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Great Western 1970's Pack Stats Now In Steamdb

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by WonterRail, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The 101 is a pain to drive but is rewarding when you get the hang of it
     
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  2. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I've no idea why I hoped for it to be something not a 101. If it was a 117 or something, yes I'd be interested, but there's nothing here that's interesting to me. Yes, the 52 is being rebuilt but now I'm just not caring. Such a missed opportunity and I too am starting to lose faith in future DLCs.

    I'd like to point out that I really like TSW, but they're setting the precedent that anything set in the 70s, 80s or 90s is going to come with a Class 101 - if that's the case then sorry but I'm not interested in any add-on set in the 70s, 80s or 90s because I hate the 101 (but kinda like it in TS1, I think it's because the brake handle takes a few seconds to leave the lap position in TSW).

    Is there really not going to be any freight? I hope they're going to use NTP and the BR Heavy Freight pack to add those services. Somehow I doubt it though.
     
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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    What happened with SEHS ought to be instructional. DTG, after the outcry surrounding the preview stream, went back and added fences and changed the ballast color-- and props to them for registering customer feedback and responding with such alacrity in the week or so prior to release.

    But then that's the thing: it was only a week or so prior to release, and so they had to do something in a tearing hurry. The route got fences, but there wasn't time to make them the right fences (or put in the right gantries). The ballast became grey- all over; there was no time to implement different ballast colors, which is technically do-able but time-consuming.

    If DTG were to involve the user base earlier in development, then they would have more time to change course, and have less time invested in miscues. SEHS was on the Roadmap going back pretty much to its first iteration. Why could not there have been a livestream of an early dev build back in, say, November? Yes, everything grey and untextured, no sound etc etc. But it would then be unquestionably a work-in-progress, and if the eagle-eyed had back then yelled, "Hey! Where's the fences?" there would have been ample time to do up the proper fence assets.

    Similarly with BR Blue: if DTG had announced by now, or a month ago, that the locos will be a 52 reskin and a 101, then earlier user feedback would have induced them to do one of two things: include a new loco, or change their marketing approach so as to manage customer expectations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  4. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Those packs had some of its stuff rebuilt. The Class 55 was rebuilt, the 105 had its front end modified, I don't think the skinhead 31 was in the game before with the discs on the front (there was a skinhead in the original 31 pack but it didn't have discs). I think the class 37 was changed, too. Can't comment on the diesel electric pack as I've not used it much, if at all. Similarly, can't comment on the class 03 as I've not got the original.

    Here we're getting a rebuilt 52, and a 101 I have no reason to believe will not just be a reskin of the Tees Valley 101.
     
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  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Rewarding" is I think in the eye of the beholder. Mastering PZB is rewarding (it's a PITA, but it makes sense in its weird overcomplicated Teutonic way). Learning - and that means basically memorizing - the NTP route is rewarding. But the 101 is like the F40PH for me: the learning curve goes from "I can't drive this crappy train" to "OK, now I can drive this still-crappy train."
     
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  6. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    This is a really good point and something I've been thinking about in the last few days too in light of the issues with SEHS. I don't understand DTG's mentality of 'we'll not show or talk about the product until its almost ready for release'. I could understand it in pre-TSW2 times when there was no roadmap as doing so would have revealed their secrets, but considering they are now trying to be more transparent and open, it makes no sense.

    Showing us, or at least telling us a but more about what is involved or included in a product i.e. no lower platforms at Ebbsfleet or the locos in this pack would massively help to manage expectations and help create a better product as they have more time to implement feedback. They should show us 'in production' shots far earlier than they currently do. Part of me thinks they don't want to as it's time and hassle for them and they'd rather leave it until it's too late before listening, like they did with SEHS. They left enough time to implement some changes but nowhere near all that are required.
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Except that the time and hassle would mostly be time and hassle for Sam and Natalie, and to a lesser extent Matt, not the dev team.
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There would be nothing wrong with DTG selling BRB as a Livery Pack/Scenario Pack, as an add-on for those who already own the 52 and/or 101.

    In fact, selling liveries and scenarios could be a nice little side earner for DTG- as well as a sales hook for those routes and locos they're attached to. The dev time for a reskin would be two or three man-days, and priced at two or three quid would sell like hotcakes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
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  9. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with the F40PH? It's got nothing extra going for it, other than the non-self lapping brakes - and those really are not that much of a challenge.
     
