I went through many times the tables posted earlier but still don't understand something. The problem comes when I try to calculate max speed with the help of the ruling gradient / brake weight table. If my brake wight is 0.66, then I use the column 65 (as there is no 66) on the horizontal column. The Riesa-Dresden ruling gradient is 1.1 % if I am right. This is 11 per mille so I find 10 in the vertical column. Then I find that in the 10 per mille P/R row it gives to 30 km/h max speed under the 65 column. Is this calculation correct? How comes that if the ruling gradient would be 2.5 % , then the max speed was higher (50 km/h under 65 column)? I am missing something I am afraid.
I don't go to those lengths. Generally I run the freight at no more than 90km/h apart from container traffic where I may go to 110 km/h. Really all the freight trains in TSW not just the German ones should have the maximum speed (Vmax) determined by the speed rating of the vehicles in the consist. Something I doubt has changed in TSW3.
I get you, but I try to go a bit deeper and I really enjoy the calculation process thanks to Lamplight who posted those tables in another spread. So my question is still the same: is my calculation correct? How come the higher gradient has higher max speed?
This is a bit more complex to answer and has been discussed indepth in the thread https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...n-driving-freight-trains-realistically.44532/ that you most probably have read. To your question in particular just three points: 1) Brake Table I don't know what brake table you are referring to, but one problem is that we do not have brake tables for the regular braking distance of 1,000 meters with current values. All we know is the general layout of those tables and tables with (most probably) partially outdated values. Mind also, that the table that is published in the OP of the thread mentioned above is most likely an Austrian table, at any rate not a German one. The table that OpenMinded and me used in our tool to create Buchfahrpläne for the freight services in DRA uses the following values (for all brake settings other than G; brake setting G has a similar table with different values): The first column specifies the gradient (permille) up to which the corresponding row is relevant. The first row specifies the speed (km/h) that you can go in a certain gradient if your train has at least the specified brake percentage (Bremshundertstel, BrH). (If there is no number, a train can't go that speed in this gradient at all.) Your examples: In a gradient of 1.1 percent (11 permille, use row "12", because 11 is at least as high as 10 but not as high as 12) a train with a brake percentage of BrH 66 can go 90 km/h (because 66 is at least as high as 62 but lower than 69). In a gradient of 2.5 percent (25 permille, use row "25") a train with a brake percentage of BrH 66 can go 75 km/h (because 66 is at least as high as 61 but lower than 67). 2) Ruling Gradient The ruling gradient doesn't stay the same throughout the whole route, but needs to be calculated for every section of track separately. The results of these calculations end up in a Fahrplan stating the specific speed limits due to BrH and gradients for specific sections of track. You can check our aforementioned tool to see examples. 3) Freight Train Max Speed Always keep in mind that freight trains in Germany can never go faster than 120 km/h according to federal law (§ 40 Abs. 2 Nr. 2 EBO), regardless of brake percentage, PZB class, gradient or whatever, even when running under LZB, unless they have a special permit issued by the Federal Railway Authority (Eisenbahnbundesamt).
This is one thing I want reflected on the HUD. Be it the max speed of the locomotive, wagons or service, this should be shown on the HUD as the limit rather than what the line speed is at the time. I’d rather not do all sorts of equations to work out what realistic PZB mode I should be using each service. I’m not that great at maths to begin with I think the only DLC that has shown service speed limits at the max speed on the HUD is TSG’s G6. I’d love to see this become the standard.
The game should give you all the relevant info as that's what happens in real life (Shall I mention Zusi again?). A driver is given their timetable with max speeds, brake percentages, PZB mode, etc. They don't do this stuff themselves. The problem is that for this to happen, someone at DTG would need to understand the equations and laws/regulations. Somehow, I don't see any DTG employee getting paid to invest the same amount of time into this as we on the forums did happening
First I am sorry tygerways#2596 and OpenMinded, I didn't know you are the original source of the tables. Second: now I know what I did wrong. I thought that the top row is the BrH and where the per melli row and the BrH column meet that is the speed limit. Now it is clear and this way it makes sense. Third: ruling gradient - I will dig deeper with that later and probably more questions will follow - if you don't mind. Thanks for the clarification.
