[hrr] Completely Broken Nighttime Lighting

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by gogglesguy, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy New Member

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    This is Essen Hbf at night. Would you feel safe here?
    20210822121631_1.jpg

    This is inside in the train. Have you ever been inside any modern train at night where the light is so directional it's casting harsh shadows on the faces of your fellow passengers?
    20210822121043_1.jpg

    Look at that "bright" headlight. It's sooo bright, I can't see anything else on this platform.
    20210822120055_1.jpg
     
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  2. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I don't even feel safe at Essen HBF in broad daylight so... :D
     
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  3. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is the issue DTG create when when they don't set up the light sources properly from the beginning.

    The darkness is how dark its supposed to be at night, however the issue now faced is that the actual light sources, such as station and environment lights, are not bright enough, or are not placed sufficiently. Placing lights too far from each other, for example.

    This is because the artificial global lighting previously compensated for this. This was the lighting that made everything slightly blue at night. So DTG did not pay too much attention on the light sources, and where they are placed.

    We have the same issue on Glasgow Cathcart Circle.

    As for the interior lighting, we've always had this issue of it looking too bright and lights not spread out evenly, but instead set up as a spot light.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
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  4. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Additionally, the upper level blue lighting on the Dostos now seems to glow on the outside of the train. Spooky.

    upload_2021-8-22_20-21-48.png
     
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  5. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    This has been a known issue for a long long time, only the hamburg dostos don't have this bug
     
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  6. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    That is not new. Has always been there AFAIK. I think they fixed it in the Hamburg-Lubek Dostos, but the fix never went back to the old routes.
     
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  7. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy New Member

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    Ha... can't argue with that
     
  8. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    20210822174412_1.jpg

    Dont go into the light, it goes to Duisburg!!

    Not only the Nighttime Lighting is broken, because the light on the stations is also on on the day
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    My Eyes!!!
     
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  10. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    As yet another annual update passes us by the lighting remains as terrible as always across all routes, at all times of day and in all weathers.

    I really thought (hoped?) this would have been the one where things changed for the better but no. It remains as ugly and broken as ever.

    It absolutely ruins the game.
     
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  11. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Another one fo Adam to mop up. I still wonder what their standard bug or dev checklist is because it seems something that gets fixed on one route is present on the next at times
     
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  12. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I think this one is something fundamental to the way lighting is applied to the environment across the game.

    Given we now have a next-gen console version and native DX12 support (I assume, at least on the new XBOX) we can only hope that ray-tracing is in the pipeline. Even without that LondonMidland showed what the engine is capable of with his nighttime UE4 console changes so why the game still looks the way it does is mystifying.

    More passengers and a new UI are great and all but they should have been a long way below sorting this lighting out on the list of priorities.

    As I said, in my humble opinion it ruins the game and the majority of time of day and weather combinations are just completely unusable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
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  13. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Anywhere the ue4 console changes are published? Seem to have missed it
     
  14. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    TSW’s lighting is all over the place. The only thing that looks decent is Summer midday.

    Sunrise, sunset and night time lighting look completely awful as the sky and ground/terrain lighting are completely out of sync with each other. Not to mention the fact that it gets brighter as the night wears on and also gets darker as the sun starts to rise.

    How is it that they’ve still not even managed to create a single route with a decent amount of light sources? They’ve been relying on the ‘fake’ global lighting for far too long now, and those screenshots really show it as things are pitch black. It looks like a post apocalyptic world.

    Time to sort it out, DTG.
     
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  15. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that!

    I can think of a number of issues that should have higher priority than simply increasing passenger density. Headlights on US trains ( Boston is still not right) is one. Animated crossings on all new routes is another ( if on one or two, why not all). Water textures are a big one for me. I welcome the increase in AI traffic on Boston. One down and many to go.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    londonmidland I really don't know what the issue is :D:D

    I thought I could see everything, and then I derailed. This is in journey mode so assume its in optimum summer conditions....

    Screenshot (98).png Screenshot (99).png
     
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  17. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I love how your cab is somehow being lit by an invisible light source whilst outside is pitch black. Gotta love all the inconsistencies ;)
     
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  18. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is how I expect my cab to look at night. Just the dials lit up with it being nice and dark. No annoying and immersive breaking blue tinge light like we have in TSW. Both settings are on full cloud so no moonlight. Comparison below.

