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How Will Multiplayer Work?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ian1991, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Active Member

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    Hi guys, I know that multiplayer is in development along with alot of other things but can anyone shed light on how it will work?

    Is it a case of youll be generated into the chosen map and can only drive services that are available or can you drive any service whilst other trains are taken by others live? I dont see how it would work properly?
     
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  2. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Well-Known Member

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    We don't know.
     
  3. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    We will see in some years, I don't think multiplayer is coming "soon". Maybe never. DTG said I will come "eventually". Does not sound like they are working on it right now.

    "Multiplayer has never had a date attached to it, the plan is to bring it to the game eventually but development of a multiplayer system is a long and complicated process, please bear with us.
    - Jay"
     
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  4. ASRGT

    ASRGT Member

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    Personally, I’d be happy to see a service mode equivalent in a multiplayer setting, nothing over the top in terms of player count 2- 4 players to begin with. Let it be free form just like service mode, players can choose to drive a service ride one or all drive their own services etc..

    As a base to build from that would be my goal , we can dream one day lets hope :D
     
  5. TrainSim-Jay

    TrainSim-Jay Guest

    What would be your ideal way multiplayer could work?

    - Jay
     
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  6. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Active Member

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    On American freight you always have an Engineer and Conductor. The Engineer drives the train, the Conductor handles all coupling and uncoupling of cars, throwing switches etc, this is done by radio communication when they are not in the cab together, the engineer almost never leaves his seat. Currently the fact that you being the engineer must leave the trail to throw switches or uncouple cars makes it quite unrealistic. It would be quite fun to have an actual conductor on the train.
     
  7. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Expecting the same.

    Would be the same Bullshit they did with the PIS. Talking around how all assets have been placed and everything is almost ready to go for it (in August 2017 btw. They also reworked their Homepage and deleted every Answer they gave in the comments) and 3 month later its suddenly something they EVENTUALLY are going to add to the game. Those guys are actually just abusing the shi t out of them having the only Train Simulator in the market without any alternatives/competitor. Im starting to regret liking anything regarding Trains.
     
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  8. TrainSim-Jay

    TrainSim-Jay Guest

    We didn't delete anything, we moved to an entirely new platform and comments didn't carry over.

    Also, regarding PIS, the assets were completed and it was pretty much ready to go but we ran into a number of issues with it displaying correctly that were on account of engine side issues and as such were unable to implement it.

    We still hope to get it into the game eventually though.

    - Jay
     
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  9. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Active Member

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    Myself i dont know what your limits are, but i would think if i went into multiplayer mode and it would show me which services are available to take over....
    (Services unavailable are already being played by someone in real-time)

    Then you choose which service you drive and all the other trains at that time are driven by live players/or ai for the services not taken live at that time.

    Does this make sense? However depending on popularity you maybe would need several networks of the same map running, if everyone is online trying to drive, OR you could book a service to drive and wait for the train to arrive and take over once the previous player has completed the service with that train.

    Thats how I see it jay what do you think?
    Just laugh if its too much lol
     
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  10. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    That's the way I'd imagine it working as well to be honest.
     
  11. PlatChap

    PlatChap Active Member

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    I honestly probably wouldn't play multiplayer that much outside of a private/controlled server. For anyone who has ever played ETS or ATS multiplayer .. it can be an absolute nightmare at times. There are always going to be those people that grief the server and would intentionally speed, ignore signals, derail their own and other people's trains, etc. How would the server handle a derailment or a collision with another train? Would that even be possible? How would the server handle someone ignoring a red signal?

    Speaking of servers, would they include both public and private servers or would we be limited to solely one or the other? I personally feel a multiplayer aspect of this would work best in a password protected server. As for the timetables, would there be server side tools to allow for custom timetables to maybe accommodate more or less train traffic? If you were able to add more trains to the schedule, would someone be able to go in and customize things such as what locomotives would be pulling which rolling stock? If so, we could finally have much longer trains for routes like Sand Patch.

    There are a lot of questions to be asked here and it's no easy task to go implement something like this.
     
