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Great Western 1970's Pack Stats Now In Steamdb

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by WonterRail, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    If they're not changing the route to appear from the same era then is this going to be a glorified "rail tour" dlc?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Some were named. If I recall the ones which weren't named couldn't be named as the names are copywrite by the various preservation societies. I would rather they had missed those out rather than included unnamed ones.
     
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  3. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    Other option would have been to ask for permission its not like there are hundreds of preserved class 52s and I'm pretty sure the preserved railways would like the added publicity of their locos being in the game.
     
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  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It seems odd to have some named preserved ones and some unnamed, so maybe they did. Don't forget these engines are often owned by groups or individuals not necessarily by the railways themselves. Personally I can't see why an individual would not want their engine depicted in the simulator but that is the only explanation I can think of. DTG make some baffling decisions sometimes but having a famous class of locomotive known for their names, appearing in the sim unnamed would be very odd..
     
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  5. ade4472

    ade4472 Member

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    Prototype HST 41001 falls in the 70’s wouldn’t need much tweaking
     
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  6. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    It'd need a near-entirely new powercar external model and cab, and big modifications to the Mk3 models. It'd be lovely to see but it's probably a bit niche for now, and there's the challenge of sounds...
     
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  7. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the Kuju 455 would fit the bill. Seems to get used for everything else
     
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  8. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Kuju made a 455?
     
  9. ionutmineadaniel

    ionutmineadaniel Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they made one there are only 455s one made by Dovetail and the other by Thomson Interactive
     
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  10. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought. I think there's 2 by DTG - the standalone 455/8 and the one included with PDE which has a slightly updated model (I think the modifications, however, go as far as changing the headlights and adding a gangway)
     
  11. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    On the latest roadmap they have seemingly changed the name to: GGF-E5 01 - Diesel Legends of the Great Western.

    Interesting
     
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  12. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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  13. ionutmineadaniel

    ionutmineadaniel Well-Known Member

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  14. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am waiting with bated breath!

    Indeed
     
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  15. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    boy do I have some news for you
     
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  16. ionutmineadaniel

    ionutmineadaniel Well-Known Member

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    What news the article wasn't posted yet
     
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  17. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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  18. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame that this pack doesn't have a more fitting DMU of the era... Another lost opportunity...
     
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  19. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Meh, will be giving this a miss, quite a pointless release
     
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  20. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    still OHLE IN 1970 LMAO
     
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  21. jsimpsx

    jsimpsx New Member

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    Didnt know they had OHLES in the 1970s
     
  22. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    Also, gimme 1 reason, except for utter lazyness, for you guys to include the br101, it was more of an exception to see it on the route back in the day than common practise. Like WHY?!
     
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  23. jsimpsx

    jsimpsx New Member

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  24. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    It didn't. The OHLE was put up in the 90s I think. Here's an image of Paddington from 1988: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/19880131-Paddington-HST-253035.jpg

    Perhaps wasn't possible to do a 117? Just a guess and doesn't detract from the disappointment for me.

    You can also do it with the scenario planner, also I don't remember the 52 being in all-over blue and hauling mk2s, also GWE's timetable is built for MUs not loco-hauled trains whereas this introduces a different timetable but who am I to argue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  25. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Of course it's possible. It's just a case of effort vs reward. They've gone for the low effort and probably low reward approach.
     
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  26. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    hcs8r7ebmbs31.png
     
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  27. Wilfboy

    Wilfboy Active Member

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    Throw in a 125 in BR livery and I might be interested. Wouldn’t take much to do.
     
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  28. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

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    I don't have a PC and I did post in the PS4 section before...so I won't just copy and paste it to here.

    No offence, but I don't get where they were going with this. You have 70s era locos which don't run on the modern-day route. Not only that, but all 3 of them have all been released before. The 101 has now appeared in 3 DLC's, the 08 in 3 (I think) and the 52 in 2. OK, the 52 is a repaint and it doesn't look bad...but why isn't there just one new addition? That at least happened in the Heavy Freight pack with the Class 40.

    In my opinion, if they want to follow on from this, they need to do one of 4 things:
    A. Make sure the route is appropriate for what they're releasing, give us at least one totally new thing and make sure it's worth the money. Ideally, give us new stuff only.

    B. Don't try this again cos it hasn't gone down well and I don't think it's gonna sell well. Stick to the DLC loco system where it made sense.

