I Got Rid Of The Mini Hud Again…

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by TimTri, Oct 17, 2023.

  1. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I was very optimistic about the Mini HUD when it was first revealed. The current HUD is quite huge and contains lots of information you almost never need, so I figured a completely new HUD would be a good thing. I immediately switched to it at launch and used it for a few weeks, but today I went back to my old settings and now I’m enjoying TSW a lot more again.

    Why?
    • Readability. This is the main one. Matt stated that everyone always only looked at the HUD speedometer, so they completely removed it. The issue now is that you’ve still got to get your speed info from somewhere. And the in-cab cameras are not designed to make your speed easily readable at all. In some trains, the in-cab speedo is incredibly small, or you’ve just got a digital number display to work with and no gauge. Essentially, instead of looking at a big speedo in the HUD, you’re now looking at some small in-cab display or a microscopic gauge with indiscernible values. For me personally, this induced significant eye strain and it was just a very unpleasant experience on 80% of the trains. It’s so much more relaxing to just see a proper speedometer gauge as part of the HUD instead of trying to stare at a pixelated number in the cab. Having a proper gauge makes finding just the right throttle/brake settings on inclines easier as well.
    • Freedom. With the mini HUD, you can’t cruise around in the external cam anymore without risking a speeding penalty. And you can’t leave the driver’s seat for prolonged periods of time because there’s no HUD clock that lets you keep track of the time anymore.

    The mini HUD comes with increased realism, but it makes the game a lot more uncomfortable if you’re just trying to have a good and relaxed time.
    So perhaps, if you’re not having the best time and just wondering why TSW isn’t as fun and relaxing as it used to be, maybe turn that good old normal HUD back on again!

    I’m curious to hear your thoughts. I know that many were skeptical about the mini HUD from the beginning. And for those of you who have been using it, do you want to stay with it or switch back to the normal one?
     
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  2. Myron

    Myron Well-Known Member

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    I use the normal one and turned off the speedometer with crtl+5 because I can read cab elements just fine
     
  3. fatnslo#7264

    fatnslo#7264 Member

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    I love the new mini HUD and feel it has breathed new life into the game for me. I have had no issues reading the in-cab dash which is far more immersive than that giant HUD speedometer. Just needs a distance to next stop countdown and or a dynamic next signal/speed line that shows farther ahead based on your speed.
     
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  4. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Mini hud makes me pay attention a lot more and I feel more present in the cab, instead of using the hud I’m actually reading in gauges in the train to do adjustments to throttle and brake even if the speedometer and other gauges are small on some trains. Instead of reading signals from the hud I’m actually looking out into the route, this also means (much like real drivers) I’m not immediately speeding up when my signal goes from red to yellow, I’m waiting until I can actually see it for myself. The overall increase in immersion is worth it for me, plus it de-clutters the screen. I still enjoy tsw (even if pzb catches me for not focusing).

    I also think design-wise the mini hud looks better, the digital numbers are gone, the colour is nice and it’s just pleasant to look at overall.

    I’m not switching back to the old hud any time soon, tbh it would feel like cheating now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
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  5. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    Mini hud wasn’t really my thing so I’ve just kept with the TSW3 style (small not large though)

    I did try to do away with having AP display on the screen but everything moves up to the top right corner if you do that, and ends up leaving my eye level line of sight, so it’s been put back on for a while now.

    whilst the last time I checked I couldn’t get rid of the 1.25m look ahead signals and speed (bug) , so that stays, and is still useful for quick speed changes after other speed changes, it does however mean I have 4 things up their now (TSW3 was 3 things, next signal, next speed, AP) so if anything my screen is more cluttered than before.

    I have other issues with the 1.25m look ahead signals and speed but there isn’t any good fitting alternative for me.
     
  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it just make more sense for DTG to do what other games do and allow the players to customize the hud themselves such as making sections larger, smaller, removing some elements or moving some parts of the hud? Player hud customization would solve some of the problems players have with the hud. It makes no sense that a game in 2023 doesn't have that as an option when countless other big and small games do
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
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  7. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    I turned off the mini HUD and have disabled the speedometer on the old HUD.

