General Discussion Has Survived (just)

Yeah, lets all use the mess that is discord which has zero structure and most of the time if you post looking for help with something your message gets lost in a sea of wibble. At least on a forum like this you can post something and easily find it again later on if needed.

 

Here it is.
Every now and then I take comfort in the fact that someone is gifted with a thinking mind and is therefore using their intelligence (which is a precious gift).

 

I seem to have been singled out in a train sim society video for calling Candace an AI bot? That was a joke for crying out loud based on earlier posts where people suggested she was.

I suggest you go back and read my comments in the thread in context.

I was pointing out the reasons dtg have given for closing the forums make no sense, repeatedly said my comments weren't directed at any individual and thanked Candace for being the most open and up front CM on these forums.

Edit: if people like "train sim society" are just going to post screenshots of posts and quote them out of context for clicks and engagement then I'm fully in agreement with getting rid of the forum.

 

I totally agree about this forum being friendly. Anyone crossing the line soon gets called out by other users.

 

Well... I will not say that removing General Discussion is a bad idea, it was already said, but basically removing ALL "free posting" sections? That's... something. This forums do not have moderating teams for whatever reason. And it should not be a CM's job to moderate forums.

So I cannot even imagine how their workload will increase after this, moving all the "I am not sure where to post, so I post it HERE" topics to the relevant sections, explaining to users why it was done and why it belongs here and not there, then moving it to another, even MORE appropriate section and so on...

I was there Gandalf 3000 years ago... I mean, 30. First in FIDOnet, then on www. That's a LOTS of work. Do not know who pitched it as a "workload reducing" action, it can result in it only if forum loosed at least 70% of users after it.

 

That's how reality works. Except there really is no special advantage to a "like" except that it's the digital equivalent of someone visibly nodding in agreement at what you say. Not sure why that's so triggering. I'm just curious if you get upset when people nod in agreement in real life.

 

You say that... but when I was first looking into TSW about 90% or more of the google searches were back to this forum.

 

We're discussing a new alternate backup forum on the other thread if anyone is interested.
Come on over and throw in your two cents.

 

I'm not saying that's the goal. I don't know. However, OTHER games have tried to "moderate" player interaction (reduce) while "maximizing sales." I don't know of any who have succeeded. Turns out the games with the most active fanbase tend to be the most supportive financially as well. Trying to separate the two so you get all the benefits of fans but not having to "deal with" the fan community (customers) is that mythological holy grail of corporate marketing teams everywhere.

Two sides of the same coin.

 

Regarding the GP60M. I personally don't care about that locomotive. I am not into freight and DTG have repeatedly said that freight doesn't sell well

 

Except Larry the Chief Mouser to the Cabinet Office.

As an American, maybe he should be promoted to the Office of Prime Minister

 

He'd do a better job than some of the recent PMs tbh

 

If DTG do not want a forum then why not give it to the fans and then they could run it? They could call it a 'Fan Site' if DTG can't handle hurty words so they can be separate from it no?

 

Anyone having a "dissenting opinion from the status quo" get called out by other users - fixed that for you.

 

"Oh No they Don't"..................lol

 

OH YES THEY....

 

Someone likes Panto eh? LOL

 

it’s very clear to me what DTG wants: they want to keep treating TSW and its consumers the way they have for some time now without having to read criticism
notice how any criticism immediately gets labeled a "personal attack" even when it CLEARLY isn't one

 

This is the same Dovetail who have a self-moderated Sub-Reddit, have a presence in every single (sizable) Discord server and made their own official one to effectively replace the community ones, have done their utmost to expand onto every other platform imaginable.
If there's a discussion of TSW, Dovetail want to be there.
There's no off-ramp for them.

 

Has it been mentioned that the General Discussion section will remain in the TSC section but only removed from the TSW section?????

What is the reasoning / support behind this from DTG?

 

Who doesn't love a Panto, especially one at Penistone!

 

I've just realised that TSC gets to keep it's General Discussion board? That's hardly fair.

 

does that mean we migrate there, as it’s the closest alternative to this subforum, and therefore increase the workload for dtg?

