstly, with the current core, the experience on console is the worst it's even been in my opinion, from constant blurry textures, video memory errors with certain routes (Frankfurt-Fulda and Mittenwaldbahn specifically) and so on. Then, there's already been the console experience with Frankfurt-Fulda already - so why choose to have such another Frankfurt memory-intense route again so soon while the core still struggles? Couldn't they have waited until sometime later in the future when things are hopefully more stable, plus there's already been way too many TSW routes in the Frankfurt area anyway which gets repetitive (LAMP process anyone?).

Finally, it also creates more frustration within the player base. Why choose a route where a majority (who are console players) can't enjoy the full experience, let alone those on Gen 8 not at all. I understand that some PC players may not care about console, but you have to understand that's what makes TSW what it is, otherwise DTG might as well create a new train sim for just PC only, then again you already have TSC.

German routes have always been the pinnacle of TSW with consistently busy timetables and stations and lots of different locos and service types; then compare now with the console-reduced timetable for Frankfurt S-Bahn, just 5 different trains with no freight and an empty main terminus on Gen 9. It seems like the days of when routes were like Rapid Transit and certainly feels a step backward.

I no longer have any interest in routes such as Frankfurt S-Bahn on console when it offers so little compared with PC. It's such a disappointment considering how excited I was for it initially.

 

The game is regressing. London Commuter still looks the biz and it’s years old.

I think it’s just a poorly optimised game with too much bloat and not enough time spent on it with resources directed at dlc to keep money rolling in.

 

TBH I would be nervous about getting this for PC. Frankfurt was a slide show yesterday evening on the Kinzig route so I fear this will be the same, unless you have a NASA super computer.

Out of interest, was anything said on the stream as to how this route met the LAMPOIL requirements, in particular what sets it above all the existing DB commuter routes? Or was it glossed over.

So I really can’t see me paying £30 for what might turn out to be a jerk and sound squelch fest and playability wise the same start/stop bus service that we can experience on RRO, HRR, Dresden to Riesa etc. And with the Class 86 DLC coming in at £20, no doubt the E94 more than that (wouldn’t be surprised at £30) then the buying cutbacks have to start somewhere and this ill conceived route seems the place to begin.

 

DTG must have assumed that this DLC is unsellable for consoles. The texture bug has been known for 7 months. Such an approach will definitely affect the sales of TSW6. I'm a big fan of this game, but I'm starting to think that I won't buy the next version of TSW. TSW5 is a waste of money for me.

 

Thinking more about the arguement „reduced timetable / full price“ from the perspective of a former Gen 8 console player. - I used to always have reduced timetables and shorter trains when I played on PS4. But when I upgraded to the PS5, I got to download the content free on the new console and was able to enjoy all benefits of the layers and timetables. - That is the difference now with this route, if I was to buy a gaming PC, I would have to reinvest in the game and the DLC again to get the full experience. That makes it hard for me to justify paying €36.

 

This frustrates me. I think there is so much potential in this route, but as a PS5 user on the whole, the stripping of the timetable leaves me thinking what’s the point in buying the route? I cannot believe DTG didn’t think before commissioning the route about demands on hardware and the like. IF their majority customer base is console based then they’ve very much missed the mark with this one. Compromise is not good enough. If consoles are going to struggle with the “full fat” option on this route, then shelve it and produce other content that Gen9 and PC are on a level playing field with.

 

I can think of countless times that Matt has streamed from an Xbox rather than a PC.

 

Not interested anymore in this route but I praise the transparency.
All I can say after watching the stream is that optimization should be key as this split in content between PC and consoles does not sit well with me. I understand the reasoning behind it but with no PS6 or Xbox Series Y (or whatever they are gonna call it) on the horizon the future of TSW on consoles looks bleak.

 

I’ve said it in another thread but this franchise has at best two years left to run if this degradation in quality continues.

It simply won’t be worth the investment with reduced timetables, shorter routes and compromises across the board just to get it running as expected.

 

Just wondering... How is TSW 5 a waste of money for you, if the core game was for free for months?

 

I bought the deluxe edition. It wasn't free.

 

well then. content you pay for to own, that concept hasn't changed for centuries. you decided to buy it, if that was a waste of money you could've easily refunded it.

 

I haven't done that mistake since TSW3, I hope you don't make that mistake again.

 

It's very difficult to return something on PSN. I played TSW5 before all layers were enabled. Then the blurry texture bug appeared. This blurry texture bug also appeared in TSW4, where it was fixed with a patch. I assumed that the blurry texture bug would be fixed quickly in TSW5 as well. The blurry texture bug has not been fixed so I can't play all the content I purchased in the game.

 

This is so true. DTG are playing with fire and many (including me) will sooner or later be gone from this game

 

The question is whether a Gen 10 will save it, I still can't shake the feeling that it won't just be hardware.

 

I‘m worried by the time Gen 10 comes, the memory need may only still just be enough and we will be back at square one rather quickly.

 

We shouldn't be waiting for Gen10 (which is not anywhere near anyway), we should be getting the fixes now, or else answers as to why it can't be fixed. The blurry textures and stuttering on consoles makes some routes virtually unplayable on console. There's just no pleasure in at all. The hope for me is that the franchise can be saved by the third parties, at the moment it seems that DTG are not able to do this.