The good thing is that if all these infos were provided on the HUD probably most of us wouldn't bother to understand the physics and math behind the speed limits. This way I can learn a lot.
Just to clarify and not to take false credit for other people's achievements: I built the algorithm to do the calculations in our tool, but I am not the original source of the published tables. Yeah, I feel the same and appreciate you're digging deeper.
I actually like the fact that the virtual driver, just like the real driver, cannot rely on the posted speed limit and must know what his limit is. (this applies to UK freight as well, although the headcode system is much easier to use!)
So I checked the ruling gradient thread. Seems it is not applicable in the game properly as way too many info is missing?
I am sure that has already been posted elsewhere but could you send me a link to the headcodes please?
For heavy trains with brakes in G mode and PZB U (1000 Hz <55 km/h) the max speed is <105 km/h (effectively 100 km/h) For "normal" freight trains in brake mode P or P/G mixed, PZB mode M (1000 Hz <70 km/h) the max speed is <125 km/h (effectively 120 km/h) For high speed freight trains in PZB mode O (1000 Hz <85 km/h) it is <165 km/h (160 km/h) The dispatcher might impose lower speed limits on the train. Effectively you're staying 5 km/h below the limits to have enough reaction time for gradient changes. pterocles#7018 It's spelt "Freight" not "Fright". When reading "fright train" I think of those scary Half Life 2 trains... A fright train...
We can only use some kind of an educated guess here, based on the "current gradient" data the game gives us, the gradient profile shown on the pause screen and what you can get out of sources published on RL route information systems like DB Netz AG's Infrastrukturregister. That's what OpenMinded did to make the Fahrpläne in our tool. And obviously after taking into account all the parameters that limit your maximum allowed speed in a given situation like - track limit (line speed, civil speed) - signals - safety systems (e.g. PZB, see the post before) - max authorized speed for vehicles (loco and every car, maybe depending on load and track quality) - gradient / denotations in the Fahrplan/EBuLA - law it is always the LOWEST maximum speed that takes effect. To my knowledge, of all the parameters mentioned above, the game only uses the track limit to determine if you get docked for speeding or not (red line in the pause screen). Signal indications are only enforced if you run a signal at danger. Violating the speed limits given by safety systems might result in the system reacting (e.g. applying a penalty brake). Violating any of the other restrictions will be, to my knowledge, of no consequence in the game and adhering to it is mere roleplay and is done to make things feel a bit more realistic.
Headcodes are for example purposes only. Class 4 (4S99) = 75 MPH. Class 6 (6S99) = 60 MPH. Class 7 (7S99) = 45 MPH. Class 8 (8S99) = 35 MPH. Class 9 (9S99) = 25 MPH - rarely used for freight these days but tends to be applied to high priority Express passenger services rather than Class 1.
Not really relevant in this thread since we're all clued in but just wanted to emphasise that this is beyond simplified and not what this thread is about.
I really feel in the service description DTG should be telling us the relevent PZB mode and brake settings.
Furthermore it depends on what type of train you are running Sggmrss set max speed 110-120 kmh both unloaded and loaded. Although you can push this to 125 kmh with DB Baureihe 155 on Max taps traction force 130% downhill from Weißig-Böhla fast Line Junction to Chemical plant with Sggmrss did that time to time
Sadly as I dont have MS excel Im unable to use it. As my open office does some very strange things to it, that said Ive been able to gleem enough info to be able to make a rudimentry version solely for my use so thank you
Very welcome. And I can feel you. I started out creating the file in OpenOffice actually, but then changed to Excel for compatibility.
I think they follow the max speed of the loco and the line, whichever is smaller. I’m seriously hoping that with SKW these issues are past us, as they have used a real cargo timetable for the first time.
