I Don’t Like This Push For More ‘gameplay’.

Dude please for the love of stop with his whole 'la la land' or 'narnia layers' thing as you call, you hate these layers, that's fine I get it and in one of your other posts I agreed with you that there should be an ability to toggle layers but I stand be what I said, you are blowing this way out of proportion.

 

Perhaps if they took more time with the route, it wouldn't have been one of the most negatively reviewed routes and one of the worse routes in tsw3 right now. Heck, if they had added a full timetable before release, there would be no need post release to make a full timetable and those efforts could've been allocated for something else

 

OK I've made my point and I'm not gonna reply to any more of your posts in regards to this matter because your just ranting at this point, good day.

 

Please, nobody tell this guy about the holiday express DLC... Not without a defibrillator on standby.

 

Lol good one, but in all seriousness though, Sehs is actually my local route irl, so if anything I should be the one getting annoyed with all these extra layers but I won't because unlike some people here I can actually look past the less realistic layers and actually enjoy Tsw for what it is, my absolute number 1 favourite single player game to spend the evening chilling out on.

 

More traffic and layers the better for me.

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

I think it depends on the amount or frequency of layers. I can live just about with the TGV on SEHS as it only occurs once, although I still wish it was selectable. But then you have WCL and the layers on there go too far.

 

I get that the TGV is a bit of a stretch but honestly, I've never seen it once as AI when I've driven along HS1. It's 4 services out of 600+ and also set to appear during certain months, it's going to be extremely rare to see.

The other stuff, like the ICE, I'm fine with as the ICE did go to London at one point and as someone who prefers vintage stock, the rail tours are a must for me. I suppose another option would be to do a Diesel Legends-type thing and make alternate timetables based on different dates/years where a 385 was sat at Ashford Depot or the ICE was at St. Pancras though that would be a lot more work than maintaining a singular timetable for the route.

Personally, I'm happy with SEHS' timetable as it is. I just want them to fix what broke in the recent patch asap so I can get back to playing it!

 

Why would you not want everyone to enjoy it? Why is the enjoyment of someone who doesn't care about unrealistic layers more important than for those of us who don't want to see unrealistic layers? Why not have selectable layers, then everyone is happy?

 

Personally, I think SEHS is the right balance - I think the seasonal services spice things up a bit and stop it from getting stale and the timetable is now the best in the game (to be added to with the 700). I really enjoy the rail tours and I like seeing them by surprise when I'm operating other services.

I understand where some folk are coming from with regards to the TGV/ICE but I'd rather see them than not if we're never going to have Eurostar added as an operator, which I understand is likely the case due to licensing issues. If Eurostar was ever added, I'd get rid of the TGV/ICE layers.

The only route I think has gone too far in terms of layering was probably including the 40 and 45 in WCL - just layering the 47 instead would have been the right call instead. (WCL was a bit of a mess in many ways though and the occasional tinkering around the edges wasn't going to fix it - IMO the track laying, scenery and stock all need a thorough review.)

Obviously the ultimate solution for all of this is to introduce toggleable layers in the UI - I'm not really sure why that hasn't happened yet.

 

Meanwhile, I'm still wishing Cajon Pass had playable UP layers from the Cutoff to Barstow, instead of just AI traffic on the cutoff, and no option to turn off the ATSF F7....

 

SEHS is my favourite route atm purely because of the additional layers.

Yes, they might be unrealistic, but I am after immersion, and a TGV on HS1 adds to that immersion

 

Okay maybe it's time we all just calmed down a bit now, instead of arguing with each other over this unrealistic layers vs fun gameplay experience (which ok I admit I'm guilty of myself) instead we should all as a united group call on Dtg to introduce a toggle layer system, that way everyone's happy.

 

Even so blue/grey non airconditioned mark 2's would not have been seen in 1990's Cornwall certainly not on class 1 express services. I would say by then the few left were used on secondary loco hauled services. And most of those, like those on the NWCL were repainted into regional railways livery. Also, the fact they are running without brake coaches which was against regulations makes them even more laughable.

I don't mind the railtours, it gives you a chance to give some older locos a better run out but I have seen those without brake vehicles and many are so short, when did you last see a steam or diesel railtour with five carriages?

Why not create a pool of reskinned loco's (not dirty blue ones) with TPWS fitted so you can create some realistic railtours.

Layers have been very beneficial to the sim but when they are fanciful for some they ruin immersion.