    Works a lot better for me.
     
  8. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    It would make sense, but doesn't look like we'll be seeing it any time soon.

    I think it has been mentioned as being an option before though (don't quote me on that).
     
  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Mini HUD is okay apart from no speedo and objective distance. However after playing TSC yesterday evening and switching to the F3 HUD rather than the more intrusive F4, I do feel it should be repositioned at the bottom rather than the top of the screen, or give us the option to move and resize. Essentially it should be a box similar to how MSTS and Open Rails handle HUD elements, rather than fixed to the main driving view.
     
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  10. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy it overall. I hate having a HUD speedo and AP bar, so I always had them turned off via keyboard inputs anyway. One thing that bothers me though is the “barber pole” distance counter. It’s no problem on German routes where I can easily compensate with the more immersive book timetables often created by the community. But on UK routes I don’t know as well that don’t allow for intuitive driving anyways (no clear marking of the kilometres/miles as on German routes) I struggle a bit. Also, it makes shunting more difficult because of its imprecision. TSW often has you stop in random places (like 30m behind a signal instead of at any point after clearing the signal). It’s difficult to account for TSW’s whims.

    If it wasn’t for the gradient indicator, I’d probably use my custom standard HUD again (only distance to next station and upcoming speed limit displayed), but the gradient indicator gives me info I could feel more easily in real life and helps with route learning and PZB calculations (i need to know the precise gradients i’m facing to determine the top speed of my train). The jury’s still out for me.
     
  11. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    I also think the mini hud helps and encourages actual route learning. For example, ecml is particularly hard because of the distances between station and the high speeds but doing multiple journeys over it has helped me make and recognise some braking points, I’m still leaning to approach Newark from Doncaster but I’ve gotten the hang of approaching Grantham from both ends now.
     
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  12. Pterodaustro

    Pterodaustro Active Member

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    I'd like a HUD which lets you choose which elements you want to see, which is about half the size of the mini HUD and which you can place where you want it on the screen. I like to use the loco's own instruments as far as possible, but as a player rather than a real driver, I don't have the weeks of route learning or the driver's paper schedule available, so the HUD compensates for that.
     
  13. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Well-Known Member

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    I use the old hud with speedo off. I would have the track monitor off too if I had the power too...

    Speaking of- (I know this has been raised already) stations! Bung them on the track monitor. Also scale it with speed like in TSC, the TM is pointless on routes like Bakerloo as signals appear on top of each other. A few hundred yards would do it. Maybe scale to 1.5 the current brake distance assuming level?
     
  14. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I was think about the same exact solution. HUD should be fully customizable so anyone could on/off any part of it, scale it and place it on the screen whenever you like. It would be a perfect solution.
     
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  15. StormFront345

    StormFront345 Member

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    On Xbox I find you can’t zoom close enough. I can’t always make out an accurate enough speed. Maybe this might be a good time to look at a bigger TV.
     
  16. steveownzzz#6107

    steveownzzz#6107 Well-Known Member

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    I run mini hud with no AP points and I remove the objective marker for routes I’ve learned. I like being forced to use in-cab equipment.
     
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  17. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

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    To me, the readability of the speedometer (and small numbers in general) is largely dependent on the resolution scaling. For example in the ICE 3, reading the speedometer with 100% scaling is unpleasnt but doable. 150% scaling makes it more comfortable and 200% makes an almost indistinguishable difference over that.

    Here it's a little comparison of an ICE 3 speedometer fully zoomed out on a 1080p screen.
    Resolution Scaling.png
     
  18. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    HUD changes still incoming, no date yet, as soon as I have a screenshot to share i'll stick it in a roadmap article :) Should include everything that's been brought up just about in this and other threads.
     
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  19. Scott295

    Scott295 Well-Known Member

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    That's good to hear. I want to use the mini-hud but until it includes current speed its a non-starter for me.
     
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  20. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    That sounds great, Matt!
     
  21. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Well-Known Member

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    Good we can choose the HUD we like, I find the minimal HUD a good step towards realistic driving and concentrating more on the route itself and your cab displays. The full normal HUD makes you dumb and doesn't help learning at all imho.