  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Are we sure the DB BR 101 is what we think it is, German train fans might be in for a shock?!

    The class 101 is fun to drive and probably one of the most interesting trains to drive in the sim.
     
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  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have those packs and they were decent. I use the class 416 a lot, it has decent sounds. The 105 is a nice thing especially with the AP sound pack. I hoped we would see more of them.

    I don't mind reskins if they are accurate to the route, it's just the incorrect DMU which bothers me.
     
  12. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Both the Deltic and nose ped in the BR Blue Pack were just the Kuju models, with little to no change other than some new textures.
     
  13. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    If you want to sell reskins, don't make a livery editor.

    If the locos weren't tied to the routes they wouldn't even need the two 101s we currently have. I still think there might be more to the pack than the locos in it, and the timetable promises to be interesting but if the route still looks the same and the stations still have PIS etc it will be more than a little disappointing.
     
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  14. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    The livery editor is hardly useful for the creation of accurate reskins, and as there's no ability to edit models or add child objects it makes 'proper' reskinning impossible for most liveries too.
     
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  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine there would be another loco, a class 52 and 101 wouldn't make for much variety. I always wondered if a Hymek might appear. I still wouldn't be purchasing it though.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It accelerates like a slug in molasses, and that combined with the wonky brakes makes it a very poor choice for its role in PC, as a commuter train. That job calls for something like a 422, that starts and stops like a jackrabbit.
     
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  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    A) many people like using reskins but don't like to make them themselves.
    B) the Livery Editor simply cannot do things as well as DTG's dev tools. Believe me, I've pushed it to its limits and simply cannot make the rolling stock the way I envision it, or up to DTG rolling stock's level of detail.
     
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  18. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I will concede on the Deltic - I could've sworn the kuju one is taller - seems not.

    And I've no idea what a nose ped is.
     
  19. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Deltic was the IHH one?
     
  20. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    The only way this pack would interest me is being able to split it into its component parts. Not get a suggested list of set trains to choose from, but be able to use the coaches from this pack with anything loco I own.
     
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  21. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but it is prototypical for the route and pretty well matches the real performance. I do enjoy driving the beast myself. To each their own as they say.
     
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  22. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I am saying reskins as in just paint-jobs. Yes if they add a camera on the side or change the headlight cluster that is not a reskin its a slightly different model. There is a livery manager so you can import other people's livery creations on PC. https://github.com/RagingLightning/TSW2-Livery-Manager/releases

    As we have seen there are many very nice liveries being made by very talented people e.g. https://mods.trainsimcommunity.com/mods/c3-train-sim-world-2/c16-reskins so DTG can concentrate on making new models and varients of models rather than issuing new liveries for old models - they can do the things we cannot.
     
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  23. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping we'll see a set of Mk2e/f coaches in this pack.

    mk2f.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
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  24. burgerpommes#7421

    burgerpommes#7421 New Member

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    just wailt till it is announced and preview propperly
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If DTG can open a new revenue stream for little time invested, it would help with all the other problems people complain about here, almost all of which ultimately boil down to limited resources.
     
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Would it upset the Germans if I was to point out that the British 101 comes with not one but two cab cars?
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It also comes with the BR version of AFB: it can't go above 50.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  28. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    Multiple Unit is not equal to a cab car/driving trailer, be quite difficult to drive a multiple unit without a cab I'd say, though it would be quite amusing to see a British Rail 101 with the cab ends cut off. I'm picturing the passengers having to do something similar to the cavemen in wacky races...
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
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  29. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I think a Deltic would had been more interesting than another 101, but well, for 13€ we can´t ask for miracles.

    Cheers
     
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's difficult to imagine the ECML in the 70s without Deltics. But the GW? I don't think they were ever there.
     
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  31. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Maybe apart from railtours or if BR were really desperate, Deltics never ventured far from the ECML - certainly would never go on the GWML under BR at least.
     
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  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    A Deltic would work on NTP if you wound the clock back a couple of years. They did work some Newcastle to Liverpool services in the last year or so of their working life after being displaced by HST's.
     