 

Well I agree with that, but I have mentioned it before and have never seen or heard it addressed.

 

Yes I know you and several others here have called for it but we'll just have to keep trying and hope for the best.

 

I say that whenever I buy a lottery ticket!

 

Your preference on layers doesn't define if you're hardcore or not. I own everything currently released on both PC and PS5, I'm generally happy with layers. I'd say I'm a extremely hardcore supporter of TSW. My main complaint with the game is generally with the lacking fps performance on PS5, it's playable but the fps should be on par with XSX, which it's far from it but that's another topic...

 

This is very unfortunate.

Companies have stopped making products that people want and need and now make stuff that will bring them the most amount of money the fastest. They are ok with customers grumbling and complaining (and even provide forums for them to do so) as long as hype and marketing keeps enough of them buying and the coffers full.

I am not a gamer and TSW is the only ‘game’ I really play. AFAIK there aren’t any other rail simulators out there worth playing and since DTG owns both TSW and TSC I just hope they don’t dumb down the simulator experience completely.

 

FUN! Good times! A delightfully whimsical addition! A great way to get more out of my TSW purchases!

In the past, the very vocal "no fun police" portion of the fanbase has complained about something and shifted the direction of DTG's development.

When SEHS came out, the 465 services were being done by 375s. People complained and the response was "in the future we will just leave those services out of the timetable instead of adding the wrong train."

So basically, a person buying the base route gets less content than they would have before. That is a giant negative towards the majority of the player base who don't care or don't know what train actually runs those services. They literally said they would have less stuff to do in the future. Not a good result in my mind.

(A bit of a moot point since the 465 was rolled into the new version of the route, but it was a specific shift in philosophy that meant the "no unrealistic services" people won.)

I think those of us who prefer more gameplay compared to a strict dedication to "realism" need to continue to speak out.

 

Well then surely you wouldn't mind DTG putting the acs 64 on munich augsburg? Perhaps DTG should dump a class 377 on LIRR and maybe add the 1972 stock on the harlem line. Should we also add the ACS 64 on scotrail express as well? Maybe we should add the Amtrak Acela Express on Kassel-Wurzburg? Perhaps even add the DB BR 612 on New York-Trenton. Maybe we should add a gwr class 43 hst on Koln Aachen

 

In other words they can reach everyone and not have to upset anybody if they add a toggle for layers?

 

Yes. Having a option is a win win for everyone

 

Yes, obviously a toggle would be the best solution, but that doesn't seem to be anywhere on the horizon, so we're left with the status quo.

DTG have made concessions to the fun police before (axing the UP SD70 on SPG) when complaints like this get raised, probably because it's an easy way to quiet things down on here.

I'd just hope that since there IS a workaround (temporarily uninstall content that provides unwanted layers), DTG won't be too quick to remove content that others are happy is there and wish to continue enjoying.

 

Imagine a world where we had (easy) access to the timetable & could choose which train serviced a layer.

All we really need is for DTG to give us access to things.

 

You do so, and I will continue to speak up for those of us who want to see more realistic gameplay but also would like those who are not bothered about realistic gameplay to get what they want too.

 

Well, I don't really have a dog in this hunt because, though I play UK routes a lot, my knowledge of which trains run on which routes is very sketchy.

What I do know is that, while you guys worry about too many or the wrong layers on SEHS etc., we US fans are patiently waiting for additional layers on NYT and CJP which should have been there from the get go.

To say that North American fans have been short changed in the last couple of years is a gross understatement.

 

TSW- what does that even mean?

T trains
S simulation
W- World

So it's about a simulated railway world. This includes something more than puristic HUDless driving. If you only want that, you should also find it on the PC and have a lot of fun.
Since TSW is also available for consoles and also depicts a railway world, such gameplay is of course also needed. If that is useless to you, you can do without it.

Can such a simulation always be 100% realistic? What are my expectations of it and why? I'm not a railroader, nor am I an enthusiast. But I like trains and everything around them. And if I feel like I can move in a world of railroads and also drive trains, then that's what I wanted. TSW gives me that.

And of course, when a function is implemented, I expect it to work! And yes, I would like to be able to do more than just drive trains in terms of gameplay. But I'm still missing a few features that would allow me to do that. E.g. Spwaning from one station to the next instead of torturing myself through the menu forever. This would also enable completely new scenarios in the area of maintenance. Certainly more interesting but also more complex than snapping off tickets. So that's still some potential.