    The barber pole helps you to memorize landmarks instead of staring at the HUD.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
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  22. RobertSchulz

    RobertSchulz Well-Known Member

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    I started to drive without HUD elements a few weeks after I got TSW and once I understood the mechanics to a decent and sufficient level. I still learn and experience new hurdles and issues on the route everytime I drive on it, but I don't like any help and just have the real experience.

    Of course, it requires you to have an in-depth knowledge of the routes you drive on and have no issues with reading the sometimes just so tiny cab elements, and of course its subject to one's own taste and mood, but at least for me it's like Marvin Gaye said

    "Ain't nothing like the real thing, baby!"

    I'm actually surprised how many players use a HUD (whether minimal or old TSW3 one), even experienced people. I thought that we HUDless players do exist quite in a bigger amount here.

    However, and to this I can understand everyone playing with HUD, there are some issues when you play without it. A few (for the work of the service almost mandatory) notices and informations are missing, which makes it a bit of a struggle to play in this way.

    For example, I have no idea when a brake/traction lock happens without the HUD, showing the gear square in red. There is no light or anything else in the cab which gives a clue about this state (at least not and as far as I'm aware of in most trains). Of course, If I am an experienced driver I know the brakes usually are locked if I increase power and have no brakes applied but the train continues to slow down.

    Also some PZB magnets (especially the ones belonging to "on-ground" signals) are hard to see and you get a forced brake (Zwangsbremsung) because you didn't noticed it.

    A lot of people mentioning the "no time display" issue just like OP did, however - although I would like to have a standalone clock element too - I just use the pause menu to get the current time within the service.

    What with I have a lot bigger problem (and this is something lately proposed in the suggestion forum) a signal or information (in audible form or just as a separate HUD element) when passenger loading is completed. We have the "objective completed" tones, when the doors are locked and we are ready to drive off to the next station, but there is no signal after the 30 seconds are past and we can close the doors.

    Which forces me to either wait longer than I need to (and thus delay my service time), count the 30 seconds up (which is really annoying) or again have to turn on the HUD to see it. That's really annoying and because its on every station and everytime you board new passengers, it's so frustrating when you play without HUD.

    However I agree to what tallboy said
    Personal costumization of HUD elements would provide a reasonable way to enhance the player experience to one's own needs and necessaries.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
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  23. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I drive with No Hud since TSW came ever out. Route learning, Walkarounds etc, i really can recommend this to everybody since its a whole new experience. You rather use your brain than just looking on Hud for the next speed / signal aspects

    Also no Hud is like a "hardcore mode", which gives same as IRL 0 mistake tolerance.
     
  24. sunscreen#8305

    sunscreen#8305 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. Robert has hit the nail on the head though. We need some kind of audio cue that passenger loading is complete. Otherwise playing truly hudless is not as immersive as it could be.
     
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  25. RobertSchulz

    RobertSchulz Well-Known Member

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    The main and underlying problem is that the entired passenger boarding mechanism is unrealistic. IRL you don't stop at a station to always wait for a fixed amount of time to have been completed and go on with your ride (at least not for non-rush hour timetables in metropole areas).

    Either 1. you wait for anyone (which the driver or attendant sees) to get in or out and thus have a dynamic stop time based on the traffic at time and location (yes hard to do for a game but worth to mention) or 2. wait until the signal lets you pass, or 3. have (on some country routes f.e.) non-mandatory stops, where the driver only stops when he is aware of someone wanting out or in at that station.

    But that's a complete different conversation to talk about.

    I don't necessarily want and need a change in the stop/passenger boarding mechanism on its own, as this would require a lot more complex programming - although it would be cool and realisitic -. However, all we just need is an indication when to close the doors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
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  26. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Well-Known Member

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    That will be one of the OMG LOOK! "features" of TSW5 next year, just like it took them a whole new game to change the highlighter from grey to white, something that should have been easily fixable via a simple patch.

    I still don't understand how that was seen as a good, readable function, and that no-one at DTG pointed out that's not how highlighted things work in almost every other game ever.
     
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