1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

General Thoughts On Tsw And Developments

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. Juxen

    Juxen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    323
    Maybe. Unreal just released a trailer showing off their new Unreal Engine 5. If someone made a train sim in that, they'd likely take the entire customer base from TSW. Massively improved graphics and higher speeds sound amazing.
     
  2. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    2,012
    If we’re talking solely about DTG here, then not necessarily. UE4 can and does look and perform amazing with the right plugins etc but DTG barely utilise the engine in its graphics department and the game ends up looking very average. Not to mention they’re using an outdated version as it is.

    If they ever did use UE5, no doubt it wouldn’t be a free upgrade and would be sold as a new game entirely.

    I can’t talk about other studios and developers but I reckon we’d have the exact same issues we face now.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2019
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    157
    All this talk about updating to a new engine. Dovetail can't even fix the spotter buttons in the SD40-2. :D I just tried the Power Line scenario in CSX:HH again. Same old bug which has been there for nearly a year now. No shortage of new things to buy since this bug was introduced though. Same old bugs with ATC and signals in NEC too. Same old bugs with needing to open doors on the wrong side of the train in NEC and GWR. Etc etc etc...

    And to think, the moderators of the Discord servers looked for excuses (and didn't even bother looking for an excuse in one case) to ban me, simply because I don't sing Dovetail's praises 24/7. What is so praiseworthy? If these people actually like the game, they would point out the major flaws like these and not let Dovetail continue to memory hole them. I could live with the more minor annoyances like rain sounds an grass footsteps inside of New York Penn if they actually fixed the major gameplay affecting issues, but they rarely do. Way too many people will white knight for Dovetail and buy every DLC, when the company just doesn't deserve it. Maybe Matt left the main server because it was easier to run from the problems than to fix them? Maybe people are "toxic" (aka critical of the game) for a damn good reason?

    I really want to like this game, and I keep reinstalling it every year or so, hoping that it will be better. It has so much promise to be good, and some aspects of the game are genuinely good. But every time I try, I am reminded of why I keep uninstalling it and not buying anything new. If they won't support their older stuff, why would I ever buy newer stuff? Especially when the newer routes like Oakville look like they are even worse than the older routes, and will probably never be improved if Dovetail keeps their track record. I actually laughed out loud when I read that they "fixed" all of the inaccessible tracks on that route by removing them from the map. Now I am laughing again just thinking about it, LOL.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
    • Like Like x 9
  4. sinnere

    sinnere Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2019
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    25
    Seems like most on here cherish eye candy over everything else.

    They don't care how inaccurate the physics are or how many bugs there are along each route - just as long as they have some new eye candy rolling in every month or so..
     
  5. Mariano

    Mariano New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2020
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    17
    That is exactly what I always think of...
    I guess the definitive Train Sim I want to play, is only a dream right now...
     
  6. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    2,012
    Bugs, missing features, inaccurate physics etc - no wonder it gets criticised for not being a ‘proper’ simulator.

    Perhaps it isn’t fair to call it an arcade simulator but it certainly isn’t near the level of a ‘proper’ train simulator at this stage in my opinion..

    Would I call it a Train Simulator?
    Yes, but barely. It’s more like a ‘work in progress train simulator’ albeit moving at a very slow pace in adding vital features.

    Also not really sure how to please everyone but catering more towards ‘casual players’
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Discord Server moderators feel strong because they are behind a keyboard. Little arrogant bullies. I'd like to meet one in person, so let's see how it ends.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Juxen

    Juxen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    323
    With all this talk of the lack of updates, bug fixes, and poor visuals, at least Derail Valley is getting a new update next week. At least they're still putting out fixes, bugs, and general improvements. I've started using DV as my go-to realistic sim.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    495
    We must be careful to not equate Dovetail Games the company with their discord. The discord is a community run server and has no bearings at all to the company. Although you are correct in your assessment because I was also banned likely for voicing my constructive criticisms. But all of that has nothing to do with TSW the simulator or Dovetail. Unless there is definitive proof that this censorship effort came from a voice within the company, I think this conversation is best suited somewhere else.