In addition, TSW offers various game modes, whereby the quick game and the dynamic weather in particular should be optimized. Until then, it's more of a curse than a blessing. But it could also be different...

Yes, I would like to see more gameplay in TSW and a big hit would be a scenario planner 2.0! With the option of incorporating ready-made scripts. E.g. uncouple here, couple there, secure a level crossing, etc. This would keep the community extremely busy and let off steam really creatively. Instead of an editor, there should definitely be an extended scenario planner.

I also love the idea that new gameplay features will be offered in the upcoming scenarios to see how it works and how it plays out. I think going this route is a good thing.

Until then, TSW will take me into the world of railways. Since I see nothing but drunken and lied. But I also see a lot of potential and that this is desirable. And what use is the best sim if the gameplay falls by the wayside. Then I feel like I'm just using a simulator, but I don't feel like a railroad worker.
Like a lonely HUDless driver who is not at all interested in the world of railways.

I think TSW is on the right track with more gameplay while of course not neglecting the sim! Then it is what it promises.

 

Seems a bit childish to me refusing to buy a route you may have otherwise been interested in simply due to the presence of a couple of scenarios in journey mode. As far as I can tell they are very short (on a short route also)...personally I do not have an issue with that even if I had no interest in guard/photo mode

 

A less hyperbolic layer would be the ICE1 on Boston/NYT.

 

One thing I'm struggling to understand here.

Many people I see are complaining about new features, or the general direction of TSW.

Question is, why do they still play it, if they are becoming increasingly frustrated with the way things are going? Because it doesn't make sense to me.

 

My complaints are twofold. One is that many promised features have never materialised or have come in a water down fashion (scenario editor for one) this is after a lot of money is spent on DLC in the past. Secondly is that those of us who have been train sim players for many years can see the potential that TSW has and that a lot of recent content is lacklustre especially UK stuff. One train routes and thinned down timetables and stations that are desolate despite being some of the busiest in the world. That's not to mention much of the last 50 years of railway ops in the UK being ignored as it doesn't sell.

People speak up because they want to see it do better even if for reasons different to my own. The amount of times now I have spoken to friends with coding experience about combining my ops knowledge to produce something else spurred on by TSWs products not hitting the spot any more.....all that said I still wish DTG well but when something takes a different direction then its maybe time to move on....

 

Fair enough, just trying to see it from both points of view

 

To Jack above (I’m on mobile and forgot to quote) Because it’s actually a better experience than some are willing to admit.

TSW has plenty of issues but I think one of the bigger issues at this point is with the forum community itself.

There’s a lot of players, all with different priorities and some of the ones that stomp their feet and scream the loudest aren’t concerned with the larger community- they’re likely too emotionally attached and only care about getting their own wishes met, even if those wishes would damage the product.

Folks have been hoping for some sort of guard work implemented and they finally got a little 20 minute scenario- the tiniest taste of guard mode we could give those people…

Yet we actually have people here basically saying “no, they can’t have that!” “Do you know who I am? I’m a loyal paying customer! You have to listen to me! I’m the priority here!”

I’m a loyal paying customer. I’ve bought every dlc. If I think something sucks, I’ll say it. However, that doesn’t mean that my feedback is good or valid. It doesn’t mean that I know squat about what goes into coding a layers toggle. It doesn’t make me more important than any other end user.

I think some folks need to realize this. We as a community (and I mean the whole community, not just us in this forum) are important to tsw. We as individuals are not. Feedback is important but stay grounded, don’t let your head get too big, and try to be reasonable.

It takes a BIG village to keep game franchises going, so pandering to a couple of folks who think they’re the priority won’t do the franchise any good. It needs to sustain a healthy amount of growth.

 

I presume you're talking to me?

In any case, of there's something I cannot stand, it's people complaining because a certain feature hasn't been implemented because THEY want it, or the game does not live up to THEIR expectations.

I have this mindset simply because I know people personally who played games, and then simply complained because they don't like what is in said game or its apparent decline (although I am guilty of this in some respects as well).

But, unfortunately, game developers can't please everyone and obviously some people are going to lose out and not be happy. A lose-lose situation for both parties.

 

I agree with the observation that video games need less gameplay.

 

That ran in the 90s in a route that isn't even set in the 90s? Makes no sense and also the ice 1 wouldn't even be able to run on the line unless it was converted

 

Just look to TSW3's initial CG rendered video with rap music to know exactly where DTG's heads were at. Simcade for sure, but left in a beta stage alienating a big chunk of their user base which led to their company's eventual fire sale.

