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How To Use The Breaks Downhill

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by olikas.g, Jul 18, 2020.

  1. olikas.g

    olikas.g Member

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    When I drive the trains on the NTP route and go downhill, I usually use the straight brakes to keep the speed in check. If I understand the terminology correctly, this is the locomotive break. If I try to use the train break, even at initial reduction, it starts to slow the train down too much and I constantly need to release it to gain speed again.
    In real life, how is it done? I doubt that the driver applies 100% break.
    Thank you for the answer, in advance.
     
  2. Deimenried

    Deimenried Member

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    Yeah, it doesn't seem right does it? But they are good enough to shave off a bit off speed and they come down faster as well.
     
  3. L89

    L89 Active Member

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    Aren't you supposed to use the straight brakes before releasing the main brake? That is my use case for it. Sometimes I use it to assist with braking at a terminus.
     
  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You should never use the straight brake to control your speed downhill. The correct way is to use the train brake lightly and occasionally to keep the speed below the speed limit.
     
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  5. Deimenried

    Deimenried Member

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    See, if I use the Train Brake as you say it results in a lot of snatching, particularly on freight consists.
     
  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You only need to put the brake into initial application or (for a very heavy train) just above it and that will be sufficient to slow the train a little. The brakes take a short time to apply along the whole train and again to release and you only need a tiny amount. So, for a 60mph limit you might apply initial application of the train brake at 57mph, to ensure enough gentle braking along the whole train, which should stop the acceleration before you reach 60mph. When the speed starts reducing again you can release the brakes and your speed might drop to 55mph. You then repeat the process to stay close to but below the speed limit. The actual amount of braking and the timing will depend on the weight of the train, the gradient, and how responsive the brakes are. With the brakes set to freight timing the brakes apply and release more slowly and this is specifically to reduce the snatching.
     
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  7. Deimenried

    Deimenried Member

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    Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try :)
     
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  8. Pookiebarra

    Pookiebarra Member

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    I would add to Stujoy,s answer, that on the railway, you would do route training. You know your gradients, signals, speed limits etc. Try to learn them on your route. Brake in time, use the throttle..like driving a car think ahead.
     
  9. olikas.g

    olikas.g Member

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    Thank you for the answers. So to sum up, there is no way to apply less than Inital reduction. If this breaks the train more than the speed gain from the gradient, than there is no better way in the real world than slow down (eg) 5 mph then let the train gain speed again then slow down again and repeat this cycle? This seems a bit odd to me, but since I never travelled on these routes with these locos, I won’t know whether this is the case.
    In the game I think I will stick to the straight break until they simulate the break pads heating up. :)
     
  10. F.Barnes

    F.Barnes Member

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    Sorry, but thats not correct. For example Class 45:
    The Driver's Brake at "initial application" raises the brake-pressure slowly to a defined value, but you can interrupt raising by
    change the Driver's Brake back to "Running" (NOT "Release/Overcharge").
    So if you start put the Brake to "intitial" and wait 1,2 or 3 seconds, then back to "running", the
    braking force holds its value ....

    Works also with other Locos (DB BR204, DB BR 155, american Diesel-Locos)
     
  11. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That is totally incorrect. When the brakes are put in the running position the brakes are released. It does not hold the brakes in position. The American diesel locos have a “lap” position and some have a “hold” position for doing what you describe.
     
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  12. F.Barnes

    F.Barnes Member

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    Yep, you're right, i'm wrong.
    Running position releases the brakes.
    I mixed it up with the BR204, so my explanation was incorrect.
    Thank you stujoy.
     
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  13. olikas.g

    olikas.g Member

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    So now that we have reached a consensus, is my observation correct?
    > So to sum up, there is no way to apply less than Inital reduction. If this breaks the train more than the speed gain from the gradient, than there is no better way in the real world than slow down (eg) 5 mph then let the train gain speed again then slow down again and repeat this cycle?
     
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  14. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    On the way down from Standedge tunnel into Huddersfield for example, with power off, I put it into initial application when the speed reaches 65 mph. As soon as the speed starts coming down, however slight, I put it back into running. By repeating this procedure as necessary, you can keep the speed as close to 65 mph without slowing down excessively. Usually I get it to cycle between 64 and 65 mph.
     
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  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    No problem. With so many trains about it’s easy to forget which one does what :D

    That’s right. It also gives you something to do while descending the grade so you’re not just sitting there like when you’re going up hill with full power on, twiddling your thumbs. You have to be careful not to end up just constantly watching your speedometer and not keeping an eye on the track!

    It’s great when you can do that and get it so close to the speed limit without going over, I get great satisfaction out of it.
     
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  16. F.Barnes

    F.Barnes Member

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    And again:
    You're right ...... but sometimes

    Video 1: BR Class 47
    1. Test: initial application ("Anfängliches Anlegen") @50km/h
    2. Test: initial application @50km/h and after few seconds back to running ("fahrend") holds the
    actual braking force ... after a short time back to initial application and the braking force raises more.


    Video 2:
    Same effect at lower speed.



    I Know this must be a bug, because it is not working every time.
     
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  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’s odd behaviour. I’ve never encountered that myself.
     

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