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Initial Thoughts On The Bakerloo Line (tsw 2)

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Bakerloo, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    This evening I've spent some brief time getting to grips with the Bakerloo line on TSW 2.

    My initial thoughts below:
    Graphics are excellent, the 1972 stock looks lovely

    It's great seeing the dynamic passenger information boards.

    I was really pleased that London Road sidings is in the game (I pass it quite often at Street level).

    My main criticisms so far:
    Sound - The 1972 stock doesn't sound fully authentic. Whilst there is the distinctive 'tick tick tick' (camshaft?) sound, the motor doesn't sound right to me.

    Whilst there is a good amount of flange squealing, there is almost a complete lack of sound of the train going over track joints!

    It's ashame they don't have the authentic PSA.

    I would have liked to see the WCML in action, but realise there are license implications for that
     
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  2. rabid

    rabid Member

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    I think the sounds are fine but more clacking noise over points would definitely add atmosphere, as would a "mind the gap" on curved platform stations and a few station announcements. Overall I enjoyed my first runs on Bakerloo very much and honestly, more than I thought I would enjoy tube driving.
     
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have only ridden as a passenger so far, I will have a go at driving tomorrow. The stock and route do look great, but I did notice the lack of track joint and point work sounds which is usually quite prominent on underground trains.
     
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  4. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    The wipers are ungodly levels of loud in comparison to the rest of the train sounds which somewhat destroys the sound fix of 'well turn it up a bit', but I am enjoying it and pleasantly surprised by the number of scenarios in comparison to TSW1
     
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  5. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Yep. The wipers are very noisy.
     
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  6. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    So far having a play, it’s alright, but needs more noise! Too quiet going over joints/points personally which lacks the overall underground atmosphere.

    But visually, I’m happy. The signals and the way the dispatcher works with them bugs me, but apparently that’ll be fixed with the larger timetable.
     
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  7. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Member

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    Did a southbound run, and noticed the train clips the platforms badly at Warwick Avenue and Lambeth North.
    The passengers are manic and jump on top of the roof as well.
     
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  8. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    Yes it has been good fun so far
     
  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    A replication of the Extinction Rebellions protests maybe!
     
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  10. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    I don't recall them having jetpacks, which is what you'd need to contend with the passengers on pretty well all of the surface level platforms right now ;)
     
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  11. Jesseblast

    Jesseblast New Member

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    I'm really digging the underground and its lighting looks much better now when I'm really playing it.
     
  12. bartolomaeusz

    bartolomaeusz New Member

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    To me the sound of the 1972 stock is great - I could listen to that acceleration sound all day !
     
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  13. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    Legend :D:D
     
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  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Sounds just like a subway.
     
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  15. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Well-Known Member

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    Very impressed, mostly with the lighting.....got it spot on for me. Will be on this all day tomorrow, only criticism from me is the timetable, i love a challenge but your taking the pee.....lol

    Flat out and late breaking you can just keep within a minute of the timetable but cant get ahead or anything, so when I have my smoke break I have to leave the train and wait for the next one instead of keeping mine. Would love to see longer breaks at each end or longer timetable, otherwise game and graphics are superb!
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  16. HopesAnchor131

    HopesAnchor131 Active Member

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    It would be better if the train would stop stalling and refusing to move all the time.
     
  17. jazznsf

    jazznsf Member

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    Glad I upgraded my network connection... didn't have to wait as long to take a peek! :)

    Just finished the tutorial. Looks splendid. I think it will be loads of fun. Sounds like keeping to schedule will be a challenge, that's fun though. The graphics and overall smoothness when panning the camera are very good.

    Sidenote: All of my DLC (that's been converted to date) looks to be available, so that's a great bonus too. Hats off to DTG!
     
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  18. QNS Chris

    QNS Chris Active Member

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    I've played Bakerloo a fair bit - two or three scenarios down, in addition to a few timetables - and have to say this is impressive. A lot of folks have mentioned the noise and the amount of atmosphere it adds. To quote Anthony above, it "sounds just like a subway". While I agree there could be the added noise of the track joints, this really is a fantastic start.

    I have to be honest - I was skeptical about the tunnel ambience / noise, given the somewhat sketchy and inconsistent tunnel performance on LIRR, and measured my expectations accordingly. That said, they have absolutely nailed the tunnel echo / ambience - the ungodly and unmistakable flange as the train barrels around curves, the echo and reverb inside the cabin - this is exactly the sound I was hoping for, and exactly the sound I hear(d) on my (pre-COVID) commute on the IRT every day. While I'm a native New Yorker and have never taken the London Underground, DTG has done a marvelous job with the lighting, the platforms - it all seems very real, and at that, very satisfying to me.