 

Proof that they were sold in a fire sale or is this just more of your fantasy?

 

What firesale dude
Focus doesn’t buy studios to kill them off, they’re not EA. Focus’ acquisitions are a totally different strategy of having a massively diversified portfolio of B tier studios. Focus want to cover all the little niche stuff that EA and company do not.
Dotemu is still doing fine, as are Blackmill and Deck 13… To succeed Focus wants successful subsidiaries and partnerships

 

This poster is always coming up with conspiracy theories, it suits their narrative!

Trouble is the hard of thinking believe it and will then go and spread these theories around the internet and then they become fact.

 

More gameplay in a video game?? Down with that sort of thing!!

I am said "casual player" of this game, and I don't really focus on the simulation side of things. To me, TSW is just another one of those games where you can listen to something else at the same time with in-game volume down to a minimum but just enough to hear AWS.

Surely, more gameplay would give a better and more rounded experience to players than being stuck in the past on Train Simulator Classic with its PlayStation 2 graphics and that ridiculous HUD? If guard mode was done properly rather than the half-baked attempt on the Glossop DLC, it could actually be quite decent rather than the current selective ticket checks and such.

Finally, and on a slight side note. When it comes to suggestions by casual players, I do notice a certain attempt by some to invalidate them because of a lack of knowledge about rail, route, or purely because of location. Some will instantly dismiss it as if they think they are an authority in the community, not to mention the "more info please" brigade who could actually contribute to a suggestion if someone wants a route but doesn't know all the details. Thankfully, I have seen some who understand the definition of the word 'community' and helped out with those who aren't train enthusiasts.

 

It would probably solve many of these issues if layers were selectable, like mastery awards are selectable. A grand idea for TSW4.

The original SEHS is a very informing case. I didn't like that the 375 would run the otherwise missing 465 services. However, I ALSO didn't want to see an empty timetable where those services should have been. Just another player that is too hard to please, I guess. Except, DTG eventually solved the problem by releasing SEHS extended. It just took more time. So, the other way for DTG to address this would be to make more complete DLC in the first place, taking more time and releasing less DLC overall but charging more. I don't know if that would be a popular move, but it is not the way things are currently in any case.

 

Brilliant post! Well said!! Round of Applause.

Wise words indeed. Thank you.

 

I have seen some individuals during my time on this forum who would put themselves forward as the representative of the TS community and will shoot down people's suggestions because THEY do not want it. I also see others who will do similar things if different people post a perceived unpopular suggestion several times within a short period of time, and a prime example of this is the Marshlink Line between Hastings and Ashford International. People were literally asking "Why do people keep suggesting this??"... Maybe think beyond your own little world and consider there is a demand for it.

I have had people shoot me down because I post a suggestion that has significance to me, and I feel that it would be a good addition to the game for all. One person responded to the effect that "Dovetail won't make a DLC just for you" when I had expressed why I wanted the route. I am sure for most that the routes we post have some significance to us, otherwise, we wouldn't post them.

The people who annoy me the most on here I dub the "more info please brigade", who I feel have the least sense of community other than those I mentioned in the previous paragraph. They don't seem to realise that a lot of people who play TS are not enthusiasts (including myself) and will not carry the same knowledge as someone who stands at East Croydon station spotting trains for 5 hours every week. I do see people who will post the name of a line and maybe a picture of the train, and they probably do not know anything more about it before the vultures fly in with "more info please, more info please", whereas they could be more productive and assist with the suggestion.

 

I haven't watched the stream yet. That does sound positive though.

 

Google is your friend or even wikipedia to some extent. It's not difficult to find info unless it's a route that is really secluded and unknown that there is no info on it. But some info is very possible to obtain. Plus if the route exists in tsc, could use the steam description for it.

 

I just hope they do something like that soon if they are gonna add trains on routes that wouldn't run on a line in real life.

At least my question was answered

 

I won't do that. I think it's valuable feedback if I'm not interested in X suggestion because of Y reason.

 

If a person posts a suggestion, then another person can say why they wouldn't want that route in the game. It's good feedback as well for dtg so they can see if this is a route that the community is interested in. Some people can also ask for more info if the suggestion is vague and want to know more information on the route to see if it is a route that they may be interested in. There is nothing wrong with that