 

I'd like to partially disagree. In the feedback subforum, I express my opinion about the level of bugs in the game frankly and directly. After a hard day, I want to relax in the game, but instead I'm chasing bug after bug, and I can't enjoy the process. But my posts aren't being deleted. They don't fix these bugs, which irritates me even more, but CM accepts my criticism. Maybe they understand that I address all my emotions to the developers, and not to them, or maybe we are given freedom of speech as long as it has arguments behind it.

 

Yes and no.
They can more easily find and delete it there, but more importantly if they don't want feedback on something they just... don't post a thread on it. Can't reply to what doesn't exist. That's what makes Discussion different. It's Player created.

 

Farewell Honourable Member.


If DTG continues with this decision, I too will leave the forums, it’s not been an easy decision, but this is a direct consequence to DTGs actions.

 

Alright, so I have only skim read this thread as it is nearly 500 posts long, but I share the sentiment of most members - the general discussion subforum is the most active and most important subforum on the site for users, while understandably the feedback threads may be the most important for DTG. However, this doesn't mean the general discussion subforum should go, in my opinion.

This decision, taken at a time when players are rightly criticising bugs and quality issues in TSW, seems to have been poorly considered, without much thought of the reaction this would have from the forum - nearly 500 mostly negative posts in a day and a half surely should indicate how players feel about this.

Personally, I don't care about the off-topic subforum particularly. It's off-topic, as in the name, and I cannot at this moment recall anything I have used on it. However, the general discussion subforum is the one that comes to mind as being the one I read the most - and most of the posts I read on here would not fit in another subforum and would just cause a mess.

Like some other players, I have become disengaged with TSW since TSW5, and have not purchased any DLC in over a year. As it happens, I was playing again the other day after several months in order to obtain the mastery poster, so it is disappointing to come back to the game only to discover one of the key parts of the forum is to be removed.

I sincerely hope that DTG reverts this decision and does not proceed with the shutdown on June 30th.

As an aside, DTG Harry are you able to please advise if threads in the general discussion forum will just be locked, or if they will be deleted? Not much time for members to save important/useful posts if the latter.

candacedtg Personally of those options you suggest, I would think keep just General Discussion open. I personally would not be opposed to that, and I would imagine that when faced with the possibility of losing both or keeping one, most forum members would agree to keep General Discussion.

*EDIT - I would encourage you all to do the poll in this thread https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/gen-discussion-deletion-poll.98470/ (courtesy of trainsimplayer). Notably, thus far, 90% of players who responded to question A think General Discussion should be kept, and 94% of players who responded to question B think that if it is to be deleted, it should be archived.

 

what a beautifully articulated message, it’s clear that this subforum is more than just people complaining about tsw. it’s a tightly knit community that’s being ripped apart and there’s nothing we can do about it. dtg, i hope you’re happy. no one else is. it’s not too late to change your minds, it’s blindingly obvious that the wrong decision has been made but that can all forget for good if the rational choice is made. this is undeniably the biggest ever consensus in the long history of this forum, pray that common sense prevails

 

We need that in game!! Not holding my breath, though. But yeah, that would be a treat.

 

TSW Forum Statistics by Section
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AbX-tWKXphMcO-_KHDB2pjt5Fbn6sk69/view?usp=drive_link

 

I don't want to do discord.or any other social media. I've spent over 500$ on this game and now your taking away my only link to the TSW community. Great job DTG. Thanks

 

The Like button also prevents scores of “I agree” one liner posts with quotes following on. Oh, like this one!

Anyhow, in other news, my hard cull of the DLC was quite successful, down from 500 Gb to just under 200 Gb. So plenty of room to install a few other things. The Bus, for one. Maybe time to revisit Deus Ex or Fallout 4 again. And curing my TSW “addiction” also means I can look forward to spending the money on other things - the Iceland and then coach add ons for ETS2. Maybe expand Run 8 a bit more. Plenty of Steam Wallet credit for the next SimRail add on. Plus the hours of fun that wait in Farm Sim 25, particularly doing the free mod maps.

So, DTG, you actually need us far more than we need you. Think about that before making drastic changes to your long established forum.

 

When does the GD thread go offline?

 

If I read right, unless we postpone, it'll be archived (NOT DELETED) sometime on Tuesday

 

I really don't think this decision is about clamping down on criticism. Feedback and article threads are staying, which should be the place to provide proper feedback on routes and the issues people are facing.

