Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Patrick Kolinski, Nov 29, 2020.
Oh lord, what has become of this thread? SMH
Sorry I missed this comment while I was chatting with the other guy, I agree, IMO Pres.Co was handled pretty badly, at least the BR146 and 185 which are extensively used on new routes should have been in top shape from the moment they were released, but thankfully it seems like those DLCs will finally get the treatment they deserve, and some upgrades as well, but of course it will take time.
Sadly because of Covid we'll have to accept some "that'll do" attitude for some things, such as the Dash 8 sounds as from my understanding they can only work with what they already have (so I'm guessing a lot of material for LGV and SE HS will be in large part recycled from TS)... hopefully once we'll have access to better material (whether someone working on the railroad can record the sounds/ photographs/drawings/ documents, etc..., or DTG is allowed to do that themselves) we will see some attention to improving older DLCs as well as making new ones
While I agree with the OP, I do understand that DTG needs to still make money to pay their employees.
The thing is, they won’t continue to make much money if they continue to release routes/Locos in a bad shape. More time needs to be taken to review the routes, go through QA Testing (with real drivers), and make sure everything is there. No one wants to buy a half baked route with various bugs and incorrect sounds.
Yes, the game might be boring currently, but I don’t think it’s too boring. Sometimes being a T/O can be boring if there’s no issues during your shift.
Let’s remember that this is a Simulator, yes it has some “game” aspects to it, but it is a sim, trying to give us an immersive experience. That can’t be done if there are bugs, incorrect sounds, and missing pieces of scenery/inaccurate station designs.
Whoever made the poll - can you make any more one sided? -- It is nothing more than a loaded question very thinly put forth as a poll. So this isn't a poll - it is one's expression of opinion looking for others to support such. And I totally disagree with either proposed response.
This link might be of help if you really want other peoples opinions without imposing your own in the poll.:
As part of the training to become a driver on the Tyne and Wear Metro, you have to watch a solid grey screen for about 15 minutes, then they measure your response time when it changes colour, to test how you are with monotony, basically.
If (and I doubt it) we ever do get random events and a T&W Metro map, they will be one of these:
1. Fire alarm at station. Proceed to next station.
2. Your Metrocar broke down. Game over.
3. It's raining. There's a leak on your Metrocar. Game over.
4. Your Metrocar has been pelted with stones and other bits of whoknowswhat. Game over.
5. You're on 4057. Game over.
(2, 3 and 4 are real reasons a Metrocar has been taken out of service, 1 has become a surprisingly common occurance on the system recently, and 5 is a bit of a poke because 4057 is the least reliable Metrocar - I've seen graphs)
I'd probably have to think of strippers or something just to stop my brain from failing on a test like that, or at least a bottle vanilla coke to reward myself with for surviving the test......
That is true. Same as if there's an electrical failure that stops trains running. Being stuck at one station, or in the tunnel behind another service, for 45 minutes before finally being told your service is cancelled, would not be ideal. Hopefully, as has been done (I believe) in text boxes in TS20XX, you would just be advised to terminate at a station. (That's where actual use of the radio could come in handy.)
As for the train that took down the OHLE, they sent a diesel to the tunnel entrance to pull it out.
This is the problem dtg seem to be putting themselves in in my opinion. Yes they 100% do need to make money. Anybody who says that they don't should probably re-evaluate themselves. The problem is that they have a horrible track record of releasing dlcs that are a mess. Their first route addon that came out for this game had issues. The Bakerloo Line has clipping issues in several stations. When passengers get off the 1972 tube stock, there's still the issue of passengers standing on top of each other which was shown in the DEVELOPMENT BUILD of the game. A lot Preserved Collection trains sound horrible which make it practically unplayable for some people like me. The Long Island Railroad is my favorite American route in the game but I don't use it because of the audio issues on the M3/M7. There are passenger lighting issues on the 422 because the passenger lights are darker compared to what they were in tsw2020. I could go on and on about the number of issues this game has. I agree with what the OP is trying to say which is that the game needs to be improved. If they just continue releasing products in a bad shape, it'll get bad reviews and won't sell well which means they won't be making a ton of cash. A solution to this would be to give developers more time to make sure that the product is working properly so people won't complain even if it means we have to wait longer for a dlc to be released. That would be much better than getting a buggy product. They say that they test their routes but that statement is not reflected in the final product. I believe when you buy a product that you are looking foward to, you would expect it to not have so many issues. If the higher ups would give developers more time to make sure things work properly instead of releasing something that is in a bad shape then nobody would complain and everyone would be happy. I don't think it's fair at all to be bashing the op about a poll that wasn't even created when the thread was put up immediately. The poll came about an hour after the thread came out which I was not expecting btw. Nor should the op be getting bashed for expressing some valid points about some problems with the game. It's like if you criticize the game, you get bashed for no reason. I do think though that the poll could've been worded better though. It probably mislead people about the actual intentions of the poll and the thread. DTG does need to improve the game and balance releasing dlc's and improving the core of the game. The roadmap doesn't even discuss new features or core improvements to the game apart from new dlcs and bug fixes to routes so it may give a player the impression that they are mostly focused on releasing new dlcs and not adding new features and improving the core of the game. This is supposed to be a "new game" but it doesn't feel like a new game at times
Is tsw2 boring, the answer in my opinion is sorta. Let's face it all games get boring at some point. I do think to make it less boring there should be things happening when you do a timetable service such as an AI train being delayed. Perhaps your train has a mechanical problem so you may have to take the train out of service. Maybe a tree falls onto a track. Train drivers do experience issues with their train at times. Driving from point a to b or doing back and fourth services isn't smooth sailing so if dtg could give the player THE OPTION to have random things happen when your doing a timetable service such as the ones I just mentioned. This is supposed to be a SIMULATOR after all.
