I have a suspicion most of the beta testing is being done by people with little or no real railway knowledge, if not outsourced to locations like India or Singapore who have even less idea about the UK rail system and equipment.
I’m about to have one pass my house in 10-20 minutes from now, colas one doing the Carlisle - Chirk log run. I’m able to hear it from half a mile away!
I have a feeeling the beta testers are YOU guys posting here. And thanks for that, as you're helping to protect my wallet. (No, that's no sarcasm, I mean it: Thank you!) It's awfully difficult to refund on PS5, if not impossible.
I just got mine refunded on Steam. Really surprised there hasn't been a peep out of AABS on here and it was left to Jan to weather the flak. Or maybe they know quite nicely what the issues are with the thing and keeping a low profile - you would have thought if issues like the crawling starts and over effusive brakes were as per prototype, someone would have popped up on here by now to say so. So yes, IMHO, another poorly tested, rushed release which does not bode well for the Shrewsbury line or their take on the 158. As I said, more than happy to rebuy if/when the various issues are properly addressed.
I really want to believe that the beta testers aren’t from India or similar regions. It’s not even a question of every beta tester having to know about railways, because there are so many errors that you can spot even without any railway knowledge. I’d like DTG to comment on the subject of beta testers – what sort of people does DTG use as beta testers? And whether these beta testers actually do report all the bugs – which I’d still like to believe they do – or whether it’s DTG saying, ‘We’ve fixed these bugs, and perhaps the others can be sorted out after the DLC goes on sale.’ And to be perfectly honest, I think it’s exactly as I’ve described above regarding DTG. Because DTG knows full well that there are still enough users who will buy the DLCs, and DTG also knows that getting a refund on consoles is very difficult.
Whilst I don’t feel it’s necessary to be as negative as some are being on here, I did spend a long time trying to work out why the AWS was not working (no sound PS5). Sadly I think this just points towards DTG doing little to no testing on console again.
The whole thing looks like a Dog's Dinner, with so many glaring visual errors with wrong angles / shapes, and heights.
It interesting how none of these ‘visual errors’ were brought up prior to release. Seems like there are some individuals just desperate to tell everyone “they are getting a refund”. It’s £15, get over it.
How so? They make the same money if I wait and buy 5 days days after it's released once I can read feedback. It cetainly does less harm than people who buy and refund frequently.
If literally no one bought it for 5 days, the product would cease to exist. At least provide some constructive feedback instead of suggesting everyone should hold off ever buying something on the first day it’s released.
I think it’s fair to provide valuable feedback, that’s what this whole thread is about. I just don’t think it’s necessary to tell everyone you’re getting a refund
So if they don't sell on day 1 they will lose money. Why? do they stop counting sales after day 1? I'm pretty sure they would budget products more by quarterly sales and not just day 1 sales. Maybe put out a better product consistantly instead of these untested releases.
I suppose to be fair the warning signs were there on the streams - the excessive braking and the ponderous pullaway but you think, maybe that it won't be that bad once you get your hands on it. Like I say, they seduced us with the sounds and publicity blurb. And sorry, but £15 isn't cheap for this type of stuff and, frankly, I'm coming round to the point of view if the 3P's and DTG are so incompetent as to allow this sort of stuff out the door at these prices (and don't forget hot on the heels of the less than stellar Tadami) maybe it's time for DTG to call it a day. After all, most of us already have enough content to last more than a lifetime and for me the Class 70 has been the final lesson. That's not negativity, just how I feel about this now shambles of a game.
I agree that DTG’s quality control is absolutely appalling. I guess everyone has a different perspective when it comes to what represents value for money. Having played Train Sim Classic 20 years ago, what we have now with TSW is incredible really. That doesn’t give DTG a free pass, but I can deal with the minor issues as long as the product hits a good standard.
