Expansion Great Western Express Extended - London To Swindon

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by pengi#8913, Dec 13, 2023.

  1. pengi#8913

    pengi#8913 Active Member

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    Hello, this is my suggestion for another route extension: Great Western Express Extended. Great Western Express is now over 6 years old, being one of the first DLC released for the game. Since then, the game has recieved many new trains and improvements and that's why I believe that it deserves an extension.

    First of all, the route would be extended from London to Swindon (or possibly Didcot Parkway if that's too long) and be set in early 2019. This section of the Great Western Mainline is 111 km (69 miles) long.

    Stations: London Paddington - Acton Main Line - Ealing Broadway - West Ealing - Hanwell - Southall - Hayes & Harlington - West Drayton - Iver - Langley - Slough - Burnham - Taplow - Maidenhead - Twyford - Reading - Tilehurst - Pangbourne - Goring & Streatley - Cholsey - Didcot Parkway - Swindon

    There are also many branchlines along this route. Branchlines that would be worth adding:
    - Greenford branch, from West Ealing, 4 km (3 miles)
    - Heathrow airport branch, from Hayes & Harlington, 4 km (3 miles)
    - Henley branch, from Twyford, 7.5 km (4.5 miles)

    North pole depot should also be added, as it is the main depot for the Hitachi IETs. It is located very close to Old Oak Common.

    Map of the Great Western Railway:

    [​IMG]

    Map of the Heathrow branch:
    [​IMG]

    Rolling stock:
    GWR Class 800 and 802 "IET"
    [​IMG]
    The Hitachi class 800 and 802s are high speed trains, are named IETs by GWR which stands for "Intercity Express Train". These trains run long distance services on the Great Western Mainline. As the 801 already exists in TSW, these shouldn't be too difficult to make.

    GWR Class 43 HST
    [​IMG]
    The HST is already on the route and would be used for long distance services, although it would be a lot less common as they were being withdrawn and replaced by IETs at this time.

    GWR Class 387/1 "Electrostar"
    [​IMG]
    The class 387 Electrostars were introduced on the GWML in 2016, and run commuter services from London to Didcot Parkway. These could easily be converted from the 387s from the Brighton Mainline.

    GWR Class 165 and 166
    [​IMG]
    The class 165 and 166 "turbo networker" units would run most branchlines on this route. As the 166 already exists in TSW, the 165 and 2-car variants can be made. I'm not sure about these trains' mainline operations.

    TFL Class 345 "Aventra"
    [​IMG]
    The Class 345 are part of the Bombardier "Aventra" family and were built for the Elizabeth line. As the Class 710 Aventra was recently revealed (or at least teased), the 345 would be easier to make. These trains would run between London and Reading as well as the Heathrow branch.

    Heathrow Express Class 387 "Electrostar"
    [​IMG]
    Heathrow Express uses the same 387/1s as GWR. These trains run non-stop services from London Paddington to the Heathrow Airport stations. If licensing is an issue, GWR 387s could be used instead.

    With the amount of trains, branchlines and service types, I think that this route would be a big success for TSW. I believe that it would fit well as one of the main routes for TSW 5 or 6, just like Southeastern Highspeed was done for TSW 3. Thank you for reading :)
     
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  2. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    Heathrow Express won't happen for security reasons (unless it was AI only).

    Not too long at 69 miles, that is just around enough to give the IET and HST a good run.
     
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  3. saxon#1462

    saxon#1462 Active Member

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    Yeeeeeees because of network!!!!!
     
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  4. shredder

    shredder Member

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    I think the original GWE is considered a legacy route now, so won’t be expanded as such.. but a remastered, updated (electrification presumably) and branches added ‘new route’ would be possible.

    Have ‘older’ routes ever been remastered in this way before, in this game or TSC?
     