 

Exactly, advice like TSW5 is free is very alibiistic, most of the products for TSW5 are practically bugged..... I have the same feelings as you

 

The question is whether third parties will save it, when there will probably be something bad in the core of the game

 

TSW5 may have been "free" for a while, but as just touched on in the JT Class 86 thread it has one of the most expensive DLC policies of any game. Up to £33 now for a route DLC. It has original content getting on for 7 years old that has never been discounted permanently from the original selling price.

For that sort of premium pricing, the core needs to be flawless.

 

Hopefully Simrail will one day come to consoles so we can play that, and Roadcraft it coming next Tuesday so use your money and support that game instead

 

Maybe it will be more useful and effective when I return fully to model railways....... my latest work, weathering a model from Roco, ČSD T466.2

 

Beautiful!

 

Like it is right now I don't think Gen 10 would matter as I was also not very impressed by the full timetable. Having every platform filled with trains in Frankfurt was impressive but the performance during driving was still not on par with my expectations of TSW in 2025. It should be smooth and you don't get that even with the reduced timetable on consoles. Everything I dislike about the performance in TSW was very noticeable in the preview on Xbox and the platforms were even empty.

 

I wouldn't be too sure about Roadcraft. The demo wouldn't run beyond a sideshow on my PC. Turns out it needs a minimum 6Gb graphics card. So I'm not sure how they will have condensed that requirement to accommodate consoles. A shame as a long time Snowrunner fan I'd been looking forward to a game where we could actually repair or upgrade damaged or dirt roads.

 

Gen 9 consoles have 16gb of ram to be split as necessary, they will be fine for roadcraft especially since the engine is relatively light.

6gb reqs for discrete gpus have been coming for a while now, Moores law is dead but ram increases are still a good way for vendors to sell new gpus.

 

I saw in the preview stream they modeled a DHL Packstation!!

 

Charging full price to console players with 60% of the content missing is low even by DTG’s standards.

Just on principle alone I will never buy this route.

 

Apologies for the delay

We are ungrateful and devs need feeding

How did I do?

 

If we're turning this into a thread of whether we're buying it or not, I suppose I'd best add my comment.

I'm buying it on the 20th. Frankfurt looks a bit of an FPS hit on the PC version but I'll live with it.

My only continuing bug-bear is that I do keep wondering if any of my top 5 UK routes will ever make it into the game. Every route announcement apart from BML has been a bit of disappointment, there's areas of the UK and Germany that are begging to be in TSW. No pressure DTG.

 

How many preview streams in the last few years have been on console? No coincidence than the game started declining around the same time regular console previews stopped happening

 

was that sarcasm?

 

How is it free? That's a massive misconception. It comes at cost - because the user is effectively locked out of future content, and also as I remember you didn't actually reap any benefits unless you bought the newer routes.

So not only did it put you on a strict time limit to force you to download, if you didn't you were locked out of updates and improvements and had to also reinstall your entire library.

Its not a good user experience at all.

 

Do you actually build and test on xbox Matt?

I remember all the issues we had with MSFS 2020 and all the marketplace xbox content, continually crashing the sim. It was later revealed that none of the devs of the marketplace where given access to a console to test it on, it was only ever tested on PC.

So they were selling unoptimised add-ons for xbox in the marketplace with a strict no return policy on it for about three years. Caused massive issues.

 

Wow, is this narrative still a thing?

 

While some of this might be true, it doesn't change the fact that TSW5 still was for free.

 

you haven’t answered the question

 

Ive just explained how it wasn’t free. It was just hollow shell. Basically a key. It had nothing of inherent value. It was useless unless you spent money.

 

So Matt mentions in a stream that they've now got a team of 6 working on optimization issues and yet nobody mentioned that when talking about how badly optimized they feel TSW is.

 

Well I think a lot of people believe, rightly or not, that " optimization " has only become a thing with DTG after a reduction in the console version of this route, that, in a sense, it takes a fatal car crash to get traffic lights installed.

 

Yes technically TSW5 actually made the older routes run worse, with the additional overhead caused by the 2D map and all the other baggage it brought. But essentially if you wanted the new content there was little choice but to go along with the scheme. bearing in mind as well TSW4 was dropped like a stone and received no more updates.

 

As the usual pessimistic critic I have to agree with openminded that I'm after a long time excited for what I saw. It felt like a lot of love went into this route and there weren't many major bugs to be seen, which is a very welcomed change. No obvious signalling bugs, I spotted few small ones that do not affect the gameplay (GPA trap let Matt pass at way higher speed than it should, kennlicht not lit when leaving Hbf in ICE) and few annoying-but-patchable ones (looked like the 500 Hz at Hbf (tief) has incorrectly 1000 Hz assigned instead, and barriers were closing only while the train was passing them on xbox).

I'm very happy about the general feeling of the route, it feels fresh and different, important stations are very detailed including even the "I would like if they added this little detail" checkbox for me. Weak spots are the vibe at Flughafen Regionalbahnhof which does not feel like cramped little space extremely overcrowded with people like in reality, and Hbf (tief) feels very dark and desaturated from the cab, but it seemed to get better when Matt was freely walking around.

I don't understand the harsh criticism of empty long distance tracks of Hbf, I'm not sure if you understand that this is not part of the core route and you will not see it unless you stand up and walk to there by yourself, aside of handful of services that are not the intended main focus. The yards yes, but the upper station tracks are not really visible for more than few seconds from the S-Bahn tracks. I wouldn't really mind if it was reduced on PC as well to get better performance, I would much rather see the lively version on FTF instead where you actually use those tracks actively.