    If Dovetail ever decided to model a NYC Transit route, the Bakerloo line gives me total faith (and hope!) that they would, too, blow it completely out of the water.

    Well done!!
     
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  19. jazznsf

    jazznsf Member

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    So far, so good! With all due respect to the storied NYC Transit system, I would love to see a representation of the BART system we use in the San Francisco Bay Area. The Bakerloo line has aspects that remind me of BART, so it seems like it could be done. In the meantime, I'll practice keeping to schedule on the Bakerloo line. Very enjoyable!
     
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  20. QNS Chris

    QNS Chris Active Member

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    I'd love to see a BART route as well! The first time I played Caltrain, I was disappointed (even though I knew it wasn't going to happen) that there were no BART trains at Millbrae. BART has the perfect diversity of scenery (urban, rural, industrial, suburban, expressway) and profile (undergound, at-grade, above grade) along with high speeds - all of these would play extremely well on TSW/2.

    Also, I agree with you on the Bakerloo being reminiscent of BART - especially the noise in the tunnels. When I first heard '72 stock at speed going around a curve, the echo / loudness reminded me of the cabin of a Rohr train under Market Street.
     
  21. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Active Member

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    Okay, I know I'm frequently critical of DTG and how they handle routes/patches, but... I've been playing Bakerloo on and off throughout the day, and it's really surprised me with the general level of quality. The sound is fantastic, although I wish it was louder in the passenger cabin (the windows down in the drivers' cab sounds pretty much exactly how I remember the Piccadilly Line sounding from the passenger compartment). The revamped sound engine is GREAT, the reverb in the tunnel sounds proper good. Passenger lights flickering on and off through the junctions/3rd rail gaps is a great touch. In general, the sounds and lighting are spot on.

    There are some minor annoyances. The trains clip quite severely through the platform at Warwick Avenue; the hood of the platform CCTV monitors clips through the train at Harlesden (Southbound Platform, for sure, not certain about NB yet). Sometimes, the PIS screens at the stations are just blank or don't update properly (in one walk-through exploration, I had three trains all listed with no time; the third train arrived to Queen's Park, but the signs didn't update nor was there a *Train approaching* warning). Scenario #2(3?) with the switchback to Queen's Park, the train number on both ends was blank in my playthrough. I'm still missing the rumble of the doors closing, they just sort of glide peacefully until you get the ker-clunk of the doors locking. Obviously, the omission of the Automated Voice Announcer is a little sad, as is the lack of "Mind the Gap." warnings at curved platforms.

    But overall, I'm quite impressed. I haven't even touched Schnellfahrstrecke or the updated Sand Patch Grade yet.
     
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  22. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    When I saw this yesterday (standing near one of the sidings in Queens Park), I was super impressed. I hadn't realised they modelled that.

    Awesome stuff
     
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  23. argyle_smurf

    argyle_smurf Member

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    I'm impressed. The sounds are pretty spot on for me, yes the points clatter could be louder but it could be a lot worse. The running times are dreadful though. Imagine being an actual driver on this with no layover at either end, no bathroom breaks, chasing time constantly. I've driven buses like that and it's no fun at all
     
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  24. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    If you all who have NEVER set foot on the tube before please don’t say such things, it’s like me saying about the New York subway when never ridden on it at all. Berlin U Bahn i’ve been on and compared to the tube, is silent!

    Watch the video, the rapid speed of our tube trains, the lights going off due to rail gaps at junctions, the utter shuddering of the windows on the 1972 stock is missing. It’s UE4s audio channels i am guessing to be the factor as Im not sure how many sounds can be assigned at one time.
     
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  25. Dominik Tuchowicz

    Dominik Tuchowicz Member

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    It's normal to swap trains on underground. It's to allow drivers time to walk around while other driver is ready in front to pick up the train to vacate sidings.
     
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  26. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    I had a go as passenger for a bit, I'm pleased with it, better than what I expected and am loving the information screens.

    However... the sounds......I'm sorry but they are dreadful. I really don't get the impression I'm travelling underground and there seems to be hardly any track joint sounds, if they are there, they are too damned quiet. The video a couple posts above shows what sounds should be like.

    I'm looking forward to the extra services being implemented to give it more life.

    Overall pleased but please do something about the sounds, it's a let down.
     
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  27. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Having only been in passenger mode so far, I got the impression of rapid acceleration that you get on the underground and the lights do go off due to gaps in the third rail. The sounds are decent, having been on the undergound a few times, it sounds like an underground train to me, however I will reiterate the rail joint sounds should be louder. It would be great to get details like windows shuddering but I suspect that would be asking too much and could also be something which could annoy some players.
     