It's also the place, I guess, most people visit to check the release state of DLC, and to check if the last patch resolved the issues people were having. It's also these are threads I'm searching when I have an issue i.e. with a service to see if I'm the only one. As these are the threads that give me answers to questions I'm looking for, not the 7th 10+ Page "DTG Has Lost the Plot" thread in General Section...

 

I find this a very sad decision. I don't post a lot, but I do read, and this is probably the main place where I get "engagement" with the community - especially things like the Masteries thread and Vern's A-Z thread a few week's ago give me ideas and a little more motivation to play the game. These are all things that are just 'general' discussion - they are not feedback about a particular route or solving an issue, or a suggestion, just general discussion about the game, and what people are doing in it, problems, enjoyment, and sometime just grumbling yes, but that is all part of the community for me.

 

Spot on

 

Yes I've been called a fanboy or accused of being on DTGs payroll for having a different opinion. Sometimes from quite prominent users. When I say something negative they click the like button and then later I'm back to being a fanboy again. It's pathetic and childish.

If they banned users for that, there would be a few prominent and popular users missing from the forums. I wonder how that would go down? DTG would be accused of censorship.

 

Have to disagree entirely with this comment. As the CMs and devs have said repeatedly. Constructive criticism is always welcomed and encouraged. Saying things like "this is rubbish" "DTG dont care" or pointing the finger at individuals in the business is not sensible criticism and adds no value to the post other than personal feelings, which are okay to share, but sharing that alone isn't really criticism that can be taken on-board or helpful for DTG. Many fixes that get pushed through are partly down to us giving feedback and many times when the fix is received I see the appreciation for it through comments and reviews. The engagement already on this thread is an obvious sign they are listening and taking on-board our views. We will see what happens but I can guarantee they are listening loud and clear to everything being said with this situation.

 

This guy gets it.

 

I agree that it's likely something new is coming, although I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that it'll be sooner than expected.
The fact that they've kept this place going for years has to earn them good credit.

TSW has run its course, especially on console.
They want this board gone. Companies employ short-term 'boat-rockers' to clear people from the decks.
Here's hoping for something great, or at least better.

 

Maybe we should all invade there, putting [TSW] at the beginning of each thread, so we know it's only for TSW

 

Jan has posted on the announcement thread - don’t know how to quote on mobile - but long story short they are considering changing the initial plan due to the feedback and will keep us updated.

 

We'll see if that actually means anything...
In the meantime, we should keep making ourselves heard.

 

i would like to thank DTG for at least making notes and considering changes that could suit us better.

 

We'll have to wait to actually see what is actually set in stone once the dust settles...

But if we have have prevailed, regardless of our differences of opinion at times I would be incredibly proud of those in the community that have passionately advocated for General Discussions survival.

 

Good to hear. Can't say losing GD is enough to make me want to bin the game, but it has made me suspicious of the company's motives. Perhaps that says more about me than them, in which case I'll happily take that one on the chin and use this as a reminder to myself to be more trusting in future. We'll see ...

 

That’s the irony of it all, they can only actually see the impact that decision had because of General Discussion.

There would have been no feedback thread for it from DTG, and even in this thread whilst you can see a notable response with many comments & those comments receiving significant community reaction in terms of likes & responses. It’s not until you look at other GD posts such as the poll & you can see there are over 200 users in support of GD - no small number for a train simulator.

I’ve said it twice already but I’ll say it again, I do not want any & all discussion & feedback to turn into threads like ‘enough is enough’. They go on for far too long to sustain the original message & similar things happen with feedback threads, issues get left in a swarm of conversation that’s not even necessarily off topic. GD serves as a way for the more popular community sentiment to stay relevant for longer - never mind the community resourcing it offers.

 

One of the best things for me about the forum is when a route is announced, then there is always that anticipation and discussion centred around what might be included and where it might go. The JT routes in particular for me are very interesting in that regard as it leads to discussion about the "old days".

I was thinking about that this morning and wonder if DTG really wants to lose that aspect of the forums. It does sound like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

 

In that case the forum needs to be allowed to continue until a decision is made.