At the moment TOCs are having to get anything over about £500 signed off by Gov, and PR has to go for approval, I've noticed a few slogans creeping in. Plus the current cuts to timetables being pushed are not going to help.
This is true, and it is my profile picture because it is the train from Isle of White, but it is sporting what I believe I have at least once on this forum called the worst livery a UK train has ever had This is true and I did think of that as I was posting about this logo. They never went as far as to call it Great British Airways so I’ll still give them a pass. To be fair though having a flag on something that does go abroad a lot and represents the national air carrier in foreign lands incorporating the flag makes sense. There’s not much need for that on an operation that is wholly contained within our shores. I just hope the train livery doesn’t follow a red white and blue theme. Red, white or blue or possibly two of them would be fine but not a mix of all three because that will just look awful, like the livery in my profile picture does.
Maybe the blue and white surround on the logo will be incorporated into the livery? (I spent way too much time making that)
That's an airline though. It's a lot more common for airlines to have patriotic branding, whereas I can only think of the Americans for flags on trains, and it looks tacky.
I massively disagree on NSE branding - clean, smooth and understated, better than anything seen in the UK since. I'm dreading the livery reveal for GBR however, which at this rate will probably make FGW look tasteful and well designed.
I've ought to agree with some of the things said about the Union flag version of the logo - my political views aside - it's really a misuse of the Union Flag. The Red in the Saltire represents Ireland (or now, Northern Ireland) - N. Ireland isn't in GBR. The blue + white Saltire (obviously) are representing Scotland, where the vast majority of services will remain under ScotRail/Scottish Government control, with InterCity being the exception (the sleeper will remain as is at present) It's a smart design, yes, however it's horrible. One of the best things about the BR logo (to me) is it's simplicity. It's one colour, and iconic design, and it's smart. We don't need to change it. Keep the BR logo one colour, be it Red or White, and leave it alone. Just the Gov't trying to stir up this "patriotic" rhetoric.
America and Scotland are the only two I can think of for trains - with one being less subtle than the other. Wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese or something had them as well.
Yeah, I'll agree with you on the simplicity factor, this new logo has too much going on. In simple practical terms adding the blue to the logo adds nothing to the logo apart from make it harder to see.
Irish Rail, FS and SBB include their flags in their logos, but much more subtly. The Glacier express uses the Swiss Flag, but that's much more Tourist promotion than anything else. Given the current political climate with Scotland and NI both considering leaving the Union, the current flag obsession is more about trying to offset that. In that context the flag logo seems very much a political statement. I just think it's a terrible logo, Just stick to the double arrow. .
I don't have a dog in this hunt, but for what it's worth I think " Great British Railways " sounds a bit pompous, if not a little ruritanian. However, I rather like the logo. It feels a bit like British Rail taking back some territory that was rather rudely seized from them back in the day. I have no problem with the use of flags as part of train liveries. I think UP's, which goes back over a hundred years, is rather tasteful. The tea clipper in my avatar has a tiny British flag on its stern -most mast which flutters in the breeze whenever the heating or a/c cycles on. Despite stujoy's objection to flag-flying, I have no plans to remove it.
What's the chances another government will come along and rename it either 'GB Rail' or 'British Rail'?
Probably Slim. British Rail is probably the optimal name, although I'm sure many would probably resent it, due to BR's failures. Although, considering this GBR will be at arms' length, with external companies still having a role, it's probably not worthy of the name.
I hope there isn’t a “livery reveal”. Having one design for all trains sucks the joy out of taking train journeys in specific areas.
Well, hopefully there's some differentiation, like how the latter BR era had Regional, NSE, Intercity and so on.
I'd hope so, but there are also a noisy part of the enthusiast world who just want everything taken back to BR blue because NSE and Intercity were too gaudy**. Mind you some also wanted LNER to wrap the 80x in faux teak! ** They really hated the bright Best Impressions liveries (Virgin, SWT/EMT, LM)
I personally don't think trains should be tarted up like F1 cars. I prefer the quiet dignity of GWR green. But paint jobs really are a pretty trivial concern, compared to whether Britain's rail system is going to be run competently at a reasonable cost to passengers, shippers and taxpayers, or a complete goat-rope.
You mean there’s still hope? Not that it makes much difference really. After all, as long as there is a comprehensive service that covers the needs of the passengers all over the country, and the services run efficiently and reliably, with comfortable clean trains, and the prices are reasonable and affordable, they could paint the trains like Mr Blobby and it wouldn’t really matter.
I will admit you make a very good point these are very important compared to livery’s, but I will miss the Greater Anglia livery as it’s very nice
I have a strong feeling the livery will literally just be grey or white with a yellow front where needed and contrasting doors (perhaps coloured depending on operator; ie light blue for GN, pink for TL, dark blue for Northern, purple for EMR, etc).
TBH, almost any livery they choose, but especially anything based on red, white and blue, would look better if they could dispense with those damn yellow patches, an ancient and useless "safety" requirement which is decades past its sell-by.
If it gets rid of some of those garish color schemes that some franchisees seem so enamored of, it will be a welcome change. I like the old colors like all over blue or green, burgundy or even choc & cream, blood and custard.
Yeah, to borrow car terms, I like the "British Racing Green" of the GWR trains as well. But I think they'll avoid using a "dark" overall color like green or the old BR Blue, to make it stand out more in promo material - something more like the Network Southeast livery. Personally I think something like the livery Cameron's Gaming made would be pretty nice/possible. We'll see.
These were generally from the days when trains were painted manually rather than by computer or "wrapped" as many are now. I'm fine with neutral schemes or those less "whacky" than some we've seen, but we don't need to regress to the 60s and 70s with a guy in a cap and a steady hand... The world has moved on a bit
For the livery discussion: As long as Scotland keeps the ScotRail Saltire I'm happy. (Though, I do quite like Avanti, LNWR, GA, LNR, XC and GWR's liveries.)
Scottish railways are devolved so I don't see why this would change... same with wales (even if their livery is more boring)
The Scotrail livery is up there with Transpennine Express and South West Trains as one of the best UK Liveries ever.
Is it? Many trains still have rubbish headlights here. Moan about it all you want but replacing headlights is going to be more expensive than a tin of yellow paint.
Generally anything built since the 700 meets the requirements - though many are keeping yellow to match their existing fleets.
I wonder how many lives have actually been saved? Several thousand blokes who went, "Coo! That train bearing down on me has the front painted yellow, I'd best get off the tracks!" As has been oft observed, all trackage in Britain is fenced and all grade crossings gated.
It's effectively a train's version of a high-vis jacket. And yes, everyone on the track is a tresspasser and not there by permission
