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In The Name Of The Community - Analysis Of Past Polls

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ProfCreeptonius, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Ladies and Gentlemen and fellow DTG Devs,

    I now proudly present to you the results of my past two votes and the conclusions I can make regarding the future of TSW. Before beginning, I must stress that the analysis that I make isn't flawless, everyone is invited to share their own conclusions with the rest.

    Capture.PNG Capture2.PNG
    Dear DTG,
    above you see the results of the second vote attached. Judging based on the discussion in the thread, I can conclude that a vast majority of forum users was for both the Route Editor and for Bugfixes, but I forced them to make a choice. Still a significant amount, 40% chose the route editor. Another 30% chose Bugfixes. From the selection of a route editor I conclude that the community wants to help contribute to the development of TSW - They want to be given tools to help you develop train simulation. Most also see the editor as an opportunity for earnings - for the first time, third parties will be able to produce material for the game. It will also add to variety, as one could play scenarios from other creators.
    If we now think about the selection 'Bugfixes' and the result of the previous vote, attached below Capture3.PNG
    As you can see, the three most voted trains are from RSN, the latest DLC addon. This coincides with many statements of community members that RSN is a leap forwards in DLC quality. I have seen at least three instances of RSN's quality being stated on the forums. Combining these thoughts with the choice 'Bugfixes' we see that the community wants correct simulation - they don't want the DLC's that you offer to be riddled with mistakes. Only a minority stated that they wish for DLC's.

    Combining the thoughts given above, we can conclude that the majority of the community desires perfect or at least bugless simulation. The community is also willing to help overcome the difficulties when creating addons.

    This is further confirmed by individual deeds of members of the community: Countless people have been adding to the experience in TSW by creating repaints, tutorials, guides, walkthroughs, let's plays, bug reports, etc. The large amount of route requests compared to requests for an editor can be explained as follows: The editor is one and the same, so there would only be one request entry for the editor. There are countless possible routes, thus there will inevitably be more route requests. I'm certain this vote is unbiased and shows the true desires of the community.

    At this point I must stress that the statements of some developers that "The community wants Route DLC's" or that "TSW needs more variety so we need to create more DLC's and quickly" or "Bugfixes can be postponed, we need new customers" are very wrong, and this is clearly shown in the votes. I will not say whom I have gotten these quotes from, but rest assured I'm not making them up.

    This is not a feature request. I do not request the editor, nor do I request bugs fixed. I want to illustrate the actual thoughts of the community to you guys at DTG and help establish a better communication. I hope I have done my job well.

    Thank you, DTG

    Dear Community,

    I hope I've represented you well. If you think that my conclusions are incorrect, please, feel free to expand on my thoughts and add your own in the thread below. I am most interested to hear your opinion.

    Thank you, to every single one of you, for being honest to me,

    -Prof
     
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  2. Juan Manuel Luengo

    Juan Manuel Luengo Member

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    Thanks by you work, Prof.
    I feel grateful and represented by his words. I imagine that DTG is also grateful, because your study and conclusions are valid and sincere.
     
  3. MCGermanyFan

    MCGermanyFan Well-Known Member

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    That thing is unnecessary because we already know how much people would love to have an editor/bugs fixed when looking at the created threads and comments.

    About the favourite loco: Who needs that information? DTG will probably know what players like the best when looking at the stats of how many people bought what DLC.

    Just my opinion though, if someone wants to talk about it, they can do that. I won't bite.

    Edit: To Prof: I do not want to be represented by you. You can't say something like "In the name of the community". You just want to make yourself important. The surveys are not really representative because there is only a very small sample size.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  4. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    I was going to post this in the other thread, but I voted for bugfixing, and I think that that should maybe have implied general polishing and adding of features, too. You can add routes and even an editor, but there's simply no substitute for a strong foundation.
     
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  5. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    MCGermanyFan I'm sorry I couldn't fulfill your wishes.
    I still find your post fairly offensive.
    All I wanted to do is help, even if you don't see it.