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  5. d.heal

    d.heal Well-Known Member

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    They probably won't extend gwe as it's a old route now and won't make any gwr loco dlc or routes (modern day) due to licensing as they lost the GWR licensing and probably won't get it back as gwr comes from First group wich owns Southwestern railway that the reason for the fake livery on the 484
     
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  6. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    A change of era is a perfect way to do it. Currently it is set in 2015, but a setting of 1990s with NSE and Intercity stock would work but would be diesel only. If set in the early 1990s we could have a pre Heathrow branch version which would also have the additional station of Westbourne Park just outside Paddington. If it is indeed true that the GWR licence is gone, I see it highly unlikely that we will get a current electrified iteration unless done with a debranded green livery for all GWR stock. A version including all branches is long overdue now but should feature all 6, both passenger and freight. Perhaps even the Basingstoke branch could make it 7. The current version leaves so much out compared to the real route and needs a complete makeover. I would be happy to help with local details relating to the West London part of the line as I am a local resident.
     
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  7. saxon#1462

    saxon#1462 Active Member

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    What about oxford, Gatwick and Penzance?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2023
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  8. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    Oxford could be feasible. Penzance is far too far. Gatwick needs the North Downs Line via Guildford and Redhill which is probably best as a standalone route.
     
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  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Other option is Paddington to Oxford, or add the outer suburban branches to the existing route.

    What we don’t know is what state the uncooked master version of the route is in, if it’s fit to even be worked on let alone extended.
     
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  10. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    In any case, the original GWE is now somewhat pitiful by current standards and a face-lift is the only viable solution, however this might be achieved. Here I go again holding my breath and crossing every extremity of my body.
     
  11. saxon#1462

    saxon#1462 Active Member

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    Green ford, oxford and Swindon?
     
  12. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    it is but the reason is the technology of the route is outdated it would probably be easier to rebuild it

    legacy is just a word for non TSW4 dlc though, not in anyway a total right off.
     
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  13. pengi#8913

    pengi#8913 Active Member

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    That's a shame. There is so much potential for a new Great Western route
     
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  14. pengi#8913

    pengi#8913 Active Member

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    They're all too long, but they could do Gatwick to Reading (although I doubt they would). There are many possibilities with the Great Western network
     
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  15. steve08

    steve08 Active Member

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    I don’t think Oxford is too long if a complete new route was done yes Oxford and Heathrow with the side paths would be good or Paddington to Bristol
     
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  16. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    Any proof ?
     
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  17. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    How about instead heading west from Swindon towards Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa? Include the line down to Westbury for more local services and freight, completing a nice little network. There's the option for the Class 800/802 and the Class 150/158 to be included with layers for the HST and Class 166.

    Upgrading GWE would be great, but part of that reasoning is being able to explore new extensions to that route, so why not spend the time creating something completely new rather than rebuilding a route you are mostly familiar with already.
     
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  18. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    We could have that.
     
  19. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    Having it go to Swindon and include Oxford or Newbury would be a great idea
     
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  20. Migsithepigsi

    Migsithepigsi Active Member

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    What's the security reason...? If there's like a secret passage like between T4 and T12&3 on the picaddilly line then that's reasonable enough for DTG to just miss it otherwise what is it?
     
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  21. Migsithepigsi

    Migsithepigsi Active Member

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    To be honest they could also do with adding the Windsor and Eton central, Marlow, Bourne end and Heathrow branches if they improve GWML
     
  22. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    Not entirely sure, but that's what I've heard others say here.

    I think it may be to do with the station being in the airport itself.
     
  23. Indege

    Indege Well-Known Member

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    The station is landside so security isnt a problem
     
  24. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    The security for Heathrow is more than likely the tunnels/layout, it’s all airport infrastructure. It becomes a map of the place if a route was done.
     
  25. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    Security is precisely the reason the Heathrow branch won't come to TSW.
     
  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I do ponder if “security” is a bit of an urban legend. The tunnel and track layout can be gleaned from Open Street Map and flight simulation, as I’ve remarked before, seems to have no issue representing Heathrow and every other UK airport in accurate detail including radio frequencies for comms and radar including ILS.
     
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  27. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the problem is with the owners of the line. This line is owned by Ferrovial who are the owners of HAL (Heathrow Airport Ltd) and they are notoriously difficult to communicate with. Hence it is difficult to acquire a license from them. This is how I understand the situation (until someone with more insight can update me).
     
