I Played Sehs Early Through A Steam Console Trick, I Am Not Amused

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by nielsmallant100, Feb 2, 2021.

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  1. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Do you really think people will be grateful for rushed, unfinished, reused and expensive products by DTG ahahahaha. SEHS is the perfect example. The route clearly needs a lot more work on the sounds and the 375 is a copy paste of the 377. However the route is good in my opinion, but only needs more work on the sounds in my opinion
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    People are welcome to comment on whatever they wish. DTG don't have to respond as they haven't released it yet, even if people have managed to get hold of it via a known backdoor.
     
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  3. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Won’t everyone who got the route last night have to pay for it again on Thursday?
     
  4. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    Off the top of my head, it ruins the anticipation that people have looking forward to playing it. It can also hurt sales if people cancel their orders before it is released.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  5. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Which is it, good (but only needs more work on the sounds), or rushed, unfinished, reused and expensive?

    I sincerely think some people can manage to be thankful in every situation, and they're probably better off for it.
     
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  6. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Because they all want to be disappointed together at the same time! :D
     
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  7. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I think this is an interesting topic for another thread. However, only DTG will know exactly what did or did not go wrong.

    However, I think the level of scrutiny on such a distinctive route will always be considerably more than other routes.

    No. Basically SteamCMD allows you to download DLC purchases early via a command line interface. It requires you to own the DLC for it to work and has no impact on your eligibility. I'm unsure if it's against ToS, however haven't done it myself.
     
  8. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    I can't make a draw for you to understand but my point was people will never be grateful for DTG's work because their products are unfinished, reused and rushed(not all, but the majority). I give you the M3 as an example, it should never be released. Talking about sehs the only negative point, in my opinion, are the sounds and reused aspects... Did YoU UnDeRsTaNd??
     
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  9. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I think some people are forgetting all the positives about this route , I can’t wait to play it on Thursday
     
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  10. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Reused in itself isn't a bad thing, however when a buggy product is reused it then becomes a problem!
     
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  11. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    You missed the point, the first quote is from one of the preview streams, if it’s that bad, why go to the trouble of a) pre-ordering it and b) going to the trouble of getting it early.

    If you don’t like it, vote with your wallet in future.
     
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  12. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Reused products are a problem in this game in a way that we pay full price for them it's ridiculous... They charge products like it has new features and etc but it's full of reused aspects that they charge 30€. If they didn't do that i would accept a bit the full price
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  13. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    I supposed I was confused since you said "SEHS is the perfect example." But now I UnDeRsTaNd that you were generally speaking of other DLC, not SEHS.

    (Thanks for offering to draw something! Can it be a train? I will make a spot for it on my refrigerator!)

    The majority of the people, or the majority of the DLC? (I'm sure I understood what you actually meant, bud.)
     
  14. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    as I said I don't care about the money, I rarely refund stuff
     
  15. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    if we just told DTG what we did like then their products would never improve, the goal of my posts, contrary to what many here might want to believe, is to result in DTG updating or releasing a better product.
     
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  16. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    You know, that pane of glass suspiciously looks like a pane of glass I previously saw in a different DLC.

    And the paint, maybe they just used what was left over from their last DLC?

    Now I'm even wondering if the upholstery is new!
     
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  17. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    But then they would know what to put on other routes to make them better
     
  18. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    let me just ask if its not the release build how does the achivements work to unlock?
     
  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The language of your posts says otherwise :
    • I am not amused.
    • Littered with bugs
    • I don't care...
    • Why is the horrible camera position...
    If someone was saying those things to me I wouldn't be thinking "constructive criticism"
     