    Prof
     
  6. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    MCGermanyFan i don’t agree with the statement ‘These surveys are not really representative because there is only a very small sample size’.

    Firstly ProfCreeptonius can only poll the forum here. Now I don’t know how many forum members there are but just under a 100 respondents I’d have thought was a pretty reasonable representation and probably more than enough to be valid. Note as well that as the results are decisive it is unlikely that margin of error is going to be that important - that is having a bigger sample size would have ended up with radically different findings.

    If we are looking for issues - that I don’t think undermine the results - I’d suggest three.

    1. - and ProfCreeptonius had no control over this - during the period of the survey on the console side some serious bugs emerged that were subsequently solved. There is an argument that may have encouraged console users to vote for bug fixes and they might feel differently now. So the time a poll is taken over and what happens in that time can be important.
    2. The editor, as it isn’t meant to be available to console users, should only be of interest to PC users. That results in poll results being driven by the split between PC and console voters and how representative that is of the real world situation between PC and console players. Console only and PC only polls would likely have different results.
    3. @ProfCreeptonius’ comments on the results are reasonable ideas, but they aren’t more than that. For example ‘Most also see the editor as an opportunity for earnings - for the first time, third parties will produce material for the game’ isn’t correct. What the poll shows is many respondents wanting an editor. Why they want that editor, or what the results might be (the ‘opportunity for earnings) can only be speculated. Many may want the editor so they can produce their own content or share others. Who knows? Without drill down questions other than x number of people would consider the editor a priority anything else is an unknown, at least from the poll results.

    So I think we should all thank ProfCreeptonius for his work and given the good level of response it wouldn’t hurt DTG to at least acknowledge it and make comment.
     
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  7. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Medellinexpat Thanks for your support!
    Here are a few interesting numbers I left out but some might be interested:
    There were, at the time of the poll, 92 responses. Every voter could vote for only one thing. Thus we have 92 voters.
    The poll for the favorite loco had in total 86 responses. Every voter could vote for exactly two locos, thus a genuine approximation of how many individuals voted would be about 45 to 50.
    My analysis, is of course, speculation, and I emphasized it in the post. It's just my thoughts on what the results meant. I wrote this thread publicly because I wanted to hear your interpretation of the numbers I got.

    Cheers,
    Prof.
     
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  8. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    ProfCreeptonius
    Thanks for all you have done it's great when users such as you take the time to do what you did. Hopefully everyone else will say the same thing.
     
  9. darkage

    darkage Member

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    Going straight to the point, truth is, this thread is totally useless, not only have we known these stuff for a long time (therefore the is nothing new here), but also, this is part of DTG's marketing department's tasks and they surely have a lot more data for a much more in depth analysis and decision making.

    About the polls numbers, 92 voters in a universe of thousands of people, isn't representative of anything. There is a reason why scientific studies and polls have a sample pool in the thousands of individuals, because in a big community of anything, you need a minimum amount of people interviewed/studied to safely say that the results you have are scientifically accurate and not a coincidence just because you selected certain people that gave you the results you got at the end.

    So no I will not thank Prof for something he did which is totally useless and I am not represented by him
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  10. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    darkage quite a lot of guessing going on in your post I think. I don't know how many people are on this forum (and I doubt you do either) but I doubt that the number of active users are in their 'thousands'. Scientifically polls can be meaningful without polling everyone. In fact that's exactly what polls do - take a smaller number of people and apply it to the wider group. You don't have to ask everyone, or even a large number of people, to get results that have meaning. As I don't know what the population is of active members of the forum I can't be sure that it's a reasonably scientific poll (sample size calculator) but as you presumably don't either you can't say it's wrong. What is true is that if there are 500 or less active members on this forum that sample size (the people responding) is more than enough to make the results likely accurate in terms of what is and what isn't seen as important. Also it is totally inaccurate to say that ProfCreeptonius 'selected certain people'. He didn't - anyone on the forum who read his posts could decide to take the poll or not.

    On the argument that all these things are known that's true. But this wasn't about discovery of issues, it was about the prioritization of them. Saying 'all these things may be important but which one is most important to you' isn't suggesting anything 'new' is being found.

