Forums are pretty old school these days and while they're great for general discussions on different topics, they really aren't a great way to gather and organise community ideas for improvements and new features because threads are organised by date by default and the "Like" is not a very obvious feature to use as a way to add a vote to an idea. The problem I see is lots and lots of people suggesting the same thing over and over and threads getting lost in a sea of ideas. It must be hard work for DTG to collate everyone's thoughts. I much prefer a system like UserVoice, where ideas can be voted on, and the highest voted ideas sit at the top of the list. The admins can also mark items as being worked on or released or being considered etc. It's just a much neater system. There are other similar systems too, and pretty much all of them are better than a forum.
This is my problem with such things. There should be NO indication of what other people have voted on from the user side as this caused two effects. It can cause a bias of someone voting where they essentially limit themselves to options which they feel have a chance of "winning" so anything outside of the top few find their votes not being cast appropriately Or it can cause people to not vote at all for similar reasons, they think they know what will "win" so don't bother adding their votes. A much better and less biased system would list the items in a random order with no reflection whatsoever as to what's happened until the vote is CLOSED
Agreed. I think it also results in some snowballing effects because the most voted suggestions also get the best spot for more attention, gathering even more votes than suggestions further down the list. I don't see why votes even neer to be closed. Basically, this is not our problem. Sounds a bit rude, but DTG chose the current system and I guess that if it wouldn't work well for them, they'd switch to another system. The biggest advantage of the current system is the ability to comment on each others suggestions, telling them why you like or dislike a certain suggestion, which may provide very useful information to DTG. Personally I think it works well enough for us as community. It's not up to us to decide how well the current system works for DTG.
DTG have development cycles, they've said so themselves, so a few votes with actual outcomes within that cycle measn that they can gather community response. If they were never ending then there's no result so nobody gains anything from it At least if we knew whatever won the vote by (say) 1st April WILL be made and released in (say) November (or for xmas) that would be a boon for some
Whatever doesn't make it this development cycle could be carried over for next development cycle. The only reason to close a suggestion would be if the suggested route would actually be developed (and thus there's no point in suggesting it anymore). That is, for a UserVoice-alike system.
Well I think one thing that might help some of the more outrageous suggestions that will never get built (like my desire for Yugoslavian narrow gauge or Blackpool Tramway in the 70's) is an indication from DTG as to what might be seen as a viable project. For routes that includes length, complexity, known licensing issues (BNSF etc.), re-playability - i.e. one train every two days like Cane Creek or so frequent it will break timetable mode. Ease of doing research whether remotely or by a site visit (current Covid restrictions aside). That might streamline the ideas a wee bit. Anything that doesn't fit that category could be moderated out or even, like the Suggestions Boxcar over at the N3V forum, initial posts are pre-moderated by the admin before appearing so only worthwhile ideas get a public airing.
Then how would you ever get parity? If the vote never closes then you don't know what's popular now, as opposed to what was popular three years ago. Doesn't make much sense to me
That's silly because the whole point of this suggestions forum is to let DTG know what kind of stuff we want to see. If they already have decided what to make, they wouldn't need this whole suggestion forum and just give create routes of the same old 3 countries over and over again. Yugoslavian narrow gauge suggestions are only "outrageous" if no-one supports the idea. If suggestions like these would be filtered out at the beginning, you'd just be creating a tunnel vision. Sure, you could allow only suggestion from UK/US/DE, because those are the ones most likely to happen, but what's the point. If you do that, you'll never find out there's a demand for things like Yugoslavian narrow gauge. Which, IMO, is a pretty good suggestion. (Toss me the link and I'll upvote it). No clue how exactly such a system would work, especially since I'm not in favour of such a system in the first place. But I've rarely seen popular suggestions losing popularity. Well, I guess the amount of LIRR suggestions dropped a tad when LIRR was released, but even then there's several LIRR suggestions popping up. Same for London Underground routes, which seem to be pretty popular suggestion even after the release of Bakerloo line. And then there'll always be people suggestion the Channel Tunnel... So, what's popular now may be pretty much similar to what's popular three years ago. Why would you stop someone from voting on a suggestion made 3 years ago, if they still think it's a good suggestion? Why would you let suggestions "expire" so to say.
