General Discussion Is Gone

Haha true that. I got ‘pulled up’ for daring to ping a dev on their Discord.
I left their server and the tripe that was in it - never looked back since!

 

That kind of ran through my mind too. I was also thinking if DTG don’t like the criticism this game gets from people. The endless requests to fix bugs and audio etc. It’s a very good point. Seems a bit over the top and I don’t think the forum would be too happy about it but if they really wanted too they could have just banned the discussion of other Train Sims but I reckon if they did that it would make DTG look a bit insecure lol. However the off topic is pretty much a place to discuss anything you want outside of TSW. Many forums have an off topic section.

 

It will be quite entertaining to watch the blowback on this, no doubt a few youtube channels will be already running with this and videos will be appearing anytime now.

The thing that baffles me the most, this is a generalisation but the point largely stands, is that the older players are more likely to be present here than on discord, where the younger players would be hanging out and yet it is the older player who has money to spend on as many DLC's as they wish rather than kids and teens who rely on pocket money, weekend jobs or birthday presents.

Way to go Supreme Leader, another glorious decision to alienate your playerbase, hail!

 

Knew this would happen once they went onto that mess Discord, can't bloody stand it

This is no doubt the beginning of the end of this forum

 

This will be my cue to get back into SimRail!

 

It would be interesting to know exactly which position (or positions) in the company conceived this? CM or Senior CM, EP or higher than that?

 

It’s a clear fact that DTGs position is untenable.

We are going through a time now, where we are ALL witnessing them for who they are.

Since the acquisition from focus, DTGs incompetence and business model, has increased tenfold.

a disgraceful QA backlog, a core on the brink of collapse, a game that is getting more and more unstable with each release.

I’m growing more and more convinced that this general discussion deletion is the final nail in the coffin between the last shred of relationship DTG has with the community.

 

That's a really good point.

One could argue, there are specific forums for the topics discussed in the off-topic sub. But those are entirely different platforms that don't have the same user base as this forum.

And the point of any off-topic sub in any forum is for a community to exchange with each other on other topics. The emphasis being on the community.

I care for the opinions of the people I interact with within my hobby, not random people I've never heard of on the internet in general. There's this really nice thread about people's first memories of trains or how they became a rail fan. Where would that go in the future?
Where's the community part of the forum gonna happen?
A bug reporting bulletin board, well, there's a ticket system and discord could be flooded with those posts as well. Any forum is a third space for a community, and those are important, like your town/neighbourhood pub. I don't go out to the next town's pub to socialise and get my fill of community, I go to my town's pub. Metaphorically speaking, since pubs are dying, people drink less etc. But the thrid spaces are getting less and less.

Have we learned nothing from the pandemic years of recent?

 

JD needs to come out of his ivory tower as director of community (if that’s still his job title) and engage with the community he is overseeing being ripped apart by DTG internal policies.
Absolutely no disrespect to Jan, Harry & Alex but they only have limited say in what happens and I really do think he owes it to the community he (along with Nat) fostered and grew, and to see the strength of feeling and anger this is causing.

 

The unfortunate thing is that even with that, it won't impact TSW sales.

They keep the most important parts for them (feedback, community creations and suggestions) and throws the rest (which is important for the community), but ultimately it takes away the forum/community aspect, in my opinion.

Even though we still have suggestions subforum, personally I find it so vague that we never know if our suggestion will be taken into account or not.

And for PC editor/Creator Club I think it's just sharing, but with very little interaction. So we don't have that forum-like exchange aspect.

 

To DTG: There's much of value in the General and Off-Topic threads, and their presence also encourages community, which is always good for you and the game. Bringing people in and convincing them to stay is always the most important thing. You're human too, and I can understand the frustration with the forum atmosphere, but this feels like the same kind of knee-jerk overkill that some of the community engage in too often when they're unhappy about something. Please look for ways to add to the forum rather than just subtract.

To the forum: Nobody's happy about this decision. But if we want to convince DTG to reconsider, unleashing the worst toxicity they see here on a regular basis, doubling that, and directing it directly at them will not do that. Please look for ways to add to the forum rather than just subtract.

 

You know what's the worst thing about all this, is the 3rd parties who are now going to be tarnished by DTGs actions, i wonder what there take on this is.

 

Nothing will make me use the app with the biggest problems of scams and CSAM.

Another poor choice in a long list of poor choices by DTG,

 

Emotions have been drowned with lemonade now so I have a clearer head.

I am still saddened by this but it is just a forum - I can always play with the trains.

However, it is still a great place to be because of the discussions that were had in the general discussion (and the PC, PlayStation and Xbox sections of the past). It's going to be a shame to lose all of those and those in the Off-Topic section.

We can still talk about the game but it'll be more centralised. The reason I never really participated in the Article Discussion parts is because it required regular check-ins and I wasn't bothered to do that much reading. Guess that'll have to change.

I maintain that the forums will become more of a feedback forum than a discussion forum, and I don't really want that.

I also notice that DTG are going to do more strict moderation now. Why couldn't this be done without changing the forum structure?

I'm still going to be here and I'll probably get used to the new format but I am going to miss the discussions in Off-Topic.