    As to what DTG know about us and what we know and think it may be less that you think. They know from our Steam and our accounts with them what we buy. They probably know which country we are in, they might know how we pay for our content, they may be able to ascertain trends like I buy more UK content than US, or that some people tend to wait for sales. As a total population they will have data on how often people buy, how much they spend and of course what their popular DLCs are. But - other than reading the forum or having their own polls they don't know whether the provision of an editor or working on bugs are more important. Other than the forum the only interaction they have with us is when we buy and our purchases don't provide discovery of those items. If people aren't buying TSW DLC they don't have any feedback from the purchase activity as to why that is. They only have the information from the 'positives' - that is the people who buy.

    So give ProfCreeptonius a break. His survey isn't perfect - none are - but it's had a reasonable number of responses and just to dismiss the results as coincidence suggests that you and others are just looking for a reason to dismiss the results.
     
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  11. darkage

    darkage Member

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    I see you just read a few words of my post and took everything completely out of context, next time actually read what I said, or work on improving your reading comprehension skills
     
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  12. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    MCGermanyFan again another downvote - do you always revert to that when someone differs from you

    darkage I didn’t take a few words out of your post. I even quoted them in context. If you are offering advice I’ll offer you some. Don’t pretend to understand things like poll science if you don’t know anything them about while accusing others of misusing information.
     
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  13. darkage

    darkage Member

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    No you actually didn't, you read a few words of my post and wrote in a paragraph the same thing I'd written before, in fact, while trying to shut me down, you made yourself look silly by lecturing me on studies pool sizes, when I had said exactly what you said, just with less words, I now suggest you practice your reading comprehension skills, or pay more attention to the stuff you're doing
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  14. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    darkage

    - 'this is part of DTG's marketing department's tasks and they surely have a lot more data' - proof please and related to the data requested in this survey please

    - ' you need a minimum amount of people interviewed/studied to safely say that the results you have are scientifically accurate and not a coincidence' - please calculate at what size, given the 98 respondents - the pool size would suggest that the findings of the survey are inaccurate. I'll let you choose the confidence factor you consider appropriate, but please quote it in your answer

    - 'just because you selected certain people that gave you the results you got at the end' - proof please that the survey poster selected 'certain people'

    You need to read what you write.

    pschlik thanks for the fly by down vote and leaving the thread without saying anything worthwhile.
     
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  15. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Well, just to throw in my two rusty pennies, here. I'm not going to repeat how pointless this topic is, so I agree that it wasn't necessary, being that the voting feature was put in place for a reason. This didn't need to be explained to them. It's almost equivalent to as a trying to teach a Chef how to boil water.

    Secondly, I can't believe there are folks on here who trip/take offense over downvotes, it simply means one just doesn't agree with your point of view, it's just that simple. There is no need for one to explain their reasoning for it. It's okay to disagree with what ones says, even with what I'm stating now.. Anyone on here is free to down/upvote this very comment if they dis/agree. It's okay.. not the end of the world. I may say something in another post that the same person who disagrees with what I'm saying now, will agree with. Ya'll gotta chill. If you can't accept that, you may need to detox for a while, by signing off, taking a break from the internet/social media, or any platform where your views are subjected to any form of objections or criticisms. Because it really isn't that serious.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  16. MarkusLiberty

    MarkusLiberty Member

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    I appreciate that you spent some time on this, but as others have mentioned, the selection is way too small. We obviously don't know the full numbers on the playerbase, but I think we can assume that the your current selection isn't anywhere near that of a standard survey, so the margin of error is likely very high.

    None of that would have been problem if it wasn't for the fact that you're presenting this as major community survey of importance, one which developers needs to take notes of. That's a pretty bold, and I can see how it might rub people the wrong way. (And given the replies, it most certainly has)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  17. FritzHaas

    FritzHaas New Member

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    Excuse me but why in the world would you call out someone just for downvoting your reply
     
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  18. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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  19. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    MarkusLiberty just a thought for you but if the top two have 41% and 33% and the next highest is 11% the margin of error can be huge and still not mean that the results are incorrect. Given the difference in polling numbers to have a margin of error that would invalidate the results you need a pretty good sized pool. Margin of error is far more meaningful when you're dealing with similar percentages...
     
