I'm Sorry, But Dtg Need To Take A Hard Stand And Ditch The Old Consoles

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by paulmurphy_88, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. stephen220378

    stephen220378 Active Member

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    Well your spectacularly wrong. The "old consoles" can handle anthing that UE4 and TSW can throw at them, they've handled games twice as big, four times as good looking with 40 times more things going on without a frame drop. If you want I'll point you to, well.... More games than you can shake a stick at that do it.

    The problem really is that DTG have no idea how to optimise UE4. That's the plain and simple fact.
     
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  2. stephen220378

    stephen220378 Active Member

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    Do you think Naughty Dog would have that problem?

    I'll 100% guarantee they wouldn't
     
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  3. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I 100% agree. Old generation consoles proved they can handle 100 times more complex games. DTG just doesn't know how to optimise games. Not just on consoles. I don't have a PC, but I like watching Train Simulator videos on YouTube. Framerate drop bonanza...
     
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  4. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Well, the point is: the game runs exactly like that. The only difference between you and me is that I'm more sensitive about framerate drops or freezing, but believe me, every single drop I notice on my console is always there, on every console, also on Hentis Rail or Mega Sim videos, and on any other video you will find on YouTube.

    Look at the video I posted. Minute 13:04, bad 1 second freezing. Then launch your game and run the same route. I bet you'll get the same freezing issue in the same spot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  5. patput

    patput New Member

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    That is a bit of an unfair statement - think about the size of the dev team at DTG, compared to the games you’re referencing. A company like Rockstar or IW employs many times the number of developers as a company like DTG, so of course they are able to dedicate resources to getting every bit of performance out of an engine (or just to develop their own).
     
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  6. paulmurphy_88

    paulmurphy_88 Well-Known Member

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  7. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    13 Year old pieces of crap? Seriously. I thought the PS4, infact i damn well know that the PS4 was released in 2013 and not 2008.
     
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  8. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    It’s a fair point you originally made just not a viable or realistic one. At the end of the day your simply not going to totally abandoned the majority of your poorer / unluckier fan base in favour of those rich or lucky enough. to be able to play on the latest kit, unless your a massive game developer like EA for example who can afford to absorb the fall in revenue whilst waiting until everyone upgrades or are prepared for some players to just unintentionally abandon your game franchise altogether whilst they wait to be able to get a PS5 in favour of something else that might catch their interest. Keeping your market revenue and interest alive is a fine balance.
     
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  9. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    toxtronyx is doing a nativ PS5 version for the very niche "On The Road" truck simulator. And they are a very small team (<10 people). If there is a will, there is a way.
     
  10. LiquidShadows

    LiquidShadows Well-Known Member

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    I have one of the OG PS4's, as well. I had the same problem -- my room sounded like an airport. I'd highly suggest spending the $10 or so to buy a T9 Security screwdriver so that you can disassemble your PS4 and clean it out. No exaggeration, doing that lowered the fan noise by ~85%. It's SUPER quiet now and runs much cooler.
     
  11. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I've cleaned it out a few times but not taken it apart fully.
     
  12. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    It’s likely the next paid title release of TSW will ditch PS4 & X1, I’m not talking TSW2 2021 but when they do a ‘new’ TSW 3.

    I agree that TSW 2 looks and plays far better on next gen consoles, and while it would be nice to get as much as we can out of them (HMA layers pls), the money is still going to come from PS4 & X1 just down to the sheer fact of how few PS5 and Series consoles are out there right now.
     
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  13. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, we can argue about this till the cows come home, but neither suggestion makes any sense. Nearly 70% of the player base is on console and of those, I would guess about 80% or more have the older machines. The notion of throwing these players under the bus by releasing a PS5 type upgrade would be economic suicide. And a separate version of the game just for next-generation consoles and high end PC's would create a niche market within a niche market. Business nonsense. My suggestion: leave well alone, at least until the tipping point when new consoles are in the majority, which could be 2 or 3 years down the road.