    C. Release locos that aren't specific to any route if the rules of time period don't matter and allow people to build up their collections as they see fit. Don't make it for one specific route. Make it geared towards scenario planner where you can forego the rules of what goes where. Sounds like a good way to bolster that feature. What's the point releasing something specific to GWE if it doesn't make any sense?

    Also...where's the 70s HST at? Doesn't that make more sense than throwing in another 101? If they had that, they may have been onto a winner, despite the anachronism.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the reception for this pack on the forums was positive at all. It seems pointless to purchase. This was a experiment that failed before it even started
     
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  30. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

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    I think it can be summed up with two main problems that sunk it.

    1. 3 locos we've already had, not a single new one

    2. Making it for GWE and not making a 70s rendition of GWE to go with it

    What runs on GWE today? They could've packaged those in if they weren't going to change the route to fit.
     
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  31. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I guess the best thing about this pack would be the Mk1 coaches in BR Blue/Gray livery. No mention of any freight wagons though.

    I'll probably wait for a good discount before even considering buying this.
     
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  32. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Except that it hasn’t failed yet and I suspect, while it won’t be a top seller, it also won’t fail. As Sam said on the stream, it’s not going to be for those of us on the forums. There are a lot of people that don’t have all the DLCs and are far more casual players. If the price is right, it might be appealing.

    Personally I’m not that excited by it, but if all 3 trains have raildriver support and there are a good amount of scenarios and services, then I might still consider it.
     
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  33. ionutmineadaniel

    ionutmineadaniel Well-Known Member

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    Theres just one type of mk 1 the same one from NTP
     
  34. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I had to raise a Vulcan-style eyebrow yesterday watching the roadmap stream, Sam acknowledged the feedback from this thread and seemed to be coercively suggesting that if the pack wasn't a success they wouldn't do another!
    As for the inappropriate stock, many a time I have run untypical stock not seen on a particular route in QD for TS, however, criticism being leveled at the 101's use in this instance is fair.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well they have one in TS1 and there are drawings and diagrams on the Railcar Association site so if they can make a class 313/314 from scratch I have no reason to believe they couldn't make a class 117.

    It probably won't bother many people, it is just a DMU and they all looked the same, apparently, I would have loved to have seen the reaction if they had supplied the class 40 and not a class 52! However as someone who is an enthusiast of the period I want to be able to recreate as realistic as possible an operation, so it does bother me.

    They could at least have supplied the class 101 as a three car set in the correct blue livery of the period which have slightly lifted the realism levels from zero!
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Even that isn't accurate, what about buffet vehicles, do they think passengers from Penzance and Swansea didn't have catering facilities. What about other mark 2 variants!
     
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  37. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Some new Mk1 variants would've been far more appropriate than full rakes of PV Mk2s with BGs, many WR expresses past withdrawal of the Westerns were still mostly formed of Mk1s, with aircon Mk2s replacing as available/constructed.
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Hardly "coercive" to say that if someone things a commercial success then they won't try the same again.
    You don't have to buy ANYTHING if you don't want to
     
  39. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Really? Seemed that way to me. Especially when referring to the negative feedback about the pack.
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Why? They can easily put out DLC in a different way rather than as a backdated loco pack for a modern route. They didn't suggest removing anything or never making anything again
     
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  41. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Once again, it seemed that way to me.
     
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  42. steve1023

    steve1023 New Member

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    Another reason not to buy TSW2 for me. Lazy. As others have said, 117 would have been more appropriate, 101 would have been blue and 3 car, not blue/grey recycled 2 car. News section says early 70s which would be pre-TOPs but 08s showing TOPs numbering.

    I thought it was my old Windows 7 computer that made the Mk2 coaches look washed out compared to the loco's on NTP, but apparently not judging by the top screenshot. Disappointing even borderline rubbish.
     
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  43. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Without getting into a debate, this is spot on.

    There’s been enough negativity on here about this pack to me to suggest, well who’s going to actually buy it then?!

    If no one buys it, or it’s one of the poorest sellers, then it’s a case of message received by DTG, as Sam alluded to.

    Personally, the pack isn’t for me, I like Modern UK DLC or German DLC. So SEHS, and München-Augsburg and the future Cathcart Circle, are all no-brainer purchases for me.