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  20. FritzHaas

    FritzHaas New Member

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    At least spell my name right. Thanks.
     
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  21. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    Useful or not, I'm inclined to agree that this poll might not be representative of the playerbase. Not necessarily due to the sample size, but because the people who frequent these forums tend to be the more enthusiastic fans, who are more unforgiving, have more attention to detail and even be interested in creating content. That's more than you can say about the average user, especially with the console people taken into account.
     
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  22. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, though it clearly was for petty reasons. But no offense taken by it. Have the day you deserve! :):cool:
     
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  23. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    FritzHaas 'enlugh'? Guess you need autocorrect and I need it turned off. Apologies for spelling your name wrong.
     
  24. FritzHaas

    FritzHaas New Member

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    Thank you for pointing out the typo, it happens. Oh and I'm using a German keyboard so no autocorrect for English. Note that I'm on a phone.
     
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  25. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    You say that DTG's marketing department has a lot more data than this, which may be true, however I've never been asked by DTG what I'd like to see implemented next in TSW. How would the marketing department know that people want bug fixes and tools? Something I've learned working for big and small companies is to never assume that people know what to you seems obvious.

    It's also not a universe of thousands of people, it's a train simulator game where 92 people is about 20% of everyone currently playing the game. So it's probably far more representative than most polls, where respondents usually represent a fraction of 1%.

    A better line of argument would be that most forum members have a greater interest in trains than most casual players, therefor casual players are less likely to respond to the poll, skewing it in favour of those with a greater interest in trains.

    This poll/thread is far from useless, and was to me an interesting excercise. I would also thank ProfCreeptonius regardless of how I valued this poll, because he's taken the time to do something with the goal of benefiting the community, so I think it courteous to recognise that fact.
     
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  26. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Lombra what you say is true but it's also true that the 'fan base' probably is responsible for a disproportionate amount of the revenues (we tend to by more DLC than the casual users) and because the forum is one of the few sources of information on the game people who post here - whether they intend it or not - do become 'influencers' for others.
     
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  27. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Have I started the most agressive discussion ever??? LOL!
    Folks, please, don't get mad at me if you disagree. That disagreement is the exact thing all this is meant for! To give DTG a look into various opinions regarding the future and to see what we can take from the past. I only have a good intention.
    On another note:
    I highly resent the claim that the polls are pointless.
    I quote DTG:
    What the community wants are Route DLC-s.
    Before anything else, we must make Route and Loco DLC-s to add to the variety in TSW.
    The most feature requests are route suggestions, so the community wants new routes.

    Raise hands who thinks that this is unproven. Good, good. I wanted to prove/disprove these claims and draw as many conclusions from the vote as possible.
    I know that the sample size isn't huge, but it's the best we have for now. I indulge you to make another vote, ask more players, get more information. And share it with me, I'm hyped to learn what you have.
    As you can see, there was a purpose behind this, see it or not.
    Even if you don't, let's all be happy together and just help to work to a better future together. Whether my attempt was a success or not, I don't know. You be the judge.

    Cheers,
    Prof
     
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  28. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ProfCreeptonius how big did you expect the sample size to be? Given the number of regular posters on here - and the lower number of responses to other surveys - I thought you did very well. We're all guessing the size of the forum participation. Perhaps those who doubt the poll might want to recast it and try their own poll and see whether they get consistent results?

    Nearly 70 people out of 100 voted for the editor and bug fixes. Let's not go down the road that those votes, including mine, don't represent anything because others wanted or expected a different result.

    Plenty of polls I've voted on where I haven't chosen 'the winner', but my reaction wasn't to trash everyone else's vote on the basis that IF more people voted it MIGHT have had a different result.
     
