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Initial Thoughts On The Bakerloo Line (tsw 2)

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Bakerloo, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    The game let me drive the line for about 25 minutes last before deciding that it was time for me to stop playing.

    I'm not sure what positive or negative criticism I can give the route seeing as I'm only able to see glimpses of what it has to offer.
     
  2. lowlifemushroom69

    lowlifemushroom69 New Member

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    Does anyone else feel that the brightness is a bit too dim? I can barely see 3 feet in front of the cab, and there are zero lights in the tunnels. Also, I feel that a couple of stations are way too curved in relation to their real-life counterpart.
     
  3. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    I think the level of light in the cab is fairly realistic. I can't speak for the curves but they seem pretty close
     
  4. tinblue

    tinblue Member

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    It's not realistic at all. I've been in a Cab many times and it's not this bad. There is at least a little ambient light generated from a combination of the various lights and displays and the outside headlights themselves. It's absolutely not pitch black to the point you can't see in front of your nose. This light issue also contributes to how unrealistic the tunnels look outside the windows when riding the line as a passenger. In real life you can see the texture of the tunnels going by quite easily and also the various wires that traverse the tunnels. In the game it's just black and worse than that, glitchy.

    And you can see much further into the tunnel in real life. The nonsense spouted in one of the livestreams by Matt that when filming cab rides they have special lights mounted on the front of the train is rubbish. The driver has to be able to see what is in front of him, to say otherwise is just incorrect. This video below is a regular person taking a cab ride. As you can see the lights on the trains are more powerful than this game seems to potray. And I can vouch for this as I have been in cabs also and you can see much further down the tunnel.

    The ambient lighting on this route is just plain wrong. Too dark and needs adjusting. Better still give us the option to adjust it to our liking.

     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
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  5. Dominik Tuchowicz

    Dominik Tuchowicz Member

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    As I know how it looks from driver cab, from different stocks in London and Paris metros, it is so dark that it would NOT pass the certification to be put on rails not speaking of service mode.
    Lights in-game are widespread but short, its opposite IRL, it goes forward and a bit on sides to illuminate signs and rails, as a Tube driver has to watch for damages/obstacles as well. Do You really think that the tube driver with 200 peoples goes under dark blind?
    :o:o:o

    BTW it's not even lights but technically it seems like a black filter put on lights to darken the distance.
    It is maybe an omission but there is a part of the tunnel it seems ultra reastically for a moment.
    Like it should look on the whole line.

    Also a rail is metal polished by wheels, it shines with a little of light coming on it. Spot an error.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
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  6. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    This evening I spent some time exploring the underground stations by foot. Overall I'm amazed just how good they look, and how near they are to the real thing. Full credit to the team.
    Train Sim World 2®   22_08_2020 22_35_59.png Train Sim World 2®   22_08_2020 22_42_44.png Train Sim World 2®   22_08_2020 22_37_33.png
     
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  7. Dominik Tuchowicz

    Dominik Tuchowicz Member

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    Yeah, the modelling is world class top.
    Lightning apparently fixed by new UE4 version upgrade however leaves all the project on Bakerloo Line screwed up by far.
    We were speaking about unplayable dark tunnels which have nothing to do with reality.

    To be honest it isn't bright but it isn't blind dark either. At least you can see some signage in front quicker than 1 yard in front.
    So stop throwing the money and worshipping them if they screwed up, just because their designer and modellers are just brilliant and exemplary, while their programmers team are crappy or understaffed or just not enough.

    I even wonder if their modellers aren't pissed off because of that inside the team, no matter the terms to put the project alive or greediness or shareholders as a common thing in the UK.

    They made a brilliant work. But it seems like for 50 modellers there is one programmer.
    And marketing team are the best in the world as well.

    BTW did you received the game for free to glorifying them as a whole team?
    I have proofs from Steam that they gave plenty of copies on Steam against excellent reviews.
    Where are the announcements, traffic, boarding/deboarding passengers according to station busyness, train in front delayed, we got that already 15 years ago.
    Also tube corridors have more stuff than just tiles between platforms.
    Again I give my "chapeau bas" for designers and modellers.
    While the people's won't expect more than that, we will have just a tons of DLC's at a price of the whole game, without new features and will get a new TSW every year with few patches.
    Arcade will be called Simulation, and they are not Indies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  8. jazznsf

    jazznsf Member

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    I have AI traffic. The biggest challenge is staying on schedule. If you get behind at even one stop you're behind for the rest of the run. Practice, practice, practice. :)
     
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  9. jazznsf

    jazznsf Member

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    I know there has been some complaining about the sounds, but I have to say, the sound of the trains in the tube is great. I ride BART quite a bit (well, not these days) and the sound of the approaching trains is so similar. And the climb up to speed. And the flanges in the turns. It makes me smile. It's been a blast so far. Job well done!

