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Xbox Hauptstrecke Rhein Ruhr: Wrong Signalling/speed Limit Possibly Routing Near Essen.

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by federicodiliberto2001, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    First, I haven't played too many services so I'm not 100% certain of this, but I think this bug affects all fast services coming from Bochum (the ones that uses the north track).

    The problem arises during the approach to Essen Hbf, about 1.5 km out a signal gives you a speed restriction of 100 km/h but then you go over some junction and curves where 100 km/h seems way too high and I wondered why didn't the signals give me a 60 or 40 km/h restriction and now I might know why, but I'll get to that at the end, I'm here to report a bug not to tell the devs how to fix it, that's their job.



    In this video you can see the two signals giving me the 100 km/h speed restriction and then me going over the junctions near Essen, where it seemed like I went way too fast.

    Now, huge thanks to forum user Lamplight for showing me a screenshot of a railway map of the area, granted that might not be the best source but what else do we have?... and it showed that all those junctions have a speed limit of 60.

    I actually went and downloaded that app myself to recreate the that little part of my trip but when I closely watched the video I linked above I noticed that I changed track to go onto a parallel track and then I was routed back my "original" track.
    Let me show you:

    Screenshot_20201010-224445_Railmap.jpg

    The red path is what I followed, while the black dotted path is where you would think I would go, there is no need to get to the parallel track and then back to my original track.

    Here a picture of the same area without my beautiful art on top of it. Screenshot_20201010-224456_Railmap.jpg

    Now, if we assume the routing is correct then the bug would simply be the lack of a 60 km/h speed restriction on that particular blue piece of track.

    Screenshot_20201010-225901_YouTube.jpg
    That means that this signal should show a 60 km/h speed restriction (so you should see a 6 on the little triangle above the signal and not a 10 - 100 km/h), same for the relative distant signal.

    But I can't get out of my head the idea that the game actually doesn't want me to go through that junction it just wants to let me follow my track along at 100 km/h and the bug might be in the routing itself.

    As usual let me know if you can reproduce this, and if possible would you kindly show some clips of you guys approaching Essen? I'm very curious about all this. And as usual if someone can reproduce it I'll make sure to send it as a ticket.

    Also is it a preserved bug? I never played this route on TSW2020.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  2. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I tried recreating this in TSW 2020 and it seems to be either pathing error or speed restriction error based on service.
    I tried the 12:00 RE11 Bochum-Duisburg driving a Br 425. I had the same speed restrictions but without using the switches; basically the more sensible pathing that doesn‘t require slowing down. I stayed on the main track the entire time. At the very last second, I do use a switch in this service since I‘m stopping at a different platform. Therefore, this service should get a speed reduction to 60 as well.
    So the Br 425 services seem to have a speed restriction error while the Dosto + Br 146 services seem to suffer from a pathing error.
    Did this in TSW 2020 on PS4. I‘m not going to try it out on TSW 2 tonight. Perhaps someone else could check whether it occurs the same way in 2?
     
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  3. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I thought about it for a while, and once I even lingered in some other topic - in my opinion, TSW does not take into consideration the limitations of driving through junctions. I don't know if it will describe my point of view well: it looks as if it was displaying data until the track change as if we were going to "go straight". This also applies to signals, including magnets. In this particular case, it warns you against "100", and more precisely against such a restriction on the indicator that you pass shortly before the turnout.
    This restriction applies to drive straight ahead - this one on the HUD.
    This is my theory. Same on PC.
    UPDATE
    I don't know English and it's hard for me to explain such intricacies with just google :D
    As I read what I wrote, I do not understand myself, even translating back into Polish :D :D
    It's by the way...
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  4. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    From what I saw the speed limit for the HUD are applied to pieces of track, for example in the Köln-aachen if you notice the 80 speed limit starts as soon as you get in the parallel track, so I think they just forgot to add 60 to that particular piece of track
     
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  5. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    So it's a preserved bug... what a shame this means it's not getting fixed anytime soon
     
  6. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    SKA is better, but still like I said. Leaving Koln is 70-60-80. 60 is for the track changing and it IS NOT on the HUD. I did a thred about excactly that case :)

    PS Once again I emphasize, this is just a theory - junctions in TSW are, in a sense, "invisible".
    ... or at least problematic in the discussed context :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  7. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It would appear so.
     
  8. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    A lot of „signal based“ speed restrictions are not enforced by the game. If you recall leaving Hagen towards Boele in freight trains, you‘re only allowed 40 km/h based on signals until you reach 50 shortly before Boele. But the game allows 60 the entire time. That‘s just one example.
    But this case is slightly different as not even the signals are correct.
     