    Train Simulator:
    upload_2021-8-24_15-32-38.jpeg

    Train Sim World:
    night.jpg
     
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  19. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    I don't see that second photo as being immersion breaking, our eyes adjust to the darkness in time and more becomes visible. I spent many years serving in submarines, where 'black lighting' is required at Periscope Depth. The theory behind it is to make the inside of the submarine darker than the outside at night, regardless of moon/cloud, so that we can always see outside when the periscope is raised. To achieve that, thick blackout curtains are rigged and even red lights are verboten, except the very faintest. Barely enough to read the gauges.

    With just that very dim light from gauges and dials, the first twenty minutes on watch are in near total darkness, just like your first image. However, after that time, it's more like the second one. Not exactly, of course, but you can make out a lot of detail. Enough that you can immediately tell who is passing aft or forward just by the way they walk and their body shape. I've said before that I think DTG really needs to up their game on lighting, but to my mind that doesn't mean making it like the first twenty minutes on watch in a submarine.

    BTW - one of the coolest things I noticed in those conditions were the twin cones of light shining into the periscope watchkeeper's eyes as he/she slowly rotated. The whole outside world reduced to two cones of light.
     
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  20. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    As someone who drives trains at night, that top photo is much closer to reality than tsw's lighting, wish they could achieve that. Assetto corsa competizione also uses the unreal engine and their lighting and dynamic skies are way better compared to tsw.
     
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  21. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    ACC is completely on another level in terms of graphics, not only for light system.
     
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  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was thinking. I've been in train cabs in total darkness and the only thing I can see is the lights from the dials.
     
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I don't disagree with that statement, I can't say its the same for driving trains at night. I've been in cabs at night and during night darkness, all you can see is the lights from outside, the sky (depending on light pollution) and the cab dials. You shouldn't be able to see the cab panels.
     
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  24. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    To be fair LM, I think you’ve been extraordinarily kind to TSW2 with the shot you’ve picked there!

    Most of the time it is magnitudes worse than than that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  25. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    Time is the variable here. As your eyes adjust you see more, even if you don't pay attention to it. A beam of white light hits your eyes from any source - a passing track light, a lit platform, and the 20-minute clock resets to zero and they need to readjust all over again. I'm into astronomy as well and it's the same there - when one of us leaves the observing site after a night of stargazing, apologies are profusely given as everyone hides their head under jackets to avoid the glare of headlights.

    Just my opinion, but one based on my experience. Though, admittedly, I've never been in a train cab - but even so, it still has to obey the same laws of physics.
     
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  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    You're right. Often night lighting is a lot worse than that.

    I booted up a random service - this is GCC at 23:00 during January on full cloud. Not only is it unrealistically bright in the cab, the clouds do not stretch over the horizon (this is a old TSW issue) so you can see stars in the distance.

    TSW2_Josh_1629822252_00.jpg
     
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  27. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Weirdly enough the night lighting in the br155 isn't too bad from what i remember with the dials (could be wrong it's been a long time)
     
  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It seems to vary wildly across routes.
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But it still uses the same engine as tsw2 which says alot to be honest
     
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  30. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's true. ACC is a masterpiece in terms of graphics (tbf is a masterpiece in general as a simulator), definitely among the top 3 best games for graphics.
     
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  31. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never even seen, let alone played, ACC.

    I’m intrigued though…are there any tunnels or underground sections in it? If so, are they dark?

    I see that on the new RH route that yet again we have tunnels that are not dark or occluded correctly. Halfway into the distance the lighting just gives up the ghost and lights the tunnel like it’s open air.

    Why oh why can the devs of this game not make a tunnel, a tunnel? Is it really that hard? Try as I might I cannot think of a single other game I’ve ever played where inside or underground is in fact neither. It’s just utterly ridiculous.

    So much of TSW is good that these glaring issues are all the more obvious.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  32. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    some overpasses like at suzuka but nothing major since its locations are racetracks,their nightlighting and dynamic weather are spot on though,even the sounds are great,i read someone blaming the flat audio mixing on unreal but I find that hard to believe
     
  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I really don’t see why DTG find it so hard to add tunnel occlusion or do it properly in the first place?

    I’m not even going to mention the tunnels on SEHS, which were apparently fixed but they clearly aren’t…
     
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  34. Der Uni

    Der Uni Active Member

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    And continue Strange Lights on HRR:

    The strange lights appear even where there are no Platforms:

    [​IMG]

    Or my game hides an entire platform from me.:D

    And more Lights (or Gates to the Sky)....

    [​IMG]

    P.S.: The Glow on the Train looks like a Campfire to me :D:D
    Perhaps some burning Newspapers on the Platform...
     