Most aren't saying that though. But. It does send a message to the devs that they're not just unhappy, but unwilling to fund the poor quality. It is helpful to the devs (and especially the publisher) to know why they've just lost £15 - £33
Huh its almost like pre-release they could choose the angles they showed and now we have access we can properly scrutinize it, funny that.
Physics seems to be becoming another weak point for DTG. There are trains with too much rolling resistance (both Dutch trains which carried into the 331 on Leeds route), trains with awfully strong brakes (331 on Leeds route, Koploper on Dutch route, now Class 70), and then there are trains that have a really "off" feeling when driving, such as the BR412. It's really worrying that these are all mostly new releases too. Have DTG lost some staff, or brought on people who don't really have a good feel for these sort of things? Please sort this out DTG.
It does make you wonder how efficient Simugraph is at doing the job, compared to hand written scripts as in TSC, particularly from anyone not deeply au fait with how the system works. Though in fairness, excessive train braking has been a thing going back to NTP with the 45 and 47, where fine control could only be achieved using the straight loco brake. And who can forget the 380, superb model and sounds but the slightest touch of brake still puts you through the windscreen, even after they so called patched it. So I think you may be right… a lack of people with both the knowledge of train physics and how to reflect it accurately in Simugraph. I really wanted to like and embrace the 70 and apologies if I come over as negative but it is just sheer frustration and disappointment that once again we are let down. And still no-one from AABS has the courtesy to come on here and confirm or deny which of the concerns are valid.
I'm not sure it's inherently Simugraph, as there are a few trains that have a really good "feel". The 375 on Medway Valley for example, the 390 seems pretty good, there are a good number of German trains that also "feel" like they're a good way to a realistic representation. I feel DTG have next to no current drivers on their testing team, and a good portion of the testing team signed up just to get early access (I saw the same while being an alpha+beta tester with Flight Sim Labs on their A320).
Agreed. I've been having a play around with the 66's recently and have been a bit disappointed with the braking 'feel', however weirdly enough there are some instances where the 66 and it's wagons feels good, for example, aggregates in Medway Valley - very smooth, appropriate braking, no grabbing and reasonable release times. Now whether this is due to Firefly or Skyhook tweaking the physics I don't know. Anyway, I often find myself going back to Run8 for the ultimate driving feel. It also crosses my mind that some of these teams may actually start creating their own sim, from scratch. I'm a bit surprised this hasn't happened yet. Look at Running Train for example, took a while to release, but it was only 1 person apparently. I would love to see a team make a Run8 type sim based on UK freight, with Run8 style physics - not majorly fussed about graphics, as long as the physics and signalling etc was spot on.
Just installed the Colas Reskins (tried a couple), but doesn't show up (yes I do have liveries enabled, it works for other locos) in the timetable, i'm on PC, anyone else able to get this to work?
Vern, the beta testers are people from this forum who joined the beta program. As far as I'm aware they haven't sought testers from anywhere else, although I agree that you do get the impression that it's tested by people who don't know how trains work or what's expected of DLC. I say "impression" as it could well be that the testers are providing feedback to DTG and that DTG are then choosing to ignore it and thinking "nah, that'll do". It could also be that they're involving the testers way too far down the line, for example a week or two before release when there's no time left to correct anything. In which case that needs to change. I suspect there will also be some testers who just consider beta testing to be a free early access program and who don't provide feedback, I don't know if DTG has a process to filter out those join the program but don't contribute.
Yep, they definitely need sorting, but will it destroy the timings on the timetables if they fix this? If so, they may not decide to fix. However, I think AI uses basic physics, so may not impact the timetables as much. Also, I've been testing Skyhook's Aggregates wagons with the 66, they behave very nicely (braking wise), so at least we have some sort of reasonable freight experience. Will be interesting to see how those wagons operate with the 70 (don't have the 70 as of yet).