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  29. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    No one is saying the polls are pointless, its this post that is. The poll feature was put in place for a reason. It didn't need to be explained to DTG what the community wants when it is them who created and govern this site, to begin with. They've more than likely already have more accurate information compiled than you've even begun to come up with. That's what is basically being said here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  30. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    rare_common_sense I shared your opinion for quite a while actually
    But the quotes I gave from DTG worried me. It suggested to me that DTG might have biased or false information. That's why I made this. If it's really obsolete, I apologise.

    Medellinexpat I didn't expect to get much more, but I guess people are claiming that I need to question more people.
     
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  31. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    rare_common_sense

    'It didn't need to be explained to DTG what the community wants when it is them who created and govern this site, to begin with'

    Why can't the forum be used to explain to DTG what the community wants? I thought that was a large part of why DTG set the site up. Isn't the site for feedback? Plenty of posts on the forum about people wanting the editor. All the poll does is show just how much people want it. Equally issues with bugs. Is it just the poll that isn't needed, or should people stop posting that they want those things dealt with? Personally I don't think DTG will be unhappy with the survey. Even if they don't think it's completely accurate it's at least food for thought.

    'They've more than likely already have more accurate information compiled than you've even begun to come up with'

    You're the second person I'm going to ask for proof on that. Where did they get it from? Also on that basis would every route and loco suggestion is also worthless as DTG already have data to tell that what people want? Don't kill feedback - it's a way for people to express their opinions.

    I will agree with you that DTG know that people want the editor. But it is kind of interesting to see it as a 'group' response rather than as individual forum postings.Personally I doubt whether the survey will have any impact. But I don't see the harm that it does.
     
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  32. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ProfCreeptonius Prof, 98 people told you what they wanted. Half a dozen people are telling you they don't trust the results. Don't let those half a dozen people tell you that 98 votes don't count or don't represent what's needed.
     
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  33. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Either you're electing to miss the point, or you're just simply not understanding what those who have their valid objections over the subject of this post are talking about. What isn't being argued here, is the need for polls, or opinions. What is being argued is the need to explain something to the people who have created and govern this site/forum about something, they're more than likely already acutely aware of. Just because they're not always responding, don't doesn't mean someone isn't watching. Now, if you want to be given some sort of proof of how they obtain information. Do you think they just randomly fix or address issues with the products they may not know exist post-release? Or would something actually have to be conveyed to them in order to address issues the community brings up? That is in some shape or form, have to be information they acquired in order to know what is in need of attention.

    Again, as I've said.. it's the equivalent of trying to teach a chef how to boil water.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  34. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Now, to be honest, I wouldn't have necessarily even bothered to respond to this post at all, as I was more bothered by the fact that downvotes can be so triggering, especially when no reasoning behind it is given. If you don't question the need to be given a reason why someone upvotes your POV, then why question or take offense if they downvote (disagree)? We all are given the right to dis/agree with or without explanation. You downvote for petty reasons, which is totally your prerogative, not going to lose sleep over it. I just find it hypocritical for anyone to complain over something they themselves have no problem doing.
     
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  35. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    rare_common_sense so your concept is that DTG are aware or at least ‘ more likely aware’ that this is the priority order and therefore that’s the objection to the poll. Therefore because we presume it is known we shouldn’t mention it.

    The issue about the information was the claim, not by me, that DTG likely had better data. Perhaps they do, perhaps they don’t. But you’re mixing your arguments. You’re saying that they have the data to fix their products. Yes, they probably do but how do they know, at this very moment, what it is that people want most? That’s a different type of data. I’ve never told them what my priorities are as a client. Have you? Polls like this are the only way to collect it

    Or is the argument that the minority of people who go onto Discord or Twitch represent what the community wants to the Devs?

    What makes me suspicious is why a small group has got so excited about this, effectively bullying their point that this poll isn’t valid. Far more people voted than are complaining about it but for some reason the majority apparently ‘don’t get it’.

    I tend to think those that are complaining are worried that DTG might listen to this and slow down the release of route and loco DLCs to work on other priorities. That wouldn’t be a good thing for the new ‘reskin’ industry that some of those complaining about are involved in. Nothing wrong in that work on reskins, in fact it is most laudable, but new DLC didn’t come top of the poll.

