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I'm Really Disappointed

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Ralph, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. Ralph

    Ralph New Member

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    I'm actually pretty disappointed. It was promised at the start that an editor for the TSW is available. This is still not there today, now you have to buy a new TSW2 to get a customized editor. I think the TSW had potential, why do you have to buy a new one now?
     
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  2. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    same old BS from DTG. This is legally false advertisement
     
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  3. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    Same buddy, same... That and the fact that all the FAQ's and everything else is written in such a manner, you almost think a lawyer wrote all of the text, in a way to omitt strong words that could hint at words like "Buying" or phrases like "Not working with new features". It's sad that 3 years after the "New Gen" simulator you have to buy the "New New Gen" simulator that still doesnt have half the features the former version ought to be having by now....
     
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  4. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    TSW2020 UE 4.16
     
  5. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - all posts must be in English only]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2020
  6. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    Fool me once...
     
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  7. ASRGT

    ASRGT Active Member

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    I will give a really overblown example:
    A restaurant claims it has the best pizza in the world, you go there and find it no better than your local take out place in fact its worse, are they liable for false advertisement? considering you only went there to try the best pizza in the world ?

    Answer: No, under most consumer law these wildly exaggerated, fanciful or vague claims are not subject to false Advertisement laws, the law views that you as a consumer are smart enough to understand and not treat them as serious claims.

    So after 30 minutes of looking back at old dev blogs ect i cant really find anywhere that they promised that these functions would be in the game only references that they would like to have them or where working on them, however the admittance of working on them does not equal promised in the arena of law. So while we as gamers and consumers of the product are more than entitled to feel a bit put out by all this I don't honestly feel its a an argument about it been lawful.
     
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  8. saint.russian

    saint.russian Member

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    afaik, in this "pizza" example it would not be false advertisement because they are presenting "best in the world" as their personal opinion. IF some company named X claims they "have a route editor as one of the features" of the product, but actually don't than that is false advertisement.
     
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  9. Ralph

    Ralph New Member

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    It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't said again and again that you are working on the editor. You could have said yes, nothing will work with the editor. At least then you would not be so upset. But to say now that it only works with a new TSW2 is shameful for me. Thats my problem and i am will be waiting if the Editor really avaibile and i will see how it works
     
  10. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    So the argument is that all Dovetail did was mention a whole bunch of features that it knew people would want from the day TSW was first announced with the clear implication that they would be added as it was developed but didn't actually promise them? Frankly I don't care if it's legal or not (though I suspect there would be a sound legal argument if anyone were to test it) because that's not really the point. Adultery is legal. There are plenty of behaviours that are legal but immoral, reprehensible or just plain sneaky and if an individual behaves in such ways they start losing friends and even family. If a business adopts such behaviour it loses customers.

    Many TSW users have been using Train Simulator for years and get its updates as a matter of course (including the upgrade to 64 bit which was huge, completely unexpected and something that a few people have said that they would have been willing to pay for). Is it really so unreasonable to expect TSW to follow the same model especially when it has apparently been following that model since launch and all the talk of future development has implied (even if it hasn't explicitly promised) that this is the case?
     
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  11. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    I honestly don't give a damn about it being legally false advertisement or not. I feel betrayed and I lost all joy in playing this game. Therefore that's all that matters to me. DTG have lost a customer that cares deeply about the Train world
     
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  12. ASRGT

    ASRGT Active Member

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    I'm not making an argument or taking a defensive stance on or for DTG its not for me to do so, I am in the same boat now waiting to see why i would put more money into another version of the game. I am simply pointing out that going off half cocked about legalities is not really what the discussion should be about and is frankly just a little silly.

    Like you said its about expectations, to be frustrated or upset is perfectly reasonable based on the expectations you or any user personally had or has especially as we wait for more information as to why and what this change will really bring. We also have limited information and if anything poor messaging around why what this change really affords other than a short non informative spiel that was given.

    Not exactly sure why you felt I was saying your not entitled to any of the above. I mean i did state it originally "So while we as gamers and consumers of the product are more than entitled to feel a bit put out by all this I don't honestly feel its a an argument about it been lawful" as you point out you don't care if its legal or not so.... we agree it should not be a discussion about legality ;).
     
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  13. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    They could very easily allow a free upgrade from Train Sim World to Train Sim World 2 on PC, much like other games such as Mafia 2 have upgraded from the original to a new remastered engine version.

    Even if it was a totally different game, which it isn't because clearly it's still Unreal Engine, just updated, they could do this.

    I don't know for sure about consoles but I imagine it's likely they offer developers similar upgrade paths.

    The only reason they're charging you again is to make more money. DTG are greedy as sin, that's a fact.
     
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  14. Sumit

    Sumit Member

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    I will pass this untill UE5, an editor and Steam Locomotives.
     
  15. Mikey_9835

    Mikey_9835 Well-Known Member

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    DTG should have never mentioned the editor until is was ready, loose lips sink ships.
     
  16. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Almost from the time TSW was released, if not before, they were getting calls for details about the editor and when it would appear. Not talking about the editor was not an option.
     