    PS: I didn't even get to the morality of the situation. Oh and by the way, with all due respect, don't start a thread with the words "I'm sorry" unless you truly are, rather than just smug about apparently getting a new console.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That is true hence why dtg are working on optimization upgrades for tsw2 because of the poor optimization this game has. 4 years using this engine and they still haven't improved optimization on some routes for last gen consoles and other games handle ue4 including smaller games with smaller teams on ue4 just fine compared to this. Better late than never though
     
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  15. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    So keep it all for privileged people only? Cut less fortunate off?
     
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  16. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    The issue you state is a problem the whole video game industry is facing right now, having to support these 7 year old last gen consoles, the original Xbox one and PS4. While also having to support the current generation, PS5 and Series X and everything in between. It puts a lot of work on game developers and adds a lot more work load having to test each platform and make adjustments that ultimately will hinder the potential of these new consoles. I don’t think you would be calling for this had you not been able to get a PS5, I think you and a lot of people would be disappointed if this happened and until they can produce more consoles I don’t think it will happen, even throughout the industry. That being said, there is potential in DTG releasing a “Next generation” version that is optimized and has options that the older consoles don’t have.
     
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  17. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    Quite frankly, that truck sim is... Not good.
     
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  18. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I own both PS4 and PS5 but I'm going to say this on the subject.

    Until Sony officially stops supporting the PS4 system then developers shouldn't just abandon a lot of their player base in favour of the newer consoles. There has to be a gap to allow developers time to support the newer generation systems. Games are still being developed for the PS4 system for those who can't upgrade yet. I believe Sony has stated that support for the PS4 and PS4 pro will continue until at least 2023 to allow time for the transition between systems. That's 2 years away and even then, a lot of the console player base won't have upgraded to the new systems by that time.

    Heck, Sony only announced the other day that they are finally shutting down the PS3 and PS Vita stores later this year so that just shows how long support can actually run for.

    Microsoft only stopped updating their Windows XP operating system in 2014 after 12 years.

    Not everyone has the luxury to be able to afford to upgrade consoles or computer systems. Most people right now can't even get their hands on a PS5/XBSX due to global shortages of materials needed for motherboards, GPUs etc or because greedy people decide to buy lots of them and try to sell them at extortionate prices. It happened with computer components like graphics cards too.

    As was stated in the roadmap stream on Tuesday night, there has to be parity across all platforms. It was mentioned that under the console licencing terms, they aren't allowed to put out new content for the newer systems only for a game that is available on the previous platforms. They have to make DLCs and features available to all player bases across all systems.
     
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  19. xsaw2121

    xsaw2121 Member

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    Yeah that ain't going to happen anytime soon not with the religious shortage of next-gen consoles that's currently going on there's currently not enough next gen consoles out there for these companies to make money that's why they continue to support the PlayStation 4 and Xbox one
     
  20. paulmurphy_88

    paulmurphy_88 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, seeing as how my post has seemingly triggered a lot of peeps, I'll retract my statement. Sure, keep supporting last gen to honour the user base, but please look at releasing some type of next gen upgrade for the new consoles, and I'm in no way trying to be elitist because I own one (it really isn't that hard to find if you really try), I'm just saying that there is no point investing money in new hardware if it is not to be utilised. Hell, I ownly bought one for the sole purpose of playing TSW at 60fps.
     
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  21. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I think that is what this thread is suggesting
     
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  22. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    As you can afford it. I agree, I would like to be able to buy next gen as well but I can't afford it. Stopping the support for last gen would cut me off and lot of others as well.
    The sole purpose fore to play TSW at the moment is that it offers a great escape from what we are all living in and without that I would have nothing.
    I prefer to be able to pay my bills and eat than to invest in PS5.
    Don't get me wrong, I think pretty lucky as lot of other people can't even afford to buy routes at the moment but still... You know.

    At the end of the day you seem to miss a point and why your suggestion is just wrong. It feels more like you rub it under other people's nose that you have a Ferrari and I struggle to feed myself. Just like others who have posted about PS5.

    Edited by DTG Natster to remove inappropriate language.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2021
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  23. njkendall42

    njkendall42 Member

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    Hope they don't just yet, some of us can't afford new consoles, especially at the minute. I see your point, but not yet. Besides, it would be financial suicide. I wonder how many of there customers have next gen consoles? I see people saying they can't afford dlc never mind a console. Nice idea, not yet.
     