 

I have been trying to identify my reaction to this annoncment and the only emotion I can come up with is sadness over the loss of community. I feel I have developed some form of friendships over the years sharing favorite moments while interacting with the sim. Butting heads over various different problems, glitches and opinions about the same. Being disgusted about the reactions over many over what I consider minor nits...but also enjoying such diversions such OldVern and I are now doing of making a virtual trip from Eastbourne to Carlisle and sharing that adventure in General Discussions.

Being of an age where many would classify me as being in the older group - (been involved with IT since the '80's - we built much of this infrastructure you young whipersnappers are now using ) I am an advide user of Discord - but Discord does not instill a sense of community as do forums. And it is that sense of community that kept me using TSC over the years and what would always bring me back to TSW after my sabaticals to MSFS or other diversions. When I did return, my first stop would be the forums to read all the happenings in General Discussions which would get me engaged and at times excited about new content and added to the enjoyment of the simulation.

It is sad to see the short-sightedness of the corporation not to put a value on that sense of community. For me - it will be a loss when this section goes away.

 

I don’t see toxicity, I see a uniting of righteous indignation at an incredulous decision taken somewhere in the DTG hierarchy. Which I consider entirely justified, killing off a community arrangement which has stood the test of time since the product came into existence.

 

Welcome to EA games.

 

This is very disappointing news. I come here every day and have found it a great resource for mods, fixes, upcoming releases etc. I fear losing this forum will diminish my interest in TSW greatly. I understand some people have been disrespectful and overstepped the mark but surely its possible to deal with them not all of us. I fear DTG maybe risking alienating the older members (like me) on this forum who find Discord difficult to follow and childish. Don't forget all those economic reports that say its the older generation who have a lot of the spending power. I hope DTG can rethink.

 

This one definitely worth a ping and they can ban me for doing so if they so desire… But DTG JD , DTG Alex dtg_jan this is a good example of an ongoing, progressive and evolving discussion which does not fit on Discord, Facebook or anywhere else. So can you please answer the direct question - where in the Great New World of the condensed forum would we post discussion of that nature. A positive reflection on gameplay that might actually enthuse others? Or do you really not give a carp about the player base, we are just walking £££ signs?

 

I agree with the gist of this, but there's plenty of less-righteous indignation also--insults, tantrums, hyperbole, comparisons to RL murderous regimes.... Basically, some of the forum demanding that DTG change for the better while they stay the same or get even worse. Which will further justify the reasons for DTG's decision rather than refuting them. What's the ratio of constructive, or at least dignified, protests to the rest in this thread, do you think?

 

I don't like this decision from DTG. In my opinion it isn't a forum when you can only give feedback and ideas. The open conversation is gone. I'll have to consider if I will quit this forum and eventually move towards Discord. Only thing I can agree with, is the stricter moderation.

 

If you need stricter moderation then great that's absolutely understandable. The CM team are people and deserve respect. However we know that discord is worse for moderation issues from a CM.

But think of all of the things we would not have if not from the discussion forums? The age old story of the forums going crazy for a toilet in the game? The saga with Verns quest for a buffet car finally being delivered by JT? JD leaking a whole version of TSW, that would've died off if not for the forums? Almost all of the hype and speculation goes through the forums. And discord won't change that.

If we can't have discussion forums it's all just going to disappear

 

Unlikely to be the EP mate. My guess is the senior CM.

 

This is a great shame…’shame’ is definitely the most appropriate word !. I’ve been on the forum since 2018 and a loyal paying customer of DTG for the same period. Thank you to all those who have helped me directly and the many others who have provided invaluable knowledge & support. Whoever thought this was a good idea should be awarded the M.B.E. (Massive B**l End).

 

Pandering to them doesn't work either. DTG should be thick skinned about the response…its NOT a personal vendetta against any individual CM but in usual DTG style they bury their head in the sand and when they do come up they over-react. For me its a complete lack of respect for the community!

 

It could be budgetary and even at director level they’ve had little option especially if they’ve been targeted to focus on discord by PullUp. The community team will have a pot of money and they have to spend that whilst meeting their business objects. But if this is the case then whoever is setting the budgets needs telling this is a shortsighted course of action which is only going to hurt them in the long term. Players spend more money when they feel part of community (otherwise no developer would ever spend money on community managers in the first place), destroying that community can only have the opposite effect in the medium to long term.

 

Funny how this has just appeared out of the blue. Nothing at all about WHY the General and off topic sections are going to vanish. Surely a Mod can come in here and explain in more detail to everyone ??. Should have been explained straight away anyway….

 

We can't understand a damn thing anymore.
We're not even sure "WHO" does "WHAT" in this company anymore.

 

dovEtAil Games

 

Most of the general discussion was all just big elobrate conspiracy theories anyways and false information spreading.

Very few actual helpful threads anymore .

It used to be you asked a question you got many answers, now you ask a question and get insulted many times and maybe an answer.

And how many multiple threads on the same topics do we need.

I don't blame them for getting rid of it.