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  28. [UK] Alien Baltan

    [UK] Alien Baltan Active Member

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    Not in TSW as far as I know - I believe the upcoming remaster for the WSR route is the first time DTG's gone back to retool an existing route, not counting the extended version of Southeastern High Speed.
     
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  29. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    I understand that and agree but I think it becomes an extra problem if they themselves are providing that information aswell, it mounts up the issue and comes directly from them, they start to take that responsibility.
     
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  30. shredder

    shredder Member

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    Let’s not forget that the Heathrow Branch would have to be simultaneously licensed alongside Heathrow Express (or whoever operates the route nowadays!) and also the rolling stock they use (387’s?).

    No point going to great lengths with airport licensees if you can’t get the TOC’s license in the first place!
     
  31. Migsithepigsi

    Migsithepigsi Active Member

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    That could also then mean the picaddilly line can't become a thing then?
     
  32. Migsithepigsi

    Migsithepigsi Active Member

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    Outer suburban is a must, and just an extension to Swindon and Oxford should do.
     
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  33. finlayl122528

    finlayl122528 Well-Known Member

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    I would much rather have the Elizabeth line. If they were going to charge at least 25 pounds then I would expect a pretty extensive route. I am not interested in this route however I can understand why it could be popular. The stations are very different on the GWE now as a result of the Elizabeth line so it may be a challenge to implement it if you want it set in the current day.
     
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  34. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    Just a disclaimer that I'm only parroting what has been said by others.
     
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  35. finlayl122528

    finlayl122528 Well-Known Member

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    They could remove the Heathrow section if that is likely and terminate the trains at Northfields and Uxbridge going westbound
     
  36. finlayl122528

    finlayl122528 Well-Known Member

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    I am assuming that Open Street View would work however that complicates things for Dovetail. Would this route be possible or would the security issue be a severe problem. I would love the London Underground. I would prefer the Central and District lines however I know this would be the most popular and I admire this route. It would be a great time to create this route before the new rolling stock are implemented however I am unsure whether it may be to big of a challenge. Please can you clarify this to the forums page. Sorry to disturb you. DTG Alex
     
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  37. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t be against a new iteration of GWE but would definitely have to offer something different to the current one, outwith just bringing it to modern day.

    Ideally to Bristol would be great but probably unlikely. Failing that Oxford/ Banbury plus one of the branches such as Henley on Thames would be quite appealing. Would defo need a couple of new trains though atleast the 800 and 345. So would be a pretty big project route, probably only at a new game launch.
     
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  38. pengi#8913

    pengi#8913 Active Member

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    But Gatwick airport worked just fine?
     
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  39. pengi#8913

    pengi#8913 Active Member

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    I wouldn't mind seeing this in TSW 5
     
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  40. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said above
     
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  41. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Well-Known Member

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    GWR have withdrawn the license for TSW, so DTG won't do any GWR related content.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2024
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  42. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    You have any proof of that
     
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  43. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Well-Known Member

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  44. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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  45. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    This debate goes round and round with no clear answers as to its validity.
     
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  46. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Well-Known Member

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    There's no proof they have and no proof they don't. :)
     
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  47. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    For the era you are suggesting the class 360/2’s can be added as they were withdrawn in 2020
     
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  48. 14trainfan2029

    14trainfan2029 Active Member

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    I wouldn't see this route being recreated on TSW as all the stations are now Elizabeth Line. I think if they were to do that, they would have to speek to TFL in order to do it.
     
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  49. 14trainfan2029

    14trainfan2029 Active Member

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    I used to love going on the 360/2 Heathrow Connect, I wish they could be added, but they are withdrawn which is sad
     
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  50. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    Along with the Class 165/1 and Class 180 dmus, the Class 360/2 was actually in service at the time the original route is set and a perfect type to add as dlc. This is another thing that would be vastly beneficial to players because GWE has never received a single locomotive dlc that is period accurate.
     
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