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  12. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Active Member

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    I get the issue with servers but myself i think there should/would be barrier rules.....for example when entering this mode you agree to adhere to rules.....if you run a red light your booted out the map, if you derail....your booted out, if your more than 10minutes late for no reason (not the games fault).....your booted out and if you are booted out lets say more than 3times in 24hours then ur banned for 24hours, thats how id see it anyway.

    I would see as you use your steam account to use the server or a dovetail account so it is private, and again have up to say 5/6 systems running the same map and agree to terms ans conditions so that is people want to to abuse it or be stupid and cause major disruptions they get banned from using the server, only fair.

    And i dont see the need for adjustments to timetable or extra services just keep the same 24hr system thats in place now, if people abuse the system and try to cause incidents on purpose or be stupidly late the game can trigger a warning message from 'control' as a roleplay......asking them to catch up with schedule or another driver will be dispached, of they dont theyre booted out the server......simple as that really.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  13. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    The impression I get is that the plan is to build multiplayer off of services mode, but that the editors should come first so that we can make our own services timetables that are more fun than the current ones (you can only do so much with the default 35 services on Sand Patch) and if there are not enough players, then the AI takes over services like in singleplayer.
    I also figure the dispatcher would be the AI, at least at the start of multiplayer's life. Being dispatcher is something that would work in singleplayer and multiplayer, but I don't think it is a requirement for either.

    As much as there is a big difference between driving on road and on rails, I also would not be surprised to see trolls going around. But I think the solution is pretty simple-if someone SPADs or derails, just do what singleplayer does: kick to the main menu without warning. Let server creators decide if that should be a kick that prevents them from joining for a while, or lets them join immediately, but I think no matter what you want as a server creator that a SPAD or derail should terminate the service and put the player back on the main menu.
     
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  14. USRailFan007

    USRailFan007 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, we don't see some "Rail Rage" going on (aka guy afks for like 15mins, delaying the entire service time table --- though, this would be fun in its own way too), via multiplayer. Should probably allow hosts, if its going to be based off a person's connection rather than have dedicated servers, to set rules, which allow for more realistic experiences or just outright fun. Trolls are most definitely, unavoidable. Best one can do is brace for impact when it drops.
     
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  15. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Active Member

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    Yes i agree that the whole point would be yeah its cool.if im stuck behind a slow moving service or something but there has to be a boundary bound by the game......so aslong as a player is operating a train correctly they are travelling at atleast 80% speed etc then they are fine.....but if someone sits at a station for 5mins they should get a message from 'the depot' asking if they are ok and to continue, to which the player has one minute to respond and move the train or AI takes over.......something like that.
     
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  16. PlatChap

    PlatChap Active Member

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    What would happen to the service that offended and it's driver got kicked? Would the service just be gone or would someone (or an AI if those are implemented into MP) just take it over with a late penalty? If the train was derailed is it just rerailed and taken over by someone else? Whatever system that is in place that determines when to kick someone would also need to know which person to kick in the event of a player vs player collision. If 2 player trains collide, the system would have to take into consideration the circumstances behind the event, determine which player(s) were at fault and remove that client from the server. This is assuming the system is automated like it is in single player where its a lot easier determine who's at fault.
     
  17. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Active Member

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    Any event that happens is simple....if an issue is created BY a player or players they both get kicked out to main menu the ai takes over the service and that service is then ready to bw taken over at the next station by a live player.

    Two trains wouldnt collide due to safety systems and the game would kick someone out and replace with ai if they storm thru a red light or buffer. Itd just mimic what the game does now.

    Its very simple rules drive properly or get kicked just like what happens now in service mode.
     
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  18. Drakoz

    Drakoz Member

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    Biggest problem with multi-player would be idiots and jerks ruining everyone's day. It is impossible to solve that through enforcement of any rules in the game as that is a human nature problem that exists on all MP platforms.

    MP should simply allow multiple people to be in the environment, walking around and doing the things you can do in single player, but just with each other. Allowing 2 or 3 people to work a train as engineer, brakeman, and conductor (mostly applies to switching cars and yard work). Or just allowing a couple people to ride along together on the engine as they traverse the route. Ya, kinda boring, but it's a train simulator. That's pretty much what we do here. :D

    A second stage for MP would be to have a route "command" structure (controllers in the towers or someone controlling the entire route). This probably does not fit well into the current scheme for TSW as the services are automated. Maybe a way to view this is, add the service system together with a less controlled way of doing yard switching and unscheduled train work. Now you are talking about something that is real and active, not just a sterile train schedule that is followed blindly throughout the day.