    As for DTG ‘are not always responding’ give me a break. You’d have to be the King of fan boys not to realize that DTG communication is at best sub optimal.
     
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  36. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    rare_common_sense on down votes normally I avoid them. What I really dislike is people who down vote but don’t explain why. I also don’t have much time for the users who have posted once, but have downvoted 28 times. That isn’t being a member of the community. There are lots of new users on this forum, a good thing, but we want them to share their thoughts. There’s also a trend here of pack down voting, people who don’t like an idea all voting down any opposing view on a thread but all hiding behind their keyboards.

    I’ve seen you on many threads. Often I agree with you, sometimes not. Personally I think your posts add to the community. I am often swayed by different ideas. At one point I thought there was too much emotion about the editor. The more I read, my opinion changed.

    I try to partake in the community so each week for example I vote on the screenshots contest. I try to be fair and impartial but after voting for one poster and then having a fly by downvote without explanation perhaps I get a little disheartened.
     
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  37. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    An upvote is 'I agree with what you have said and I share that opinion'. You therefor know what that person's opinion is. A down vote is 'I disagree with what you have said and I don't share that opinion'; But it leaves you not knowing what their opinion actually is, and whilst that's their right, it's not part of normal/face to face conversations, so it can lead to frustraition. I can't recall a face to face conversation with someone where they said 'I disagree with your point, but I won't tell you why', it's just not a normal way of conducting a conversation.

    Personally I don't worry about up/down votes, they're just an insidious intrusion of social media in to a medium where they're not very useful, so it's best to ignore them. When I first started using the internet back in the 90s, forums didn't have up/down voting, just people conversing. The closer online interactions are to face to face interactions, the more productive they tend to be.

    Of course, maybe I'm just getting old! :D
     
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  38. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Digital Draftsman I think you can add to upvote ‘I don’t necessarily agree with you but you’ve made a post that makes a good argument.’

    You clearly are a very forgiving person. You’ve been downvoted 62 times but only returned the favor 6 times.

    Perhaps this idea of ranking based on positive feedback is to blame. It’s interesting how many of the people with high scores are so parsimonious in voting other people’s postings up!
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
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  39. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Well, perception is quite an interesting thing, I suppose. But, personally, I'm bewildered by the fact downvotes, with/out explanation, can be taken so offensively. Just don't see a huge deal over it. If one does feel strongly as to why they may or may not agree, then they will take the time to explain if they so choose to do so. While I, to a certain degree, personally would like to know a person's reasons for why they may dis/agree with my views, I still understand it is their right to just do so at their discretion. Usually, I do get responses, other times, I don't. Doesn't affect my ability to breathe, nor my bank account.:cool:
     
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  40. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    Folks, upvotes and downvotes don’t persuade DTG to make choices any which way, they decide on their own. This thread has gone way past the line and completely off topic and to be quite honest, we didn’t need this in the first place because Dovetail very well knows what we want and they will bring it to us at some point but whenever it comes, it comes and can’t come any sooner because we all know DTG is a smaller company and can’t make things happen at a super fast rate.

    Now, DTG also needs to make money so no matter what the community wants more, route DLC’s ain’t stopping because that’s there main source of revenue currently through TSW pretty much. Also, the people that handle the route DLC’s and the people that handle the editor stuff are in different departments and do different things so it wouldn’t make sense to move people around at all. If DTG were to let’s say divert more resources to the “acceleration” of the editor, it still wouldn’t be so much faster and not only would we have to wait for that, but we’d be waiting with much less DLC’s then we would have to if resources weren’t diverted and then DTG is making less money which can’t happen.

    Long story short, we’re getting all this stuff in due time and this nonesense isn’t gonna do anything to make it come faster so please do everyone a favor and shut this useless thread down and enough with the nonesense with the upvotes/downvotes, you sound like children complaining about it.
     