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  17. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. I do not recall any "promise" of an editor. LOL And how does "betrayed" fit into all this? This is becoming comical.
     
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  18. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

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    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/passenger-information-screen-and-p-a.2486/#post-15784

    Like I said multiple times: they are abusing the fact, that there is no competition/alternative in Train Simulation. All of this is just a big punch to the face to anyone who has been here since the beginning expecting promised features to be added in the future. I'm just disgusted by their actions and am even more disgusted by the rather positiv feedback from the community. Anyone who is buying this piece of trash called TSW2 is part of the Problem.
     
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  19. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    Maybe there was no explicit promise, but there was always implicated intention to provide an editor. Some of us knew it'd never happen. Like it or not, that stuff influences purchasing decisions. Even if you put the editor aside, people purchased this product expecting it to be supported in the long term and now it's being dropped before it was ever really finished. Heck, it still calls itself TSWPrototype. And Lord knows it's a buggy, unoptimized mess at times that we now know will never be fixed. That alone is bad enough.

    Being forced to pay for the game engine all over again for an incremental engine update to fix the problems DTG should have foreseen in the first place is the comical issue. Why are we paying for the fact they failed to properly plan for Steam locos? Why should we pay for the fact that they've built themselves into a corner with the decisions they made with the current version? If they want to charge people for the new content, and benefits that come with it, great. But why the TSW2 engine with the "legacy" content isn't available for people to use for free as they do with literally every other release, nobody knows.

    And there's no genuinely clear answer to that either. Except they're greedy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  20. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    As I read it your comment was your understanding of Dovetail's position which is fair enough- we're all interested in this topic and trying to get a clear understanding of it. I believe our understanding is much the same actually- perhaps I'm a little quicker or more inclined to take issue with that position. I used argument in the sense that you were presenting a point of view rather than being in any way antagonistic (and I hope the same could be said of me). We are both, indeed we are all in the same boat. I also agree about the last point realistically because is anyone going to get the law involved over 25 quid? Secondly if by some far-fetched turn of events this did go to court somehow I'm pretty sure that everybody would lose.

    I don't recall saying that nor, rereading the post, do I see where you might have read that into it.

    Speaking personally after keeping an eye on TSW since launch I thought a few months ago that there are a couple of interesting routes, there'll be more coming and the whole thing is only going to get better so it was the time to stump up and take a look. And now I hear there won't be more routes, there won't be any of the promised (OK- much talked about and heavily implied but maybe not explicitly promised) features, it's not going to get better. This vexes me.
     
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  21. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    Exactly, I was expecting this game to be supported with new content for years to come. Now people are in the position of having to pay for a whole new game, which may very well have content they aren't interested in (London Underground isn't everyone's cup of tea) just for the privilege to keep buying new content.

    That alone is short-sighted on DTG's part.
     
  22. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    "Being forced to pay for..."

    Nobody FORCED you to pay for anything. Give me a break. Quit expecting things for free. It costs money for companies to develop products. They have to pay their artists, designers, software developers, etc for each and every hour spent on these projects yet you expect it to be given away? Here is an idea.... start your own software company and make a perfect train simulator application and give it away for free. Go for it. Cry me a river.
     
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  23. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    It's £24.99, the same price as a route and you're getting two new routes plus new features added to the game. What's with your sense of entitlement? Don't like it. Don't buy it.
     
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  24. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    It's £24.99 for three routes - that is £8 per route, which is the normal price for a route. TSW 2020 was £24.99 and had three routes - which was £8 per route = the normal price for a route.

    Sometimes you can purchase individual routes at a +200% undiscount, and pay £24.99 each, if you want to make the extra donation of £17 per route. But the normal price is about £8 per route - although confusingly this will sometimes be marked as "66% off".
     
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  25. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    兩條新路線以及遊戲中添加的新功能價格為£24.99要買
     
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  26. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    Gimme a sec while I slap that into translate:

    "Two new routes and new features added to the game cost £24.99 to buy".

    Well, yes and no. For consoles it's three routes and for PC its two. But yes pretty much that's the selling point. Features they advertise sounds like a gimmick to me.
     
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  27. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    Every route released as a standalone is £24.99. Always has been.
     
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  28. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow - are the comments by fanta1682002 actually real...? I always assumed they were just a joke... Oh dear... It is clearly Friday.... ;-)
     
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  29. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course - when it is in the "undiscount" period, when you are invited to donate 200% extra, at your discretion.
     
  30. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    More like Fry day lol
     
  31. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    You are indeed correct that nobody has been forced to pay anything. As for expecting things for free, don't you believe that it's reasonable that the things you do buy are in good working order and fit for purpose.

    For example, if you buy a BMW and they establish there's a software error that may cause the brakes to lock on at high speed. Would you expect to pay for that to be fixed or would you expect BMW to rectify the software error free of charge by way of a recall?