    All I have to say is that the numbers speak for themselves. The last 3 DTG TSW products (M3, HRR, OSD) have had a Mixed review rating (the DB BR 204 was made by Rivet) based on aggregate Steam review counts. If that doesn't get them to change the way future DLCs are made or the level of quality expected by their consumers, then I'm afraid nothing will. Based on the lack of changes done to LIRR other than a UI change which allows you to select the formation of the train (platform clippings still persist, pillar clipping at Penn Station, no AI traffic added, no trackside scenery added - milepost/speed limit signs, no improvements to safety system, etc.), this leads me to believe that all of that development time that likely SHOULD HAVE been spent on improving the route for the M3 release, must have went somewhere else. Perhaps rail adhesion/weather update or maybe even a longer than average route. Otherwise there is no excuse to have not added to the route, and not have that time spent improving the simulation significantly. My expectations for the next DLC are sky high, based on the lack of effort done to LIRR.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  10. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    Standby to be sorely disappointed....
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2019
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    157
    I know it's community run, but it's more of a point of how some people in the community are contributing to the problem. Dovetail only operates this way because they get away with it. If people stopped blindly defending them and buying everything they put out, including some certain Discord server moderators who hold a large influence on the community, stuff would change. Even if Dovetail just abandoned TSW, which IMO would be an amazingly short sighted business decision, it would still be preferable. Maybe something new and better would come from the vacuum.

    You could have a point, but I think it's more a matter of the fact that they need to push out a new DLC every month, and the worldwide quarantines have made their jobs a bit harder. I would certainly love to see a very large TSW 2021 update which greatly improves the core sim, and maybe even goes the extra mile to fix years-old bugs with old content. This would give me some faith in Dovetail, which would be nice because all they have done over the past several years is given me more reasons to be cynical with them. Will this actually happen though? Well, to get the most likely answer, we'd need to look back on the major yearly updates for TSW and TS1 and see if they've ever done this before. To my knowledge, they have never added anything more than minor features in the yearly updates.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
  12. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    640
    Well, while it is a community-run server, the Staff were actively apart of it. And in essence, they are representing a company that pretty much encourages censorship behavior. Truthful criticism is frowned upon in that server, even if points made have validity to them. I don't necessarily care to be under watchful eyes, of those that opt/elect to pretend that problems should be addressed, don't exist.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  13. In every forum in every country and category there is always a certain number of users who agree with everything DTG offers (and this applies to forums of any topic in general). Since users of these forums are protected by a very vague nickname( as well is mine) and identity, who can say they are not colluded?
    On the contrary there are also the Trolls.
    Never completely trust what is written in a forum, especially if it is supervised by the creators of the product itself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    67

    Excuse me i dont always agree with DTG on some things so id like you not to assume that in every category and country there is a certain number of users as you would be adding me to your assumption list
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. rabid

    rabid Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    39
    I endeavour to stay positive as I have invested a lot in TSW, but if I am honest there are some things I am concerned about. I think TSW has been quite a success on console despite the disappointing lack of optimisation for the more powerful mid-gen models. Matt I believe has alluded to the fact (Discord IIRC?) that the console user base now far outweighs that of the PC, which means there is less and less financial motivation for DtG to share the editor with anyone other than approved partners such as Rivet Games. This I find worrying, and the lack of news on this point only serves to feed the flames of anxiety.

    Nevertheless I place my faith in the integrity of Matt who seems to be a thoroughly decent chap, and has been producer since the inception. If DtG were ruled with an iron hand as some have suggested, would he still be working there?

    And what other alternatives are there? TS1 has some great routes but the graphics are getting very old. Trainz is in dire need of a newer, better optimised graphics engine. Even the latest iteration TRS2019 seems to run poorly for me on a GTX2080Ti, and it really, REALLY needs some professionally-made up to date content.
     
  16. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    2,012
    For anyone referencing Discord as a good source of information, several DTG developers have now left the server so it is no longer a ‘better’ place than anywhere else in regards to finding out information.

    This essentially means that all platforms receive little to no information or communication publicly. Including these forums.
     
  17. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    I used to quite like Discord, and the DTG staff that were there were very good, and open to constructive discussion of all that is good, and bad, about TSW. They were also helpful if there was a problem.

    With them having left, and the rather heavy handed moderation (at times) it’s essentially the same few people having the same discussions going round and round in circles, mainly hypothesising about what new DLC & features they want to see that very rarely ever come to fruition. It’s rather lost its mojo to be honest.