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  24. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    You are going to get more and more of these style threads because the people who are lucky enough to still have jobs and afford and get next gen hardware, will want everyone else who hasn't be cast aside, it's always the same, probably if you told the OP that DTG should ditch last gen before they got their shiny new toy they would be crying that's not fair for us last gen players, but soon as they get new toy the next breath is ditch last gen because I've got next gen now...........
     
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  25. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Sony couldn’t have released the PS5 at a worse time in light of this pandemic and the effect it’s having on people’s incomes etc. Not that they knew the pandemic was on the horizon of course.
     
  26. paulmurphy_88

    paulmurphy_88 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Are you serious with this drivel?
     
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  27. paulmurphy_88

    paulmurphy_88 Well-Known Member

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    I lost my job due to the pandemic. The PS5 was cheap enough after trading in my old console and games, almost free in fact. I know what you're saying but please don't make such ridiculous assumptions.
     
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  28. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    I actually think otherwise. Since it takes sometime anyway for software to catch up to utilize the new gen.
    I think it would have been worse to wait a year or two since in that case the financial meltdown would have been greater.
    So purely I'm a business sense I do understand why they didn't hold back and postpone the next gen. Better to quickly release before the potential customer base shrinks even more. It might be the last time for sometime we see the sixth generation as the economic fallout is still unclear in the long run. Plus during the current pandemic people's focus will shift even more. Especially once we get back to some kind of normal.
     
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  29. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    Assumptions are for princesses
     
  30. Costpap

    Costpap Member

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    Why should DTG ditch the platforms on which the majority of their players are on? So that they don't have enough money to develop content for the people on next-gen consoles and high-end PCs? I hoped that this would be easy enough for anyone to figure out, considering how it is almost always being pointed out somewhere on the forums, and the fact that even DTG themselves has said that around 2/3rds of all TSW players are on console, most of which are last-gen.
     
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh I traded in my Xbox One S and got the Series X for $199. It's cheaper if you trade in your old console but unless you try really hard, it won't be easy to find one
     
  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So I guess your a princess then lol
     
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  33. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    It's just what else there is to say if the person don't he/she has been wrong.
    I mean, he was like a schoolboy starting to justify himself. Like if someone asks: why did you steal that apple? His reply was: but that guy did it first.

    Aaah, regarding accusing me being a princess (guessing), careful as I just might have that kink actually :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree but the op did recant his statement if you read it and I do agree with the op's idea of some sort of next gen patch. Next gen users and pc users are being held back by last gen players. It's not a opinion (and I don't wanna anger some) but it's just the reality. The hma layers can't be used on next gen even though it should handle them just fine because we are stuck waiting for dtg to make optimization updates for last gen users. I don't think it would make sense to abandon last gen users completely but other game companies including some small ones have released next gen patches for their games so I think dtg should consider making next gen patches for next gen users so the game could be maximized for those consoles.

    Also if you trade in your last gen console, you could get a next gen console like I did at a much reduced price if you can find one :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  35. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    HMA layers handled well on my PS4 as well so in that sense we are on a same boat. Now, if course it depends on your system I know that and everyone's system is unfortunately different.
     
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  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh on my Xbox One S the HMA layers were fine but I did get the frame rate drops near Munich and I guess some who would have them on the base console would get crashes. Were you on a base PS4 with the layers?
     
  37. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    hentis rail is awesome the other one steals ideas
     
  38. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    Can't we all be as one, as a train-loving gaming community, without the hardware superiority?

    As a now reformed "PC elitist", I can see where OP is coming from.
    I am on the fence regarding whether DTG and Rivet should be bothering "dumbing down" for consoles, as train simming has been a PC only genre for years.
    But small companies like DTG and Rivet (and others ofc) would surely fold in today's market without the new player base of console owners.
    Consoles have become so essential to this niche market, and it is all the better for it, else it wouldn't exist in 2021 peeps!

    By allowing console owners access to the genre, DTG has surely saved the train simming content for years to come.