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  20. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    I'd like to balance out some of the negativity in this thread. And believe me I'll be the first to call out things I don't like. But since SEHS isn't released yet, I don't think it's fair to heap criticism on it before the vast majority of players are even able to get it. We're not game journalists and streamers given a review copy early. We're just impatient players who thought outside of the box and dug under the hood. The problems currently in SEHS are ones we saw in the stream. They weren't secrets. Those of us who saw the streams knew what they were and took a chance that they wouldn't be fixed at release. That's the price of pre-ordering. Do I like loud trains? of course. But if a train is quiet because it's modern, electric, has an insulated cab, and has no motors in the end cars, then so be it. If that's how it is, I want to experience it like that. I use sound mods over stock DTG sounds anyway when available. I found the route to be quite a bit of fun. I passed on LGV and will wait for a deep sale on that because of lack of real replayability and the scenery after Aix en Provence so this is my first time with TVM and power changeovers. It's so much fun and the scenery is nice. Does DTG have their flaws with being slow to return to problems in DLC releases at times? Yes, not going to deny or excuse them from that. But it's also a huge step forward that they actually began working on implementing suggestions immediately between the 1st and 2nd stream, and they came right out saying they couldn't get sound fixes done before scheduled release (there comes a point where you are too close to a release to be able to delay it) and they'd be following shortly behind in a patch. Colonel Failure (can never remember his actual name) even got on Matt throughout the second stream to add issues they identified to Matt's list of things to investigate. I'm not going to be so cynical as to suggest that was acted for our benefit. Before, nothing was fixed or promised to be fixed between streams and release and route fixes didn't come until the next general game update. There's progress here. DTG put in extra labor to try to improve things on our suggestions. I don't see this route as being so bad it should've been delayed and I'd be content waiting for a patch or a mod, whichever comes first. On release day, blast all the love or hate for the route you have with no filter. I have nothing against using the CMD as I did it to and accept its legitimacy, but it's a low blow to use that exploit to come out and neg a build that staff can't or won't confirm is final, especially in that tone. Most of what you complained about was addressed in the stream already. You can't just pull a release less than a week out without good reason. It probably is final, but better to wait for release and let players either risk it with a preorder or day one purchase or do their due diligence and wait for reviews and let's plays to come in. Stuff like this is what's going to drive DTG to find a way to prevent this such as eliminating preorders or not submitting unlocked builds to Steam, and if that happens, you won't hear the end of it from those of us who look forward to this.
     
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  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is shocking the amount of people who think the game is so rubbish and that DTG are equivalent to a dodgy used car sales person and yet still keep buying the latest releases!
     
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  22. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    As opposed to you and the other usual suspects, who constantly say, and excuse me I may be paraphrasing here but here goes:
    "Hey DTG we don't care what sort of dog toffee you turn out please take our money regardless!"
     
  23. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Ah, the age old tactic of getting personal with someone who makes a statement... I don't think I have ever said that I will buy something I consider genuinely broken or in my opinion unplayable, but given I don't speak that way there wouldn't be an instance of that.
    I have also made my own points on what I feel falls below standard, is outright wrong, could do with changing, and so on, but what I don't see the need for is language that lambasts others or tried to make personal points when the request is about a computer generated asset in a game

    But hey, you do you. Other people get to read this forum and can make their own opinions on which of us is making a point, and which of us is making personal attacks
     
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  24. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    It is pretty disappointing to hear what happened with Heavy Freight - 3 weeks? Really, with no changes?

    People were asking about that for ages - where is it? when is it out? Presumably while others were already playing it and while it was sat there ready to be played. I sometimes wonder if the release scheduler is into astrology or somesuch mumbo-jumbo as it would at least provide an explanation...

    To cover another point above about shiny rails, to get this you need to use FXAA and 200% screen size, which is what Matt uses on stream. I tried it on my laptop and got 5fps :)
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I wonder this sometimes... OK you cannot release a 2Kb patch (don't know if that's all platforms, but it's what they said on stream several times) but withholding updates until they can release a more major one does mean we have to wait, for some unnecessarily.
    I have an unlimited 350Mbps cable internet connection at home so downloading 6Gb per day wouldn't phase me. Of course for others that WOULD cause a problem. My heart bleeds it really does. Still...
     