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  35. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This has happened because the right sort of light mode hasn’t been selected when building the route. Instead of selecting down firing lighting, they’ve simply used one which spreads light in all directions. So it clips through objects and the ground.

    This is why you see it on the ballast, because it’s located on the underpass and they’ve used the wrong type of lighting.
     
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  36. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    is it just me or shouldn't the desert be pitch black at 00:30? already darkened the sky in .ini by 0,5 and still... 20210824224912_1.jpg
     
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  37. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It's such a hard balance as I agree the desert should be dark but seriously what is the point of putting this in as a service. All i can see is stars , dials and signals with the cab light off (yes I know this is probably accurate to some extent)

    BUT

    Turn the cab light on and and it illuminates the world and track outside....?

    Screenshot (100).png Screenshot (101).png
     
  38. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That's just one of the many inconsistencies with the lighting in TSW. Try it in June as ironically this can make nights darker.
     
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  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think its to do with how they set up the cab lighting. I think it 'ignores' the cab shell and glass and illuminates the outside world.
     
  40. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    the areas that should have light like near cities or towns are pitch black...desert bright as day....makes no sense
     
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  41. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I guess all we can do is keep this thread alive, keep sharing examples and hope
     
  42. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is by far the worst lighting I've seen in the game. ECW - 03:50, June, Full Cloud. In its defence, its still using the old skybox.
    TSW2_Josh_1629847551_00.jpg
     
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  43. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Night Lights reflecting off the cloud base? ……. Oh hang on :cool:
     
  44. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    You can see what I mean about the sky and ground lighting being totally out of sync in the above picture. Thankfully it isn’t that bad in newer routes. Still needs to be improved, however.
     
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  45. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    did some tweaks with engine.ini and Reshade,it's not perfect but at least better than the default nights at cane creek 20210825215857_1.jpg 20210825215901_1.jpg
     
  46. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Shame its still quite substantially over lit.
     
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  47. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to DTG never been a fan of how UE4 handles directional lights full stop.

    One can only hope now that they can target builds per platform thanks to the engine update we might see Ray Tracing for lighting or at least shadows come into play to help some of these issues however even the light baked areas of the game are horribly setup with the excessive hots spots and harsh shadows seen on station lights ect considering baked scenes are derived from a Global Illumination to calculate the static light GI then passed out as bitmaps its odd that even that is of such a low bar. I question if there materials are even setup correctly in all honesty. If you take station lights for example it appears at times that simple tweak to there bloom value within the postProcessVolume would have helped a ton on allot of areas .. eh we can all be armchair critics i guess I'm not working under their deadlines but its true that the fundamentals of TSW2s presentation Lighting and shadows have never been a strong point.
    Again can only hope that now that last generation hardware can be targeted directly we might see more interest in re addressing these items but also DTG tend to use the we want everyone to have the same experience regardless of platform argument and have an aversion to in-game options so time will tell.
     
  48. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.. I don't think we'll see an improvement coming from dtg soon.. Too many platforms to keep in mind
     
  49. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, now I’ve had chance to have a good and proper look at it, the Boston Sprinter route really is a step forward in all aspects shadows & lighting. I know this thread is about a preserved route but I think it needs saying.

    It’s not perfect, and there are still really substantial problems with the tunnels but it’s chalk and cheese (other comparisons are available) with some of the older routes.

    DTG have rightly taken a kicking in the last week but they do deserve credit where it’s due. It’s just sad that tonight they’re not displaying this on a stream on a good machine (instead of the Turkey they seem to be so fond of using) and talking about the positive aspects of Rush Hour, which are numerous. Why were we not shown this aspect of the game prior to release for example?

    Complete cluster**** of a rollout aside, Rush Hour does look like a really positive step in the right direction.

    If you want to see what has caused this outbreak of positivity then go to the Journey - Chapter 4, Service 2 - Amtrak Northeast Regional #66 [Providence - Boston] and see for yourself.

    Edited to add - my comments earlier in the thread were based on my incorrect understanding that the new shadows etc had automatically been applied to preserved routes. Those changes can’t come soon enough. New skybox, new shadows, PIS, new passengers and sound should be the number 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 priorities for the preserved crew. Nothing else matters until those features have been addressed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
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  50. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone just talks about ray tracing like its a miracle. There are absolutely gorgeous looking games that achieved that without any ray tracing stuff. Just to make it clear TSW does not look so bad because it does not have ray tracing, it looks so bad because the developers did not find a way to make the global illumination work like all the other games did.
    PS: Did you see how humble games like The Bus or ETS2 look like without any ray tracing?

     
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