    The next step is down to the coding. Gen12 and Vulkan, please...
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That is true. It was a good idea to make tsw for consoles but since other users feel restricted in a way because of last gen consoles, threads like these pop up from time to time
     
  40. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is no better than your initial post to be honest. Nobody was ‘triggered’ it’s just that the initial post was one that a lot of people quite rightly replied that it doesn’t reflect the reality of the majority of players. You bought a new console just to play TSW at 60 fps, and right now you are probably playing TSW at 60 fps, so you have got everything you set out to get. You now want more, which is understandable, but not the situation everybody else is in. DTG are not really in a position to release five versions of their game just yet either, which is what is required for the newer consoles to get improvements beyond the current performance benefits. You are just going to have to wait.

    As for saying that everyone can get one if they ‘really try’ is just as elitist as everything else you have been saying, as it implies both that everyone should and that most people are incompetent at looking. As for saying that there is no point investing in new hardware if it isn’t utilised, you made that error by getting one just for TSW before finding the easily available information that DTG are not even looking at a PS5 version yet. It really isn’t that hard to find that information if you really try. You got your 60 fps, be happy with your better experience, and let others enjoy their worse one, you will get a PS5 version when it is right for DTG to do it. Your request will have been noted.
     
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  41. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    No, not base. A bit beefier. Noticeable frame drops are still present, with or without layers. Between Augsburg and Munich the power line posts load in better thou after the optimization work and solar panels do not load in on last second anymore thou. So that is a good thing.
    The yellow building in Augsburg on the hill loads in as well now when approaching the station before Hauptbanhof. So the good thing is that optimization work is noticeable, at least on my end.
    Thou when I arrive to Essen from Bochum on HRR I still have a one second freeze when approaching Essen Hauptbanhof. East Costway and RSN seem to be crisper now though. Especially RSN. MSB still has its problems though but I am afraid that it is the complication thanks to porting it over from TSW2020.
    On RRO there has never been any noticable performance issues on my end though.

    On MSB, scenery wise, the biggest problem I have is that the hills are bald (no trees) while on TSW2020 hills used to be covered (as in RL) with a thick and beautiful forest (more scenic on sim than in RL in my opinion). That's why I haven't used MSB much. Another reason is the sound issues with the rolling stock.
     
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  42. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Stu, for putting things into words as I couldn't. I mean, I could but a lot less mannered way to be honest.
    Respect for that. And huge thank you once again.
     
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  43. stephen220378

    stephen220378 Active Member

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    There's plenty of smaller dev studios that use UE and their games perform just fine. To say it's a staff member count or resource issue is just an excuse.
     
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  44. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, the issue that DTG has is that they are doing that noone else has done and sometimes ambition is bigger than the ability and I admire that. It is like, they are walking and experimenting with the things noone has thought about. Testing the limits of the engine etc.

    In other words, I do agree with you.
     
  45. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Active Member

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    How did you work out 85%?
     
  46. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I really think that people over exaggerate TSW2's performance on consoles. I can't speak for the Xbox One, but I've always played this game on a base PS4 and have never had any experiences that would make me think it's a buggy mess. It's perfectly playable. Some routes like GWE and East Coastway have a very smooth framerate, and even ones that struggle a bit more like HMA are still perfectly playable.

    Nothing would make me angrier if DTG abandoned these platforms, at least at this point in the year. PS5s and Series Xs are still hard as nails to get your hands on, and would make TSW2 far more exclusive than it needs to be. I agree that the performance isn't perfect, but I think it's less the console's fault and more to do with DTG's unwillingness to properly optimise the game. There are far more graphically impressive games on these consoles with none of the performance issues.
     
  47. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    And DTG won't "abandon" them either.
     
  48. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I see so hopefully when the full optimization patch is released, things will get better
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on that it's just an excuse. It's not as if dtg are broke either
     
  50. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    While it's fine to have the discussion, I guess, it's all moot anyway, because DTG have said "there is nothing to talk about" regarding upgrades or next generation versions of the game. Apart from anything else, the logistics of producing 5 versions are prohibitive.
     
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