  26. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    This thread is really disappointing to read and I'm not talking about the reviews. Can't people just be patient and wait like the majority of everyone else? You know a secret or trick? Good for you but don't spoil it for everyone else. I actually hope DTG stop preorders from now on so everyone has to wait till official release dates. "it's only a few days befo-" that's not the point, legal or not I feel it completely ruins the anticipation and excitement and now that its already filling up with negative reviews it makes the publicly accessible release completely underwhelming. I really hope this doesn't happen again now more people know how to access DLC early.
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's not about pre-orders. DTG have to upload the software a few days previous to Steam (and probably the other stores) so those stores can then do pre-release testing of their systems. This means that when a few thousand people hit "Buy" at midnight Thursday it doesn't error or crash their systems
    The "backdoor" here is a Steam one, nothing to do with DTG and nothing DTG can do to stop it without involving heavy legal actions which may, in the long term, harm DTG's relationship with Steam, so I don't think it's worth that
     
  28. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    It is about pre-orders. Without pre-ordering the product you have no licence to use it, and therefore can't download it from Steam, before release or not.
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I guess, there are ways though even if then the argument of "illegal" would be true.
    Not sure WHEN the license purchased becomes valid if the software has yet to be officially released so that's a point on the "legality issue"
     
  30. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Without a licence there is no way to download a depot from Steam, it's pretty well protected on that front.
     
  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Hence going onto the second part of my response. If the license is only active from the official release of the product then it shouldn't allow downloads until 6PM on 4th Feb, when the product is released.
    Just spitballing

    Anyway, people DO have it, and if they want to trash other people's expectations that's up to them. We already know that there are issues from the two official DTG streams so what they're saying comes as no surprise to me
     
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  32. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Likewise, although on Xbox it's slightly annoying that the full .pak has to be downloaded for an update. Of course, there's nothing stopping DTG using a beta branch for those that want immediate updates.
     
  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well since the inception of Railworks going onto steam I have never seen anyone pontificating about playing a new DLC early, until yesterday when someone was proudly showing of SEHS on a Facebook TSW page. Unless people generally keep quiet about it. I did wonder how they had come across it as the person would not explain how, certainly the posting yesterday appeared to be a ego boosting exercise.

    Not sure that just because you can do this, you should do so, certainly not tell everyone on a public forum that you are.
     
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  34. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    It's not a new method, I don't see how so much fuss has come up over it because of KHS. A number of previous DLCs have also has the ability to play early via the same method, the worst case as mentioned before being the NTP Heavy Freight pack, where you could get it multiple weeks before official release, with no update in that time.
     
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  35. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    still don't know why people are denying that what we are playing is the release version lmao.
     
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  36. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance was bliss. The real shock is that the method has been shared on the publisher’s site!
     
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  37. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    It’s difficult to take what you say seriously when you “lmao.”
     
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  38. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    This thread has taken a turn and has descended into little more than arguments. Please watch your tone. You are allowed to disagree with points being made but try to avoid making it personal.

    As much as it is not against the rules to download a route before the release through SteamDB it is not something we encourage or recommend for a few reasons.

    We provide early access to new routes to those who regularly make videos on the game, and they are given a date that they are not allowed to publish their videos before. This is not to stop pre release criticism, we don't want our video makers to feel like they are against the clock. This is to give them equal opportunity to release at the same time rather than rush to be the first one out. This is also true for any professional reviewers we send the game to.

    It is therefore a little unfair on those who are playing by these rules and rely on being able to cover things early if they are being beaten to the punch by people who have edited files in order to get early access they haven't specifically been granted.

    It is also quite possible that in grabbing a route before any associated update that comes with it, you run the risk of breaking your local installation if an additional update is required alongside the route. As you know already Train Sim World can be a little temperamental and therefore avoiding things that could make it misbehave is advisable.

    Generally what we upload a few days before launch, is a release candidate.
    This may or may not require an update before releasing. The benefit to us uploading this candidate early is that it allows us to avoid possible delays on launch day. Historically we have uploaded on launch day and have occasionally encountered problems. Providing the release candidate early allows us to prevent these problems.