GFD. You wrote a whole damn essay.
The BKL also has sound issues, and issues with speed limits and the signs.
Facts, the P.Coll has horrible sounds now. The crazy thing is, they’ve shown that they can do better as they improved the Class 166 sound, but that was only because “one of the devs liked it the most”.
I could imagine the replies to this saying “but from a business perspective, that isn’t possible”
And it really takes away from the experience.
Sigh. People just don’t like when we report bugs or talk about how certain things could be better, or even how some things are just wrong. They might be okay with an unfinished product but I know some people like us aren’t.
The roadmap has just turned into a bug checklist.
Exactly. Maybe they shouldn’t add anything too dramatic like a fallen tree ending a service, but definitely something like passengers holding doors, delays, faulty signals (could require a key-by). These things would make it more realistic.
It isn’t smooth sailing period if the full route ain’t included.
Unfortunately, some people don’t see it as that.
? So a customer who didnt took what he paid for is a troll so ok, what i can say to you more..if you happy with this faulty product you order everytime...we ok, hand up!
When we first had the 158's at South Wales and West, @1991 - 158820 quickly became known as "Damian" for it's tendency to get halfway from Cardiff to Portsmouth or Manchester before breaking down and either having to run back ECS to Canton or towed back by another Sprinter. It even had a set of unofficial nameplates made (just sticky back plastic things), not sure if one ever got affixed to the unit itself but we certainly had one on the noticeboard in the Control!
Pretty regular to get, "Damian's failed again, don't know where you're going to find a set for the 1430 from", on shift changeover!
Don't try to reason with OP. I tried and I was laughed at. OP as well as a few other people in this thread are not here for open discussion but only to further their own argument, and ignoring/playing off other opinions. This is evident by the ridiculous poll itself.
I was told to ignore this thread if it is against my opinion and that I would not have to take part in the discussion or the poll if I did not like it. If these people don't see the inherent issue with arguments like that they have way bigger issues than a train simulator. This is all part of the fact by opinion culture instead of opinion by fact culture.
Ultimately, the intention of this thread is to cycle jerk OP's opinion instead of actually further a discussion, as everything else what it said is ignored or ridiculed.
Personally I think one can see how that won't help the players nor the developers. At least a good portion of people found other ground for discussion in this thread.
I will do as I have been told and just ignore this thread from now on, as it seems that other opinions are not wanted here.
One does wonder when all the parties claiming how the company we all know as DTG should be run and the decisions it should be making are going to stop stalking these forum corridors and prove that they're right, making the folks that have a open mind and can see the bigger picture eat massive amounts of humble pie, but alas they just keep stalking these walls and become a constant echo of shortcomings, never to prove themselves right, and so the cycle of these threads will never end, and the great war of the argument will forever rage on..........
That's definitely a problem with the forums itself. Doesn't tell you who started the poll when you initially open the thread. Admittedly, when I first saw the poll, I thought that OP made the poll - only to find out that someone else did. Wish it did tell us who made the poll instead of leaving us to find the post that contains it lol
I can see you ready to write a book about psychology right? C'mon Sir, here we are to talk with the players about it's time to fix the game, the core game, but you still can't see the problem...by looking on different things like this poll. If you don't see any problem on the game we ok, calm down....
You can start a poll on someone else's thread?!
You build a great base game with lots of features with consideration of "feature creep" Which is what you pay for in the first place. A product sold in a bakery will have its ingredients improved. Whilst Also Selling a special edition of it. for example a sausage roll and a Christmas sausage roll. You can't put all your eggs in a basket and hope this new Christmas sausage roll will sell.