    I don’t like the attitude, don’t like it, then don’t buy it. I don’t think that’s fair. I don’t want to see DTG fail either, they represent a very niche market, if we didn’t have them, we wouldn’t have a hobby, and I’d be lost without that to be honest, even though my job is on the railway, it actually still provides some escapism!

    But if this DLC, is that bad, unimaginative or lazy (a favourite buzzword on here) then vote with your wallet, I actually think it was extremely good intentions by DTG making this pack, and there a lot of people that love DLC from this era.

    The problem you have, there will a large majority who will be negative about it and still buy it.

    A lot of people who’ll buy it, because like Sam/Adam said on the stream they like to own every DLC

    And people who will buy it because they genuinely want it.

    It was similar with SEHS, again a lot of negativity on the forums, which I think DTG did really well in addressing nearly everything so far (still a few things to be ironed out) it’s one of my favourite DLC’s anyway.

    But you have the same problem;

    There are people who saw the very first stream, were extremely negative and still pre-ordered/bought it.

    There are people who saw the second stream, even with the fixes and were still extremely negative but still pre-ordered/bought it.

    And again for third stream with the patch that was shown on the Xbox, again people still bought it

    Similar, there are people who will watch the 465 stream, still complain about the route (and I’m not saying the criticism isn’t unjustified in places) but they will still buy the 465 and the route!

    So, in DTG eyes, well SEHS has been a success then on purchases alone, so you can’t help but feel why there is confusion at times, because people will still buy the DLC.

    And it will be the same for this pack, in theory reading this thread, you’d think well hardly anyone is going to buy this, I can guarantee, this will still be a decent seller, so for DTG will it be a case of message received then? ie: we’ve seen the feedback on the forums, we’ve seen the sales figures, yes it was failed experiment. I can assure you there will be very little correlation between the negative feedback on here and the sales figures.
     
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  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think this is oversimplistic, and given that Matt and Sam have spoken about usage and so on, and also having an in house statistician (who is on or soon to be back from maternity leave) I think they have it in hand that they know how many people BUY the DLC, but also how much they use them, what for, and whether they revisit them down the line

    Initial surge sales may well be one indicator of whether a DLC is successful, but so is social media hits, usage times, revisits etc and we don't have those figures

    Either way, DTG are known for churning out DLC and maybe not meeting the expectation of the consumer. Google "DTG flywheel"
    I'm sure we all have our wants (and some have more aggressive ways of stating them) but we are NOT the DTG management so we either wait and maybe get some things we half want, or we can moan and whine til the cows come home.
     
  45. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    This is the problem though, I love the concept, well I have come to love the concept and anything 1970's is a no brainer for me but they have made a basic error in providing a completely incorrect and unrepresentative piece of stock. This may muddy the results of this "experiment", if they had provided a class 117, which I know is not as easy as it is a new piece of stock they would probably sell more. If they had provided a class 101 in blue with three cars, I might have convinced myself to buy it as at least it wouldn't look as out of place as a blue/grey two car set with late 80's set numbers does. In fact that error irritates me more now than not including the class 117, this is only because I am passionate about the period. And those who dismiss such views, think about your favourite era and area and imagine how you would react if DTG included the wrong type of rolling stock.

    Many won't care, they are a set of old fashioned blue diesels which they can thrash along at 90 mph but if that is who the pack is aimed at then fine, but maybe market it as such, not as a recreation of what the GWML was in the 70's.
     
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well that has garnered some results in the past including changes to SEHS so maybe that is what we should do more of, something I never thought I would see myself typing :)!
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt though that any changes would be made. Maybe they should've explained in the stream why did they add a train that hardly ran on the route in the 70s and not just make a brand new train especially if they read all the feedback. There were people clearly passoinate about this dlc but some got disappointed afterwards. Could they have made the 117, who knows. Not to mention that the feel of the route won't have a 70s vibe to it which basically means your driving the equivalent of railtour services on this route. The idea they had was good but the execution from dtg was poor which wasn't a total surprise
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe when they do a stream on this specifically they will answer that question.
    Not a surprise indeed
     
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  49. Driconian

    Driconian Member

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    It just feels that so much potential has been wasted. The concept and Idea of providing a massive loco pack that would allow another perspective on a well loved line in TSW is in short brilliant. But this is a heavily watered down version if that, thankfully I never put too much into this but I did really like the idea.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't need to be massive... the equivalent of the diesel or hydraulic pack from TSx would have been good.
    Does leave out the DMUs I spose
     
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