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  41. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    rare_common_sense not disagreeing with anyone’s right to express an opinion but I do worry that people believe down voting neuters that persons opinion.

    The Steam forums became a problem because there was a clique who were so negative on DTG any positive input was met with ridicule. The concept was that DTG needed to sort themselves out and the only way was was maximum pressure. Anyone (like me) who tried to argue that a more moderate approach would be better was hounded off the board.

    Now we seem to have the opposite problem. All this thread was about was a survey. Many people completed the survey and just saw as it as a way to express an opinion, strongly held or not. Now the technical validity of the survey or whether a survey should even have taken place is questioned. Again, half a dozen people being very adamant and forthright and down voting post after post. Half a dozen people telling nearly a hundred that their opinions shouldn’t even have been expressed. It seems to me this forum is going the same way as the Steam forum with a small number of noisy people dictating what can and can’t be said.

    So in of itself down voting is part of modern life. But it’s part of a trend on this forum that isn’t positive. And if it ramps up it won’t end well.
     
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  42. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Lawjester thank you for your posting which demonstrates my point so well. One, don’t question DTG, two, guess (the different departments theory) and three push to have the thread closed down. Lastly insult anyone who wants to discuss things by calling them children.
     
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  43. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    My friend, all I have to say to you is that you’ve shown that this thread means so much to you that you’re not only defending the creator of it to the letter, every other post is made by you and it’s pretty hilarious. My suggestion, take a breather because this thread and yourself isn’t doing anything to improve the community and TSW.
     
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  44. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    I guess you’re right Lawjester. Time to give up on this forum and let clowns like you and MCGermanyFan have the forum to yourself. Then you can discuss to your hearts content ‘let’s guess what the next North American route will be! MTA and LIRR all the way!’. And I won’t have to read your comments on how DTG ‘waists’ their money on customer support because (sob) they won’t respond to your emails.
     
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  45. MCGermanyFan

    MCGermanyFan Well-Known Member

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    Why are you now dragging me into this? I never complained about customer support, actually I've talked to him recently.
    But we could also leave the forum to clowns like you who only see the bad things and never, ever look at both sides.
     
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  46. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    That’s funny actually, that I’ve never complained once about customer support and you’re trying to use it to attack me again. Well my friend, you have a lot coming for you because you’re the only person left backing this thread and trying to put other members down, honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if you were one of those thread bumpers or something. Also, my requests and threads are very much here because that’s what forums are about, you don’t like it that’s fine, I don’t like every request on this forum either but I keep it to myself, you just can’t help yourself, can you?
     
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  47. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    This thread should be awarded the "most pretentious" crown. If fewer than 100 responses represent the common opinion of the entire membership of this forum, and any one member can claim to speak for the whole on the basis of such an absurd minority --- oh, never mind.
     
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  48. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Several people have said that the number of respondents to the poll is too low to warrant merit, yet none have articulated the actual number required for the poll to hold some validity. For someone to be sure that the number is too few requires them to have a rough idea of what a sufficient number is. If that number is unknown, then the response should be 'I don't know whether this poll has enough respondents to be valid', rather than 'it's not valid'.

    I personally don't know whether the poll is valid, but other people seem sure it isn't, yet they don't produce a set of criteria necessary for a valid poll.
     
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  49. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Active Member

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    You can bet, the editor and bug fixes are claimed by every user with the brain that works.
     
  50. MarkusLiberty

    MarkusLiberty Member

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    Sample size depends entirely on how many players TSW have, which we don't know for sure. You'd also have to determine the confidence level you're aiming for as well as the margin of error.

    It also depends on whether or not the poll is intended for the whole community, or just the forum. If it's for the forum, then 100 participants is more than enough, but if it's for the full community then it's definitely in the lower end of what you'd need. Lots of info on how to do a proper survey online through, exact numbers can be calculated easily if you have the correct input numbers.

    Either way, we all know that everyone wants the editor and bug fixes, so the results seems pretty believable. I guess the real problem is that it's not very interesting to begin with. Maybe try asking for something a little less obvious next time? Could be fun
     
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