Looking back at this thread and all of the issues that have been mentioned with the 70, I do get the impression that maybe the 70 was “rushed” which is a shame. I could be wrong but with all the issues that have been mentioned which were at first not obvious but now very obvious, I do get the impression that it was either rushed or god knows. what Vern said I agree with, i think the loco itself is very good and we needed something different but yet again, with what seems to be every release, its the consistency of bugs and issues that plague these releases and its getting to that point where you have to question “why aren’t beta testers seeing this”, “has this been tested” etc etc. the 70 is still drivable for me which is good but just when you look at it and with the issues that have been stated, I feel sorry for the poor thing
I'm guessing either the mythical beta testers don't actually exist or the feedback they provide is completely ignored along with 99% of the feedback these feedback forums provide. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the 70 and don't regret buying it for a second, my questions are more for all the other obvious problems which come to light if anyone dares play for more than a few seconds either with a DLC release or the yearly upgrade which doesn't need to be a upgrade and results in more being broken than upgraded. What exactly is happening at DTG? Do the mythical beta testers actually exist? Do they exist and their feedback is ignored and not passed up the chain until a livestream occurs and all of the problems come to light to the surprise and shock of the DTG staff performing the livestream? Is anyone here actually on the mythical beta tester program or know of anyone who is? If so, has any feedback you've submitted been acknowledged and fixed prior to release?
Good grief. Don't know what's going on with the smoke but presumably it's similar to the lights in that they weren't tested on anything less than high / very high / epic settings. Just found this official image which I hadn't seen before, you can see the obstacle deflector that's a foot further back than it should be and more noticeably, the kit below the frame that's basically sitting on the rails... What a mess
I’m sure someone posted in another thread that Class 4 container flats normally run on passenger brake timings, though don’t quote me on that. The inability to get out of Rylstone once again highlights the complete lack of testing - maybe we can’t expect every single service to be hand played but any in a tricky situation should be. Though having to set back due to get a better start due to rubbish physics is nothing new… IIRC there was a run on Clinchfield in the snow where, due to DTG not setting up the banking comm feature, you had to roll back about 600 yards on to more level track to stand a chance of making it up the hill.
Given that a Class 70 is around 20% more powerful than a class 66 it doesn't equate to what I'm finding in the game. I feel like the Simugraph side needs reworking.
I no longer have access to the official Loads Book, but if a 66 is capable of restarting a 1050 tonne train on the 1 in 37 Lickey Incline, then the 70 would have been rated slightly higher. So it should certainly be handling these loads out of Rylstone Quarry without issue. As I no longer have the add on, perhaps someone could set up a free roam on BCC with the 70 and an 1100 tonne load (not Freightliner stock as we know that has other issues), start at Bromsgrove and drive half way up the bank, stop and see if they can get going again.
But would the class 70 be used irl Rlystone Quarry. Just asking cause I really dont where class 70 majn working lines are.
Unknown, but even if this is a fictional substitution it should still cope with the loads that a 66 would handle in real life, or for that matter on the OG runs on the Airedale route.
to be honest I abandoned it, the scenario markers are all over the place, all the yards and static locations are empty of stock, just felt like something thrown together at the last moment.
It just shows that there is no actual testing done . And if there is its just a quick run on route and thats it passed.
Think i'm glad I held off as I was all ready for it to be a day 1 purchase..... I'd not noticed the visual issues from all the pre-release images but once compared to real locos they are quite noticeable. As well as the power issues, brake issues and lighting issues though I keep seeing mention on FB of coupling issues too???? Are we saying this is another ROG 37 style issue whereby you cannot couple it to a lot of other stock due to the loco's couplings not being set correctly??? Again I have to agree that it's another case of beta testing either not being done well enough or being done well enough but raised issues not being rectified...... I really would love to know why the same old thing has seemingly gone wrong again with another product.
Slight correction to what I typed earlier, 1700 tonnes is of course over load for the Lickey which is why the 66 stalled out (eventually). But that still doesn’t excuse the poor performance of the 70.