    Again would you buy your brand new BMW knowing full well that when the new model is released in two weeks time, yes you can still drive it, but don't expect any support or repairs after that new model is released? Because that is what's happening with the Chopper and the M3 to an extent.

    Yes, it does cost money to develop products, but there lies the issue. Why are so many people not seeing it as a development or an improvement? It can't be just because they are haters as they are called. I don't know many people that buy something with the sole intention of hating it. People buy software, games, simulators, however you want to describe them, because they have a passion or a liking for the subject, they have been convinced by the sales talk and promotion. It's only when they get to using the software that they find issue. Something doesn't look quite right, or it doesn't sound quite right, or it simply just doesn't work as it should.

    Now if the company does it's best to try and address those issues or can give an explanation as to why those issues can't be resolved people will generally accept that. However, for DTG to basically turn their back on TSW2020 in effect saying it's too hard to fix so lets not bother is what is upsetting many.
     
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  32. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    This. Absolutely.
     
  33. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    Exactly!
    Just because we had a “no” answer, in a way, it sounded like DTG can’t be bothered. If there was a reason - like a genuine proper reason for why you can’t to such & such then I’d be more understanding, but it was just a No. Which to me i just have to interpret as you can’t be bothered, given the attitude towards TSW content quality & it’s support and TSW2 ‘new’ features/improvements etc.

    I can understand why they’ve decided to say no, to stop people thinking otherwise - but for me as a member of the community since the original Railworks, just isn’t good enough. And it questions more on ‘why’ you can’t do it.

    That’s all. I’d rather have the proper answers to why it can be done now, than having to interpret. But that’s just my opinion...
     
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  34. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    very good game TSW2
     
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  35. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I could not bother to read all of that. The bottom line is that this forum has far too many entitled kids crying about how things should be free or how they were forced to buy. SMDH.
     
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  36. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    "I could not bother to read all of that."

    Yeah there's also a lot of ignorant people too. :) His point is more than valid. Read it, it is actually worth it.
     
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  37. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    Not wanting to read a post in a forum discussion -> Calling others kids
     
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  38. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have time. I am too ignorant and you are just a perfect little angel. When I grow up, I wanna be just like you. GTH
     
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  39. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Really. Cry and keep crying or actually do something about it. Child.
     
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  40. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    Well you certainly have all the time to write your own nonsense responses. :D Someone's a little cranky!
     
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  41. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I am not sure if this is the best comment to call someone else a kid by. You are being the most immature here
     
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  42. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    This is why the forums are very toxic for post like these & people still wonder why they don't listen to the community
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2020
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  43. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    哈哈
     
  44. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    哈哈 太好笑了。ただ文句を言い続け、そして私は笑い続けます。哈哈 哈哈 哈哈
    All I can do now is laugh. I can laugh all I like. Just like some of these kids are free to whine and moan and post baseless claims such as, "...make me buy" or "promised to..." I am free to laugh. 哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈

    There are some nice people on this forum, but the voices of the ignorant, entitled, and/or downright pathetic seem to be too loud. I do hope they bring in some form of moderation.

    This forum is unique. I have never before seen so much whining and complaining... over the same topics. Browse through the forum and you will find dozens of threads complaining about the same thing. Some people will start a new thread about the same topic from a thread already created.

    If I don't like a product, I don't buy it. I honestly don't like this forum, but before you tough guys tell me "don't use it", I will say I do find some useful information on here, and see posts by some nice people, so I will continue to use it unless DTG bans me, or one of you tough guys who act so tough on social media somehow magically stop me in the real world.

    哈哈. 對某些論壇用戶失望 但對遊戲不滿意完璧ではありませんが、楽しみを見つけることができます. 不管您喜歡與否,都期待著這款新遊戲。
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  45. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    BigMountain555

    "There are some nice people on this forum"
    I agree.

    "but the voices of the ignorant, entitled, and/or downright pathetic seem to be too loud."

    I also agree. You're live proof of that. :)

    In my opinion, this forum lacks moderators. That's all it is. It is indeed left very unorganized.

    But as for complaining - Even if YOU don't like or agree with it, there must be a reason for which many people are complaining. Actually, the reason was pretty much very well summed up by longo239 - but you seem to be one of those people YOU mentioned that are too loud. :)

    You don't need to stop using the forum, but you also don't have to reply to all topics you disagree with, calling others names.
     
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  46. andref.maccarini

    andref.maccarini Member

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    At 6:49:
    "There absolutely will be multiplayer in Train Sim World, absolutely! [...] With the way that we've been able to build Train Sim World, we can do that."
     
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  47. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to post the exact same video after reading that post. It's funny how since the announcement of TSW2 this video is unlisted. I wonder why..
     
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  48. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    I hadn't seen that video believe it or not, lol!
    Thanks for bringing it up!
     
  49. rwaday

    rwaday Active Member

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    Didn't I read somewhere that they did not want to treat console players like second class citizens? Then why are PC owners getting one less route? Have we become the new second class?
     
  50. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. It could be said that rather than upgrading everyone to first class, they're getting rid of first class and giving everyone 2nd or even 3rd class tickets!
     
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