    I might be 1000 miles wide of the mark, but I can’t help but feel all this has changed as a result of the leaking of that FGW content for GWE. I know a couple of them were very uncomfortable with the thread remaining on this forum as long as it did, and not long after the best community manager I think there’s been is suddenly on his way. Not long after that the Devs themselves disappear from Discord, no doubt also fed up of every little thing they said being reported on here as fact.

    It might all be complete coincidence but whatever it is, a valuable source has gone and what’s left in its place is barely worth the time of day.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  18. hyperlord

    hyperlord Active Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2019
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    235
    And EPIC changed, that a developer can use UE for free until they make more than a million $ with the made game!

    Source:
    https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/faq

    What is the Unreal Engine End User License Agreement (EULA) for Publishing?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  19. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    You can make that argument for many people on the internet, lots of people feel emboldened to make threats when they are behind a keyboard too. I imagine if we were all sitting together having a pint in a pub we would all get along, even if we disagreed on certain things and there would be little arguing.

    No, you just don't seem to understand that some people enjoy the sim despite its flaws, if you are arguing that anyone who isn't constantly complaining are trolls then that is a ridiculous and pathetically one sided argument. I enjoy it, yes there are flaws and if you searched all my posts on here and other forums you will find me being critical too, I just don't spend all my time obsessing over it, there is enough going on to worry about at the moment and playing trainsims are one of the things keeping me sane!

    As for DTG not allowing criticism considering some of the things which have been said on here and how much rope some members had to hang themselves before being banned, I think DTG actually are far more open to allowing criticism than many other companies.

    There are many examples of trolling as can been seen by events of recent days on some other threads. There is trolling from "all sides of the argument" as some clearly think there is some kind of battle going on, I find it laughable that some seem to trying to turn there views into some kind or moral high ground!

    Are you suggesting that those who don't criticise all the time, are plants by DTG or staff members under assumed nicknames, that is ridiculous if so?!

    Anyway I am going to play with some trains!
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
    • Like Like x 5
  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    1,334
    Ooooooh, I know what you mean....! Don't you just hate it when people use the "moral high ground" approach....!? I am very glad to see that you are clearly not one of those people. No..... Never.....! Nope - you never ever do that. Can't imagine you doing that. Not your style. Nope - you certainly don't prefer to sit on high horses and look down on people - of course you don't do that. Noooooo..... Absolutely not. Never.

    Ooooh, by the way. Have you got any more of that rope on offer.....? My friend Synthetic Angel has run out of the supplies you so kindly provided.
     
  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    How would you know, you are new forum member who isn't even interested in trains! Or are you just a fantasist!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. I never said that we must necessarily criticize the TSW. It also has positive aspects. I was trying to say that there are people here who evaluate the negative and positive aspects. For me, as for many others, TSW can be criticized on some aspects such as the presence of bugs (never corrected) or the lack of development of features that compromise, in my opinion, the immersion in the program. However, I think those who consider ANY type of product (a video game, a car, a smartphone, etc.) as something that cannot be improved because it is already at the highest levels, they can only be defined in one way: fanatics.
    Finally, the fact that many users are fully satisfied with the product in its current condition does not bother me. The only thing I want to clarify is that I don't rely on the opinions of others. I have my opinion and my tastes.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  23. doublefine7

    doublefine7 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    19
    My personal point of view is: When I bought TSW, I expected it to be different, to be different to TS 2020. And CSX:HH made me think it is different. TS 2020 is (basically) sitting in the cab, reading the scenario and then go. But TSW was different. You had to do all the startup stuff, preparing the loco and train. But after three years, TSW is basically the same gameplay then TS 2020, just with slightly better graphics.. And this is disappointing. I expected TSW to be more simulation, more focused on the train experience as a whole, not just driving a train. But TSW is the same as TS 2020. Hop in a cab and go. Safety systems are not mandatory and essential stuff like the german EbuLa isnt there. If I would have to write a review about TSW, I would write: If you want to drive a Train, get TS2020. It has more content. By far. TSW is just kind of a better looking TS2020 2.0.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    I agree with that and I could think of many things that could be improved and improvements which could be made. I just don't think it is as bad as the impression you can get reading posts on here.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page