 

Well there's one thing whoever did make the decision failed to account for, Star Trek, Star Wars, Ubisoft, Electronic Arts and there parent studios and backers failed to understand, is a simple thing that is taught to almost everyone in life, is don't bite the hand that feeds you, they and many others learnt the hard way, looks like DTG didn't learn by watching.

 

Other than the image hosting, how much does a forum actually cost to host and run (moderation aside)? Surely slicing off a part of it is not going to save that much money. moderation was always passive anyway particularly at weekends. So unless there are huge redundancies on the PR side (including terminating the contract with the US PR firm - Candace) it's going to save them a few £ at best but lose far more in goodwill and future revenue. And the sections being retained - feedback and troubleshooting, not to mention those, "I must have this route" essays in Suggestions will still be packed with images.

 

The irony of this one is that DTG have inadvertently created a ton of new threads/activity for them to have to moderate as well lol.

 

I notice that Harry has been promoted to CM and Social Media Manager now.

Maybe less heads has prompted consolidation.

 

The forum used to be a great place and there is no denying that recently it's just been a bit toxic.

If it had been moderated properly and they actually solved issues instead of yearly updates that start out broken, maybe we wouldn't be here today.

I still think it's a big mistake. Amongst all the complaining and conspiracy theories there are still a lot of useful and interesting posts, they are just harder to find.

Moderate it properly and fix the game and we can all go back to how it was

 

It’s funny you should say that… Many, many moons ago when Matt P. was just the owner of UK Trainsim, I accompanied him on a visit to Kuju at Godalming where Rail Simulator (forerunner to Railworks and TSC) was unveiled. With EA backing the project it was actually made clear they wanted to gear up for all discussion about the game to be hosted in house, thus presumably retain full control over it. Fortunately wiser heads prevailed and UKTS became the main go to for discussion until of course that went away. So it appears 19 years later, not only is the EA ethos being practiced at DTG, it’s being taken to its extreme.

 

Terrible decision and clearly nothing to do with "more difficult to manage compared to our newer community spaces"

We're hardly taking about hundreds of posts per hour posted by hundreds of active users. Is it really that hard to warn people if their posts or attitudes are causing a problem and dish out the occasional ban/suspension If a problem persists? A bit like the way many 1000s of other forums manage themselves and have done for many years?

If the reason being given us the actual reason, why aren't you also removing general discussion and off -topic from the TSC forum seeing as those forums also require managing in the same way these soon to be deleted forums are?

I can guess the real reason why you're doing it and it's not the reason you give.

 

Such a bad and unwise decision to shut down the part of the forum where general constructive critisism and general information is given.

 

Well, it was nice chatting with you all and sharing photos of and discussing our other hobbies in the OT Forum.

I'll continue to lurk for bugs and stuff, but this decision is just a huge slap in the face to the community. I've had a less than stellar opinion of DTG for a bit now, but this is just flat-out bad.

 

That's assuming that DTG management thinks the purpose of a community is discussion and interaction, and not just posting marketing materials. We are perhaps incorrectly assuming that they share the idea that the forum is for community engagement and camaraderie. What if that's not a goal at all?
Discord is sufficient (and free) if all you want to do is post occasional marketing materials.
Sadly the biggest reason to have Discord is for multi-player game play which TSW does not have and we're told will never feature.

 

Does anyone have an idea what is meant by them saying the community is "growing" and "used to be much smaller?"
I was under the impression they wanted to close the forum for being too few people... now they want to close most of it for too many people.
Anyone know how to get accurate numbers for predictive trends?

 

With TSW7 probably around the corner the timing of this is er odd to say the least.
Do they know that TSW7 is going to be a marmite release and they are wanting to stifle the expected backlash from sections of the community?

 

Perfect example of why they want to get rid of it.

Look how many threads there are about the general discussion being removed already? They are phrased differently but its all the same topic and redundant.

 

Discord: the place you go when you don't want to find information

 

Agreed but it's probably too late. The toxicity has been going on for a long time and shows no signs of improving.

Even a thread about updates has become a thread moaning about updates.

 

Well I suspect the community is more than this forum.

 

Says it all honestly!

 

Just fancy meaningless titles. If your job doesn't have a title you’re nothing anymore….if DTG put in as much effort into the community as they do with all this ‘ooh look at me, I’m a manager now’ nonsense we wouldn’t be in this mess right now!

 

They look to be different with different purposes though. Just being about the same topic isn't automatically "the same thing." Different threads are for discussing different aspects of something separately. This avoids people talking over one another in a chaotic and confusing manner.

Kind of like Discord often devolves into...

That itself illustrates why a single jumbled thread is a terrible idea.

 

As much as we have disagreed about the General Discussion subject, I agree here, hostility on the forums has increased dramatically over the last year to the point I haven't blamed staff for taking a step back.

I think for me at least, DTG, even if they aren't necessarily posting, could have a better moderation presence. Some of the nastiness can go on for a day or two before it's even noticed. Alot of people are against the idea, but I'd like to see some established members become moderators voluntarily to counteract that.

Just for clarification I wouldn't want such a position myself as I feel I'd have to be indifferent and neutral with my opinions, but there are some decent people on this forum that could fill such a role. However it looks like DTG hasn't considered the option and just decided to nuke things.