    TSW would need to add decent looking player avatars (the NPC's currently in TSW are very simple and limited) as the avatars would need to look like they are doing many of the things they would do. Stuff like climb on, off, and around an engine or rail car, switching a switch, sitting down and getting up from seats in the engines, etc.

    It would be nice to add radio comms handled in TSW instead of depending on external software like TeamSpeak. I know this is a lot to add, but it is important because MP would involve the need for pairs or small groups of people to be able to communicate on private channels (like an engineer and conductor or brakeman), and other channels for main line comms with a tower. There are ways to do this with Teamspeak or Discord, though.

    Main point of all this - make Train Sim World come alive by allowing real people to do all the things that real people would do around a railroad. That is what MP should offer.

    Also consider that adding all this as MP also allows it to be done in Single Player. At least things like having 2 or 3 people working a train. But in SP, the player would be able to switch from engineer to brakeman to conductor on their own instead of using the external views or getting in and out of the engineer's seat themselves to perform these other jobs. So if these features are added with SP and MP in mind, it really enhances TSW for both modes.
     
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  19. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Just to note; I don't think it's actually possible to derail a train in TSW and I believe that was a deliberate choice by the developers. Most companies that offer licenses probably don't want videos out showing their branded rolling stock derailing. Bad publicity.
     
  20. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    I would love to have Virtual Railroad Company's again.

    Private and Public servers where you can choose different roles.
    A manager that plans services that can be run from templates (also user-created ones) that will adjust to the starting-time and assigns them to drivers.
    A operator per yard/segment where it makes sense, that routes the trains on their journeys.
    And then there are the drivers which start at an "Office" on stations or whatever and get their train assigned or can just walk around.

    All this organized with simulated radio(voice) and text-chat.

    For public servers the manager and operator may be scripted instead, just to not ruin it for everyone...
     
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  21. GibbseyNZ

    GibbseyNZ New Member

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    Firstly for multiplayer I think the ability to work a train with another player would be good and probably easiest to do. An example would be in Heavy Haul, 1 player is locomotive engineer driving the train and another acts as conductor and gets on and off the loco coupling up and getting points levers. would be more cooperative than just driving trains on the same route at the same time which wouldn't be much different than solo driving.
    Another option would be a dispatcher or signal box mode where you are in control of a section of track and have to route trains through. can have "radio" communication between drivers in section and controller to manage trains.
     
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  22. RXRNathan

    RXRNathan New Member

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    I'm guessing that some dispatchers will work the trains round so everything works fine. It would be good to see a locomotive operator and a train crew to make the ends meet so its easier on the dispatchers. But it's dependent on how many people and locomotives could be running in the server, as there could be long waits at signals for a clearance or an approach medium.
     
  23. 85Leaf

    85Leaf Member

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    I'm certainly interested in eventually seeing how DTG implement MP in TSW. I can understand the concerns re: trolls and those bent on ruining a session-- I definitely had similar concerns until I dipped my toe into the world of MP as defined by Run 8 Studios in their trainsim. I played on a 24/7 server that anyone serious about trains and working with others could get the password for. I ended up meeting a great bunch of players from around the globe instead of what I feared; trolls/idiots. That was a huge relief and so it was super easy to get stuck in.

    There was something for all of us- yard work galore if you liked switching or operating the hump yard, locals to run if that was your thing, mainline runs, MoW stuff, dispatching-- it was/is pretty sandboxy (there were a couple of players who would log in as foamers/anoraks which made me chuckle). I ended my time there while being a server admin (real life sometimes has a habit of getting in the way of things!). As an aside, as a server admin I cautioned one player in many hundreds of hours of play and in a variable population from 5 or 6 players 'afterhours' to 40+ players at peak times. I'm thinking that the community aspect will be similar in TSW.