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  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Lol. The 101 is a quirky little train. Maybe a little crap as well
     
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Maybe that would make them much more transparent and they would have more time to add the proper assets instead of waiting after release to add the proper assets or resolve other issues
     
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  35. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I can only imagine having your local trains go from ancient slam door stock to Electrostars, Turbostars and Desiros, as was the case in the south of England.
     
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  36. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to fully pass comment on the quality of this pack until we fully know what it entails. So far we only have what’s been mentioned on the roadmap and streams, plus a big wall of text taken from Steam. I want to see it in action before making my mind up.

    I feel there’s more to it than meets the eye, I can’t imagine they’d stick some 70 BR stock onto the GWE route and call it a day. I’m hoping the new timetable functionality changes the time period of a route.

    There’s also the matter of pricing, this is a bit different to the average loco pack. I imagine it being priced somewhere in the middle, more than a single loco but less than a full route. Whether this will be justified or not again depends on what this pack will do and the services it offers.

    As much as I love driving the 101, I would’ve preferred them to add another DMU instead. A single car unit would’ve added a bit more variety to the BR stock.
     
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  37. ionutmineadaniel

    ionutmineadaniel Well-Known Member

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    I hope at least they will include some br blue mk1s with this dlc
     
  38. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Remember the old Dovetail games rhyme:

    "If you're wanting something new clap your hands
    If you're wanting something new clap your hands
    If you're wanting something new clap your hands
    If you're wanting something new and you really want them to put in lots of effort you might be having a laugh!"

    It was a hit single.
     
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  39. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    loco addons dont do well, they dont do route add ons. an add on for an addon for an addon would never work!
     
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  40. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE=" But the 101 is like the F40PH for me: the learning curve goes from "I can't drive this crappy train" to "OK, now I can drive this still-crappy train."[/QUOTE]

    I think the 101 would be fun to drive with your actual hands on the knobs trying to get it work. Swearing at the console/keyboard controls is a different experience?
     
  41. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I think the 101 would be fun to drive with your actual hands on the knobs trying to get it work. Swearing at the console/keyboard controls is a different experience?[/QUOTE]

    i thoroughly enjoy driving the 101 and really didn’t find the keyboard controls that difficult, but this would be a perfect DLC for Raildriver support.
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I've never been in a electrostar since I live in the U.S but they definitely seem better than a 101
     
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  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They probably would make even less cash if they did that
     
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that song could be a hit single for this loco DLC pack since it appears no new trains will come with this pack
     
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  45. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    I think that this is a communication error on DTG's part. This pack was likely always intended to be about the introduction of new gameplay with a new timetable for GWE - a 70s timetable - rather than new locos. (Whether the locos are right for the time era they are trying to reproduce is a whole different story).

    Either way they didn't do themselves any favours by not putting the locos that would come with this gameplay pack on the roadmap.
     
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well they are "better" as they are much more modern and more efficient. The class 101 was of its time, don't forget there are over 40 years between the two designs, it would be like comparing a 1950's Ford to a Ford from the 2000's.

    Personally I would rather ride in a class 101 but I am a nostalgic fool ;), you do get a better view in a class 101, whereas modern UK trains seem designed to make you concentrate on what is on your ipad (other devices are available) rather than viewing the scenery!
     
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  47. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    It's worth remembering that no 101s were replaced by electrostars, turbostars and desiros - not directly anyway. Turbostars mainly just displaced sprinters and pacers to more local services. It was these that replaced the bulk of trains in the class 101-130 range.
    Electrostars* and Desiros replaced the BR Southern Electrics (classes 411, 412, 421, 423 and probably some others introduced in the 1950s and 60s).
    * except the Class 357, which replaced the likes of the 310 and 312, both of which were introduced in the 70s.

    In terms of the GWML out of Paddington, the 165 and 166 "Networker Turbos" replaced basically everything that wasn't a HST or a freight train. Trains of the same family (class 465, 466 and 365) replaced the commuter trains on South Eastern.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The last class 101's were taken out of service in 2004 at around 46 years old and the last two bubble cars only a couple of years ago at around 57 year old I think. I wonder how many of the modern multiple units will see that length of service?!
     
  49. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    The electrostars are over 20 years old now (or at least some of them) and still going strong. :)
     
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  50. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    175s replaced the last 101s on the North Wales Coast as late as 2000, and Coradia is of a comparable age to Turbostar/Electrostar.
     
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