  9. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But by a strange coincidence, we're passing through the junction here. And there is a problem. This is what I wanted to suggest. Almost every thread of this type of dispute has this element: junction :) -> where we change the track
     
  10. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    In fact the problem is not the HUD but the signal itself giving the 100kph restriction. Honestly the only reason I had that part of the HUD open was because the In-Cab screens were bugged
     
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  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That‘s exactly what I meant by this:
     
  12. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    So there is actually 100 or 60 allowed? IRL
     
  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    If the map is correct then 60.
     
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  14. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    While trying to gather more info to sumbit a ticket I noticed while approaching Essen from Duigsburg (with the RB33 service which terminates there) that I got the correct speed restriction for the track I had to follow.

    https://gameclips.io/FD1003/1a6a48e6-aff3-4d79-91eb-11a491e37acc

    Notice the green and yellow signal imposing a 40 km/h speed restriction before entering that area followed by the 60 and the 40 km/h limit on their specific pieces of tracks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  15. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    So that would mean 2 things:
    1. DTG is aware of these switches having a speed limit of 60.
    2. The false pathing/speed restrictions only affect trains coming from Bochum.
    Maybe someone just forgot to add the speed restrictions coming from Bochum (wouldn‘t explain the weird pathing but I‘m just guessing anyway)?
     
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  16. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... probabily a bit of both, maybe they didn't think those switches would actually be used so they didn't bother limiting them to 60
     
  17. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That would make sense. At least for the pointless switches for the Dostos. The one not-pointless switch for the Br 425 was then probably just genuinely forgotten.
     
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  18. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    I think this will be my last messagge here since I think this bug is only bothering me and I don't think it deserves that top spot in technical problems, but I'll keep editing this post adding all new info I'm gathering and at the end it will be used as a base for a ticket.

    This morning I tried the RE11 services with the BR425 and they are fine, they go over a juction listed as unknown speed limit when coming from Bochum (fast) so I'm not going to complain for that, but it seems similar in construction to the 60 ones, but as I said it's ok for me.
    Their path:
    20201012_121017.jpg

    Then the interesting thing is the S3 services coming from Essen Steele-Ost (so you join the slow line coming from Bochum), you go over a 80 speed restricted junction but is again ignored

    Their path Screenshot_20201012-125322_Railmap.jpg
    The S3 coming from the other direction is fine.

    Both the two CabCar lines RE1 and RE6 should have the same routing as they both arrive at Essen platform 2 (so the same problem as the first post above).

    As I expected the S1 services coming from Bochum have the same path (and therefore issues as the S3 services) https://gameclips.io/FD1003/396475c4-5ae5-4a54-aefc-aa76e680bf52

    Ok, so ignoring any possible routing issues the problem is in this two pieces of track

    1.
    20201012_182435.png
    This piece here doesn't have a 60 km/h speed limit, is locates just outside Essen (going towards Bochum) a few meters after milepost 0.8 (coming from Bochum)

    2.
    20201012_183150.png
    This piece of track is missing an 80 km/h speed limit, this piece of track is located just outside Essen before milepost 0.6 (coming from Bochum).

    As a result of those two speed limit missing, we get a speed restriction of 100 km/h when approaching the station, which is inaccurate as those juctions have a rispettive limit of 60 and 80 km/h assuming my source (that railway app) is correct.

    The affected services are:

    S1 and S3 (coming from Essen Steele-Ost and Bochum respectively), they incour junction n.2 and should receive an 80 km/h speed restriction by the signal before that area (and the respective distant signal). - BR422

    RE1 and RE6 (coming from Bochum), they incur junction n.1 and should receive a 60 km/h speed restriction by the signal before that area (and respective distant signal) - BR146/143 + DoSto
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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  19. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I think once the preserved collection is finally ported over, one of the first tasks should be going over the route making sure all the appropriate speed limits etc are in place for each line and possible pathways. The speed limits are one of those things that should be correct in the game and corrected if not.
     
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  20. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    As I did with the BR185 AFB I'm trying my best to gather as much data as possible to pinpoint the problem and allow the dev team to more quickly and efficiently asses the specific issue, I'm doing my best let's see what they'll do once I send the ticket.


    Condensed all the info with what should be relevant to them and sent the ticket. I'll edit this comment as soon as they get back to me
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  21. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for all your effort. It may not be a game breaking bug but I appreciate you pointing this out and all of your work towards getting to the bottom of it.:)
     
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