Come on now, this isn’t how adult conversations work. Just because people disagree with you (however loudly) is no reason to chuck your toys out of the pram and go home. IMHO it’s why the world is in the mess it’s in now, because if you don’t agree with X, Y, Z opinion the new way of doing things is to shut people down, and too often people allow that to happen. This thread needs your opinion as a counterweight. For their part, people on the other side of the argument need to understand that not everyone shares their opinion. As is so often the case, the correct answer is likely to be somewhere in the middle. Clearly DTG can not and should not stop releasing DLC. At the same time we simply must start to see some progress with the game itself.
So whilst I don’t agree with the OP, or the polarising nature of the poll, I do have some sympathy with their point of view. We must not lose sight of that fact that TSW is a good game, but it could, and should, be so much better.
What this thread has shown is that people do give a s*** about TSW, and they do want it to fulfil it’s enormous potential. I hope DTG share that ambition, because the roadmap does not indicate that at the moment. It tells us what’s coming, but doesn’t share the longer term strategic vision, assuming there is one beyond simply more DLC. They have clearly started to listen, lets hope they take heed of the obviously overwhelming desire from people to see this game start to truly be the definitive ‘next gen’ train simulator.
I ain’t even know that. ITS A SETUP.
I mean frankly aren't they doing something in the middle by having the preserved collection team in the first place, which is looking at the older content in order to improve it? That's more than we've had in 10 years previously? In train sim classic they just released DLC and then never looked at them again (bar a couple of the recent extremely popular ones which got route extensions) Look at the difference between the original Reading to Oxford route from train sim classic and the south wales main line - the difference in quality is maaaasssive. With the preserved collection team, we hope that we will see old content continuously updated and maintained which looks to be the case. What the OP of this thread is asking for though, is for all DLC production to stop, which is never going to happen because in a few months time people will start losing their jobs, and the first to go will be the people who were specifically hired to improve the base game. In a years time the company would probably go under and then people would be pissed because now the game no longer has any support.
Also don't blame that guy whatsoever for leaving the thread when the OP is making passive aggressive comments to people who don't share his opinions. Why would you continue to comment in a thread when someone is being like that and doesn't understand that train simulators are a niche market and that just because the total cost of DLC is high, Dovetail games are not exactly rolling in money...
Originally, all they were gonna go was just bring them over to TSW 2 and forget about them until the community had a fit. If they would’ve just forgotten about those routes, TSW 2 wouldn’t have sold well.
It’s best not to stop creating DLC, but as I said before, if they keep rushing them out with all those bugs, people are gonna get tired and annoyed.
I can’t help but think you’ve completely missed the point of my last post. So be it.
Also, your last point....got any proof? The last time this conversation was had it appeared DTG were doing very nicely.
Proving my passive-aggressive point quite nicely, cheers.
Do you really think they are making millions off of a train simulation game? If they were, don't you think they'd have more mainstream competitors? Trainz and SimRail are probably closest, and neither are on console. Either way they are in business to make money, which yes does mean prioritizing making DLC, they don't make money from fixing old content, but as I said, this is much better than what they have done in the past with train sim classic.
Many of the problems people have - especially with sound - at the moment are to do with being in a pandemic, particularly with american content - it's not exactly easy to fly right now.
I think you can't expect someone to stay in a thread when 3 other people are shouting that they are wrong and not listening either... It goes both ways... so I'm out of this circlejerk as well.
The poll could've been worded better. If it was I don't think this thread would've gotten so toxic. It does show that people who do criticize the game do care about the game and want to see the core of the game improved. Just because a person criticizes the game doesn't mean you have to shut them down people. Yes at some point new features do need to come to the game whilst making new dlcs. This game can't simply just be about making dlc and not improving the game. DTG could at least strike a balance in that and I do agree with what your saying hightower
Ok Bye. ✌
Yep. They need to work on Core Game improvements. They can still create DLC’s, just don’t rush them out to where they release with so many bugs.
Articuno - Bleats about people being passive-aggressive
Also Articuno - "I'm out of this circlejerk"
Pot. Kettle. Black.
You can criticize the game without being aggressive to the developers and to other people, and without starting to shout what should or should not be done. The assumption is always that DTG knows better because I know very little about developing a game and I couldn't replicate what DTG did with TSW, this being said, if you think something could have been done better or something could be improved, you should of course point it out here or send a ticket, but if start with the idea of knowing better than DTG and they are a bunch of fools than you make sure that the thread will become a toxic shouting match.
"When i say improvements i mean DTG need to stop releasing new routes all again and finally focus on the base game"
"They cant write on the upcoming fixes that they will add the sun on the consoles..... cmon Normally they need to fix it no saying nothing, you know what i mean... "
This way of writing things is why this thread became what it is, if the OP just stated "this game is starting to become boring, I'd like if they added some random events it would make the game a lot better" this circus wouldn't have existed in the first place.
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/losing-love-of-the-game-sim.27702/#post-181331 looks at this thread, why didn't it degrade like this one? Just a bit less arrogance and a bit more respect goes a long way.