    Of course it also depends on how DTG implement multiplayer too. I will say I'm hoping it's not like their attempt in RW3 or maybe TS2012? where you selected a scenario, drove the bag off the loco for a portion of the route, then sent the save file to your buddy who then loaded up that save and took over the vacated loco only to have to drive the sack off it in order to catch up to RSC/DTG's overly rigid timetabling. If I recall correctly I don't believe we actually ever completed a scenario that way lol.
     
  24. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    You mean relay mode? Wasn't that one scenario for that entire "gamemode" great? \s
     
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  25. 85Leaf

    85Leaf Member

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    That's right, Relay Mode...sorry, forgot the correct term. That was their nod at multiplayer since it took more than one player to complete the relay. At the time I *think* I was worried it would be similar to the MP n3v had tacked on to Trainz 9 or 10 (of course that was before my good experiences in R8). Heh, too funny. :)
     
  26. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Member

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    I don't understand where this idea that a multiplayer simulator would be rampant of trolls comes from. Train Simulators are an extremely niche hobby, with a high price tag. Not too many people on this planet find train simulators something intriguing because let's face it, the average human could care less about driving trains, and TSW with it's DLCs probably cost around 100 USD.
     
  27. 85Leaf

    85Leaf Member

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    I can't point out the origin of the idea of trolls rampaging through a Trainsim to ruin the gameplay for everyone else as thats been around for a long time-- despite very little actual train sim MP available. It may well be due to what happens in other simulations that have MP where there are, it seems, always a couple of idiots getting their jollies from provoking others. Not every server, whether run by a game company or a 'public' set up, are adminned well. Your play experience will vary dependent on the players logged in and the willingness of the server owner/operators/admins to enforce their servers etiquette and ruleset.

    As a former server admin/GM I can attest to the shenanigans (hacks, exploits etc) and other ban-able behavior of a very few who certainly try to ruin the experience of everyone else playing; why would they do that? I've no short answer. Some things you can do to protect yourself are join passworded servers if available, join known servers where you know who is playing or at least know the reputation of that server/group of players (much like a model rail club). Go in with an open mind- not everyone is an expert and not everyone is a terribad player. Don't get drawn into a debate with a troll. If you need to complain, whisper the admin/GM online and let them deal with the situation-- if they ignore the situation then you have the ability of not going back to that server and finding somewhere that you find is better/fits your play-style. In MP rail I find you get a wide range of players, from those who want complete immersion and prototypical 'play' to some who are just there to operate a train for a little while, to those who are indifferent to whats being played out and are laissez-faire with time tables etc. Add personality and some of what I mentioned doesn't mix. Hence my comment 'keep an open mind'. Hopefully that all makes some kind of sense.
     
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  28. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of the perspective on trolls comes from truck sim multiplayer, where trolls are most definitely a reality that's not really being counteracted that well. I mean, you give people pretty fast cars in a truck game and expect anyone to be reasonable? Come on...

    Of course, train sim is very different from truck sim. As a (literally) on rails experience, there's actually a lot less that any troll could do compared to the general perspective on trolls. Considering that a troll here would be at the mercy of a dispatcher and a system that can easily detect when they do something wrong, it would be pretty easy to take action automatically for someone doing anything from speeding to spadding. (Compare that to truck sim where you can have people choosing their route, driving the wrong way, smashing into other people...and no real systems in place to automatically detect who is at fault.)

    And it helps that train sim is smaller and not so cheap. You aren't going to need to fit 1000 people on one map, thus less to moderate, and the price to get into a session may be $70 considering a route and a couple loco DLC at play. Someone going out of their way to cause trouble is more likely to go for a bigger game that is cheaper.

    My perspective? I don't think TSW multiplayer will be claimed by trolls.
     
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  29. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    I think creating a working multiplayer system is very complicated, due to all possible interactions you need to take into account. You can see, the core TSW game is quite well prepared for multiplayers. You can think of:

    - In service mode you claim a service. Unclaimed services are driven as AI. Multiple players play them.
    - Using different roles, e.g. shunter, driver, traffic control.
    - With multiple users perform shunting duties.

    Again I believe it is very complicated to make it really woking with potentially non-co-operative users and users acting with very different levels of skills and ambitions. To me it is not very important.
     
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