I they only get one vote, it's likely the "first one" will be either a main trunk route which is iconic in some fashion, or the one they live close to now, or the one they lived close to as a kid. It could be that if they voted three years ago (say 2018) that the stock or idea didn't come to them, so unless they're allowed to multi-vote or retract they then cannot change that vote for the childhood line, or something like riviera in the 50s... People's thoughts do change over time, so an "endless" vote would essentially dilute. You also have to assume that people come and go from the hobby, so a fair proportion of the people who voted three years ago may not even be playing any more. If the vote lasted a few weeks, then got repeated quarterly you'd get an idea of what the mood is now of the player base now
It was just a thought... More on Yugo narrow gauge here: http://www.penmorfa.com/JZ/index.htm However only viable as a suggestion once steam traction is established and so far as ng stuff is concerned, I think people are likely to want Ffestiniog/Welsh Highland etc. before anything more far flung and hard to model. Apart from the Sargan 8, most of these old routes have been obliterated and can only be traced by poring over old Soviet military maps. A little hobby of mine!
I believe UserVoice gives you a pool of votes to use, and you can retract votes and change them at any time. Also, if your suggestion gets made, you get those votes back. I also believe you can give up to 3 votes for any one thing, so you have a way of indicating which one you REALLY want vs something you'd quite like. I certainly get that it could create biases, having the highest voted things at the top, but I don't think that's all bad TBH. If someone who isn't well versed in what it takes to make a route comes in and just throws out suggestions willy nilly, they might suggest all sorts of ridiculous things that will never be made, which is a waste of time for everyone. If, on the other hand, they see a list of popular requests and they only have a limited number of votes, they might think "hmm, yeah, those are quite good suggestions actually, I would like those ones too". I don't think that's totally bad. Yes it's biased, but biases aren't always bad. I do think the weakness though, would be that people would be inclined to make too many safe/boring choices and shy away from suggesting what they really want. Most of the time, it's probably a moot point because most of those suggestions wouldn't be that popular, but there might be isolated cases where a lot of people want a route, but are too afraid to say it, because they don't see anyone else posting it or voting for it.
I was working on the curated list basis. If you made it that anyone can suggest anything then it would become very tedious very quickly as the same humdrum boring mainline slogs get suggested every time
Yes that is a good point. Perhaps a curated list with regular votes could work when it comes to DLCs, but it wouldn't work so well for general core product suggestions.
I like seeing some of the more obscure suggestions. You might find something you didn't know existed, or a spin on something. And with the Yugoslavian NG - while that might be too niche, I bet someone somewhere is noting down the general ideas people want. So for example a bunch of Narrow Gauge suggestions will mean DTG start looking at narrow gauge lines in general to see what might fit with TSW. Similarly a bunch of suggestions for a for new country might mean they look into what would be needed to be done and may lead to them approaching rail operators there (though obviously if operator says no or is not co-operative that may kill even popular suggestions)
Fabdiva and Saltychipz, I don't think changing system would stop either of those things happening. The main difference is the sort order, and hopefully less duplication because voting would would bring more common suggestions higher and people would see them more easily and click to vote rather than reposting the same idea again in a seperate thread/line item.
Don't overestimate the average forum user. Posting a new topic is easier than searching for an existing one, it seems. I'm also surprised by the amount of suggestions that include nothing more than one line of text. If it were up to me, such suggestions would've been moved to trash bin right away. I have no intention to take a suggestion seriously if you can't be bothered to put in some work in it, add some reference pictures, describe the route for those not familiar with the route, and tell us why you think it's a good idea. But ah well, as long as there's still people mindlessly suggesting the Channel Tunnel, we really shouldn't overestimate our average forum user.
Not sure if this is a joke or not. Search function should find you several suggestion topics and people replying why it is NOT a good idea. Which makes another good example why a discussion forum has its advantages as a platform for suggestions. Rather than just upvotes/downvotes, people can explain why. Any suggestion may be partially good, and partially bad, providing useful info for DTG (and third parties).
Long Tunnels are not that much fun - if you have TS Classic try the Gotthard route - 10 mins of continuous tunnel, if you are lucky you might see a train come the other way. Channel Tunnel is single track bores, so you'll be on your own, probably under cruise control in darkness for 25-30 mins.