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  28. olsbyn

    olsbyn Member

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    I like this line a lot, what I miss is like others have mentioned: louder joint sounds, the window wiper volume should be a bit more quiet. I also miss the "Mind the gap" announcements, and last: a proper manual to learn signals and safety systems.
     
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  29. tinblue

    tinblue New Member

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    The screeching is overkill to the point of ridiculous. There are no sounds of the wheels going along the track. Sometimes when coasting as either the driver or especially a passenger, it's just stupidly quiet. Apart from the aforementioned constant screeching.

    The train sounds nothing like it does in real life. Compare this video to the game... Lots of echo, lots of rattling. Compressor sounds. Rumbles from the tunnel. It's all missing. But even at a very basic level, the traction engine sound in game is nothing like the 72 stock.



    This route badly needs a audio overhaul. I get they were restricted by Covid and not able to go out to do real recordings but I hope this isn't gonna be left like this.

    And don't get me started on lack of announcements. I hope this comes too.

    I wish I didn't have to be so critical but the lack of attention to detail leaves this route as lackluster as the World of Subways London Underground. That's a decade old game. TSW2 is supposed to be a next gen train simulator. Don't get me wrong it looks nice in 4K with everything maxed out but in someways the Bakerloo is far more run down and dirty in real life. The lack of announcements both in carriage (next train.. etc..) and platform (mind the gap etc..) is unforgivable. The lack of good atmospheric audio lets it down big time.

    Dovetail seem to have a history of this issue.. people care as much about audio as they do graphics. Yet everything about TSW and TSW2 lacks in this area.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  30. tinblue

    tinblue New Member

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    It's a bit ridiculous when the wiper sound is noisier than the train.
     
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  31. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I'd forgotten about the daft aspect ratio in TSW. Played it for about 15 minutes, switched it off. That's TSW2 finished with.
     
  32. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    I actually think the flange is the best thing about the sounds in all honesty. The sound of accelerating is good but as previously mentioned is far too quiet in the cab whilst the wipers are earth shattering loud when the volume is adjusted to compensate for this. Even with the volume boosted I can barely hear any track sound at all, compare this to ricketing along the WSR in TSW1 (in terms of sound) and it's simply not good enough. If you are stopped there is little to no sound coming from either end of the train but the familiar hum comes from the penultimate carriage at either end which is disappointing as you would never hear it if you stay in the cab. If you are at a station with the doors open and an announcement at the station is playing or a train is going through on the other platform, as soon as you walk onto the train (with the doors still open) the sound practically disappears (for clarity I mean it is EXTREMELY quiet, not actually disappearing). This is so immersion breaking by...a big factor. OMSI got that right with the windows and doors nearly ten years ago. We have it with windows, why not with doors. Again, I should not be forced into driving with windows open just so I can hear the sound of the train at a none immersion breaking level of balance.

    If I do the impossible and leave the sound aside, it's a lot of fun to drive up and down for me, the timetable is a nice challenge and keeps you engaged driving. The scenarios are still fairly basic as they were in TSW1, no chasing yellows except for an empty stock move and when that happened I had to sit at a red light for ten minutes before being allowed into the depot as the signaller is in no way dynamic. There is no doubt that it's a very pretty game, suffers from stuttering for me above ground but only after prolonged periods of playing. It bugs me that they've made the monitors collectables but if you stop in realistic places (right next to the monitors) you can't actually get to the monitors! Those little gates on the platform aren't operable and you can't get out the front door and climb up the platform as a workaround because they disabled the front door...granted that would probably kill you in real life so we can't moan too much about that, but still it's annoying.

    Is it fun for me? Yes
    Is it high quality visuals? Yes
    Is it high quality sound? NO
    Is it high quality levels of immersion and simulation? No
    Is it very different from TSW1 in terms of level of detail and gameplay? Nope, braking in the rain is about the only difference here
    Do visual bugs that existed in TSW1 persist in TSW2? Yup, see trees in the snow and motion blur and if anything with the additional passengers there are extra visual bugs to behold here (mainly rocket people)
    Are the lacklustre manuals that DTG have promised to improve improved for the release of a brand new game? Absolutely not. Just for the Bakerloo line there's no information about signalling or actually showing a labelled diagram of the cabin (something which is available in absolutely every simulation game I have ever played). Yes it tells you what to do but it barely tells you where those things are and the in game tutorial gets you moving with a mainly set up train. No starting from 'cold and dark' (or the closest you can get) here, which leaves certain things to be only explained through livestreams and YouTube videos.
    Does the fact that it's fun to play for me excuse all of the faults? Well that's a discussion one has to have with oneself. I'm enjoying it, but I know I could enjoy it a lot more if simple things were resolved and IF the SOUND were BETTER and properly BALANCED. I'll never drive this line with rain or snow enabled because the wipers are just ridiculous.
     