    In summary we can't stop you doing it, but we don't like it :)

    As many of you are aware from the most recent stream, we will also be giving the route another patch after its release. This is unlikely to be a day one patch but it will further improve the route.
     
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  39. Yorkshirelad

    Yorkshirelad Member

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    Care to explain NTP BR freight pack ?, that had zero changes.
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Different topic, start a new thread rather than hijacking
     
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  41. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your response Natster, much appreciated!
     
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  42. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Problem is nobody edited any files, its official Steam console feature. I agree with you that its not nice if peoples start posting how wrong is the route if they got it earlier. As many of the users know that they can use that console i never see that much posts here about that, dont understand why the users are now so crazy about that.

    What is important to wrote is, that the .pak file (DLC) dont have to work properly as its design for DLC folder and not for different folders so it can happened that the game dont see some files from the pak. Nice example is 3 weeks waiting BR Freight Pack, where many users try to get it and then they discovered that timetable is broken (but it wasnt, its just how is the .pak file loaded by the game). So the route can look like that and there can be some real mistakes or it can be just that .pak problem that its not in DLC folder (the game will see that file when its unlocked on Steam). So many of you who post hates, and showed some mistakes on the route should just wait until the release as this can be just folder problem (i wish it is :D ) Before release its not really fair to blame DTG that the DLC is broken.

    Dont see any post about BR Freight Pack before release like that: are you kidding DTG, the timetable mod is broken, what i can see is only one loco there ... so guys calm down, relax and wait with reviews for release time - nobody can stop you post reviews right after the release if the .pak is the same and the DLC looks the same. Until that you can enjoy the route if you own it and dont just post bad stuff about it until its released and its 100% sure that its not just that folder mistake - in that time you can refund it if you dont really like it.
     
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  43. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Then be mature and don’t buy it... this ceaseless complaining is ridiculous. If you think the company releases products in a rushed manner, unfinished and a rehash of previously released work and you continue to purchase from them, you are being foolish.
     
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  44. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    that doesn't really discredit what he's saying
     
  45. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Please can these improvements be added to the roadmap? The LGV Crocodile is in the works, but also doesn't appear on the roadmap. It would be good if the roadmap could be all encompassing.
     
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Or choosing to ignore them!
     
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  47. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Yep
     
  48. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    This is what I do not understand at all.

    This SteamCMD nonsense is not new at all, it has been done before.as I have said many times already.

    When people first got access to the FGW HST Liveries for GWE by some miracle pretty much nobody had complained about the fact that it was "illegal" or "unfair". Even the dev team at DTG said that you can use this at your own risk, and were there any penalties/consequences involved? Not that I can see.

    I've seen for myself people getting early access to WSR & the BR Heavy Freight Pack for PC BEFORE its official release date, so why at this point in time with SEHS just several hours away from release complaining that what people are doing is "unfair" and "dodgy", it literally does not make sense to me.

    Sure it may be the case that the hype built up around the route was high (as with any new route) but lets be honest we've all seen the teaser shots as well as being given TWO streams about SEHS within a period of a week, and to be brutally honest the route does not look that great, especially with that very dull lighting.

    If people want to get early access to a DLC via some very easy coding then by all means they are easily able to do it under their own risk, nobody should really endorse it, but as long as it's not an illegal method I don't see what is wrong with it.

    My suggestion is, if that people are not happy with how people have gotten access to content early, don't watch any of the streams or videos regarding SEHS, and just try it for yourself once it actually releases on the 4th. At least then you wont be given spoilers as to what you will expect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  49. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean that this DLC also has bugs is being sold unfinished and will only be finished in the next few weeks or months? Then I prefer to wait and see
     
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What's being complained about (IMO) is that they're scotching peoples anticipation and enjoyment of an upcoming release. Of course having a pre-release copy facilitates this scotching so that comes into it, but it's mainly the scotching that's at issue

    Of course DTG already did this twice anyway, but people here do like to complain
     
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