The sound issues with preserved collection is the result of dtg not porting the sound files from tsw2020 to tsw2 properly. It has nothing to do with the pandemic
But the pandemic impacted the sound of the Dash 8, and will probabily impact LVG and SE HS as well.
I agree that it was worded incorrectly but I do get what he's trying to say
I too got what he was trying to say, but after being called a brainless DTG fanboy which "will buy everything they release" I didn't really want to start a discussion with this guy, and I am not surprised people with different personalities than mine started to argue instead of talking on how to actually improve the game. If you word a post and a poll in such way your intent is just to start a discussion, and as such I agree with the guy saying that arguing with the OP is a lost battle and just a waste of time, there was recently a post made specifically on how random events could add a lot to the game, if I were you I'd go in that thread to talk about that topic and not in this dumpster fire.
When i brought up the sound issues, I only talked about preserved collection only due to the fact that they already had the audio files from tsw2020. That means they didn't have to recreate new files for preserved collection trains. They didn't port the sound files properly from tsw2020 to a lot of the tsw2 preserved collection trains. Of course the new trains may have audio issues due to the pandemic. That is understandable but when you already have audio files for trains that your gonna put in the new game that were in the old game, there shouldn't have been so many audio problems. I hope they are resolved soon so it will no longer be a game breaking experience for me
I did that to try to look at both sides
But who’s being aggressive towards the Devs? We’re trying to keep this peaceful, explaining how the game can be improved upon.
Exactly. The Preserved Collection sound issues can’t be because of the Pandemic. Those issues are definitely gamebreaking, especially when you always see/hear a train IRL, and it doesn’t resemble that in-game.
Would you agree that OP thinks DTG is a company full of money, only interested to rip us off with awful unfinished product and they release them in such state just because of us that "will buy everything they release"?
Really? I like Just Trains routes and have most of them but they are not of a better quality than DTG, the most recent MML routes are extremely good as is Cornish Mainline but I wouldn't say the earlier WML routes were as good neither routes going back further than that. I would say from comments I have seen on various forums over the years is that DTG's route building skills are highly rated.
My main problem with JT routes is the lack of stock released with them, DTG usually package enough stock with a route to run it "out of the box".
It is my opinion too. I voted for "for the buy everything option" as it is the closest to how I feel, however I don't purchase everything, I doubt that many people do.
A poll should, in my opinion cover a broad stroke of opinions, not just one which represents the pollsters personal point of view or if they want to slant it in a particular way to suit their own argument.
I don't get why JT can't include enough locomotives with the route that they release. I assume they would not lose as much cash if they did that.
Nnnnnnno, what I asked was, who’s being aggressive to the devs?
No one is talking about a rip off, we’re talking about how they can do better with the game. The OP actually said the game is boring and said some random things happening could change it. The OP also did lean towards saying DTG is “swimming with money”. Nothing about “interesting to rip us off”.
Your answer is not relevant to the question I asked.
That's true, I have a tendency to just imagine one person's opinion from a few words and I am not always right, still, the OP gave me vibes of someone that does not like DTG, whether I'm just reading between the lines or I'm just imagining things I don't know... I still feel the OP was about how DTG does not know what to do and need to listen to him, that knows better how to develop the game, but maybe it's just me
If the op didn't like dtg or if anybody didn't like the game, do you think they would waste their time on the fourms talking about ways to improve the game or even be playing the game at all?
Try to remain on topic everyone, we are getting dangerously close to simply bickering with one another.
(Thinking emoji) I’m imagining what the community managers are thinking while reading all of this...
Hopefully making notes of the more sensibly constructed arguments to feedback to the dev team / producers. Even the overall theme would be enough...i.e some core improvements please, 4 years is long enough.
I hope that they are making notes about improving the game and sending it back to the dev team. Your right about how it's been 4 years and not a whole lot as changed in terms of core improvements. I think it's about time to start adding some new things.
For the time being I’d be happy if they just addressed these long-standing issues with the game. Dismissing them as ‘complicated’ doesn’t fill me with a great deal of hope.
I agree espicially when you think they would have enough knowledge on how the engine works and the limitations of the engine. They been using the same one for 4 years now. They should also explain how is a particular issue "complicated"
Yes, 4 years without any general improvements is too long of a time to be waiting. Even just stability and optimization improvements would be greatly appreciated. Take some more time on the DLC's to get things right, find a way to include Random/Dynamic Events in a way that doesn't upset people. There's so much they can do with the game, but it seems like they are (were) staying in just one place.
I've noticed some changes, they've started a Roadmap to be more transparent with some of the stuff, but even that is limited. The Roadmap is littered with bugs, and when a new route/loco shows up on it, we get no information for a long time. We still haven't even gotten any information on SEHS.
They're starting to go back to older routes/locos to improve them. That is a good sign that I wish to see more of in the future.
Separate names with a comma.