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  33. argyle_smurf

    argyle_smurf Member

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    Literally the first activity on the LU 'journey' is a cold and dark tutorial
     
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  34. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    It’s not though is it, it doesn’t show you how to put the passenger lights on or the headlights/taillights or to change the destination board, or turn on the gauge lights, or how to open the windows without breaking your train. It does the bare minimum to get you moving, and that’s it. It doesn’t show you (or tell you in the manual) how the brake test works or the run back test works. Granted it’s unlikely, but it also doesn’t tell you how to reverse either. It’s not exactly showing you how the train works, it’s showing you how to move the train and that’s the tutorial.
     
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  35. newton_sam

    newton_sam New Member

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    All seems very good initially, the intensity may be daunting at first but that's what it's like in real life.

    A few disappointments are the lack of passenger information system to set up and operate with announcements, etc, and the disabled cab end door and steps at the front (easy fix surely?) which takes away from the realism a bit.

    Having seen a few videos from London Road depot in the morning, the train crew always use the front steps and cab end door to enter the train before it is in service. But overall this should be a very satisfying route.
     
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  36. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    As more of an occasional user than most who post I spent some time on the Bakerloo yesterday. Generally to me it seemed an improvement on TSW in look and feel and visually it’s good. I did wonder how interesting the Bakerloo would be over time, but that’s generally been an issue for me over the TSW routes given their length compared with TSxxxx.

    I think its good enough to retain the current TSW1 user base. If nothing else there’s no too much of a difference between the two products.

    If all Dovetail need for it to be a commercial success it to continue to retain the current user base then it’s probably fine. However I’m not convinced it will expand the user base. I know that many on here get excited about the idea of say an IOW route for example but I’d question if that will bring many new users. One test I guess will be how many new posters turn up on this forum.

    One issue DTG are creating for themselves is the number of products they have competing against themselves. Obviously on here everyone understands the differences and lineage of TSxxxx, TSW1 and TSW2. To the casual buyer on Steam looking for a Train game to buy they won’t have that background. What should they choose? Both TS2020 and TSW2020 sound like recent releases but of course TSW2 is the most up to date offering. How does the casual buyer know that? Does TSW2 become TSW2021 next year?
     
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  37. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    Sound wise, the most immersive tube I've played is the 'Waterloo & City' and 'Northern Line' routes on BVE (fan made routes on a free sim). The Northern Line includes all the PSA station announcements and it's super immersive.

    I have previously made sound recordings when I was on the Bakerloo line. So will play some sounds (fan etc) for added immersion
     
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  38. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Active Member

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    Play the 0611 Harrow and Wealdstone - Elephant & Castle Service.

    Just done it myself, very immersive, fair amount of AI, plus following an AI so plenty of adverse signals.

    Very fun, something which we’ve not had really in TSW until now.
     
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  39. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I gave it my money and time, but the aspect ratio, insane menu systems and awkward sounds have ensured that TSW2 will remain shelved. I'd ask for a refund, but I want to support DTG through this little debacle.

    Can't believe the team are having to rework all the old TSW routes for this. Poor sods.
     
  40. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with the aspect ratio?
     
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  41. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Active Member

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    I have literally no idea. Maybe the other user is playing on a non-widescreen monitor...?
     
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  42. argyle_smurf

    argyle_smurf Member

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    I have been wondering about that...
     
  43. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I'm playing at ultra, 4k on a 55" LG OLED panel.

    The aspect ratio of the locomotives is wider than it should be. It is not to scale.
     
  44. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you are playing on a wrong resolution then. I've never seen anyone complaing about a wrong aspect ratio. But maybe you could provide some screenshots of what you are talking about?
     
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  45. ehrenholt

    ehrenholt Active Member

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    and there is only one speed setting
     
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  46. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    It's been mentioned in these forums as far back as a couple of years ago. The loco's in TSW/TSW2 are not built to the same aspect ratio of the loco's in TS.
     
  47. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    We still don't know what you mean by that. Care to explain?
     
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Is that inaccurate? A lot of cars of that period only had one wiper setting.
     
  49. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Active Member

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    Do you have AI traffic on bakerloo services ? by me seem to be the last Tube on the earth :(
     
  50. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    Yes, from the short time I've played the game so far I've seen a couple of services
     

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