    I'll explore the stations next. That sounds like lots of fun too!
     
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  10. Dominik Tuchowicz

    Dominik Tuchowicz Member

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    Did you rided on Bakerloo Line?
    If not any other metro / tubes sounding differently and there is much lacks in sim as well in terms of audio. They got some sounds with reverb effects and all guys thinks it's a reworked audio.
    On the tube and metro there is a sound of track joints, like on older tracks or older trains. It is almost absent here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  11. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    No I bought it as soon as it got released.

    If you look at my opening post you'll notice that I criticised various aspects of the sound. In my experience sound is just as important as (the excellent) graphics
     
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  12. Bakerloo

    Bakerloo Member

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    Unfortunately the 1972 stock in the sim overall doesn't sound much like the real thing. I've been on the Bakerloo line many times and made audio recordings which I've recently referred back to.

    Had the audio been authentic, had it included the official passenger announcements, 'mind the gap' announcements in stations, and clatter of the wheel on rails, it would strengthen it considerably
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Translated as, "I disagree therefore I will use conspiracy theories and allegations of inducements to try and belittle your argument".

    Just accept that not everyone is as bitter as you are!
     
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  14. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I totally agree. The detail of the stations is amazing, they look very realistic and I can tell a lot of effort has been put into them. There's one thing I've noticed though, the platform gap at Waterloo is pushing it a bit at what seems over two feet wide in some places.
     
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  15. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    i'm really happy with the detail i have hiccups every so often with the game freezing but it's manageable not surprised seeing my console is pretty old now in terms of tech and use to be honest i was expecting allot less quality and performance hopefully when i upgrade it the game should run smooth.
     
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  16. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    For me the lighting in the tunnels isn’t the biggest bug bear, sure if there is more lighting in real life then fair enough, maybe they will change it (I doubt it). The big bug bear really has to be how the sounds have been balanced. If you pay close attention to them, all the sounds are pretty well there (including the much sought after track clatter) it’s just balanced really badly and I don’t know why. The modelling generally looks really nice, the underground stations especially.
    Equally, just because someone enjoys it doesn’t mean they must have got the product for free. I paid for Railworks years ago, I paid for TSW1 and I paid for TSW2, if anyone has the right to be bitter it’s probably me but actually I’m still enjoying playing TSW2 - despite the flaws. I just wish it was slightly better with some actual new gameplay features, but I can still enjoy it for what it is. If you’d paid £21.99 for a new game that gave you all of this new without any of the history behind DTG or TSW I dare say you’d be very happy with the product given - especially given the cost of simulation games these days.
     
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  17. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    yeah agree sound balance is sometimes badly off one moment it's quiet then its very loud i use a soundbar for sound so wasn't sure if it could have been just that
     
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  18. HappyBasher

    HappyBasher Member

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    How do you actually switch services? I tried once, did explore on foot from a station, jumped on a train and drove it one stop, then wanted to switch to one in another direction but it wouldn't let me get into the cab, still wanting me to close the doors on the original service. Is it a case of quit and start again ? Or an option to "abandon service" I've not spotted?
     
  19. HappyBasher

    HappyBasher Member

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    So, my comments on this route. I must emphasise I really like it, the rest of this post may seem negative but I'm trying to be constructive with a spot of humour, apologies if that doesn't come across! I may be repeating a lot of what others have said.

    Overall I really like this route, I love the performance and sound of the train, it's a bugger to control but I guess that's realistic, particularly going downhill from London road trying to keep to 5mph on that steep gradient, without keep coming to a stand! At first I was driving very cautiously but now I know the performance of the train I can come in fast and brake hard (but no more than ep 2 normal unless I've misjudged it) easing off just before the end of the platform! I note the position countdown never gets to zero, the best I've had is -2ft (after which it jumps to 3ft and counts up again), I guess the marker is at the platform end and the train position is the middle of the track. The whole system seems deserted, but I just imagine I'm driving on a Sunday during the height of lockdown, and that Euston is closed for HS2 work so ECML terminates at Watford Junction! Timings are very tight, which is probably correct, and I've been over a minute late and still got 497 AP for arriving. Less on departure so maybe it's only late departures you're docked for! However It's impossible to change ends on time, I would suspect the timetable generation is set for AI where a train would just go to the siding, stop, and immediately reverse again, no faffing around trying to find the control switch and key, and then running through the train stopping to open the doors at each end (I find it quicker to open a side door and run down the track but that is probably totally prohibited!) Out of interest why can't I open the front door? It clearly says it can be used with handle in shutdown and key out, yet still it is stuck! The side doors are locked out when moving but not when stationary so you already have conditional logic for whether doors can be used. And one last thing, on some services, when ready to depart, the signal is red. The close doors instruction comes yet the signal is still read, in real life the driver would wait for it to clear, but the sim waits for the doors to clear the signal.

    Regarding speed limits, whilst the signs have been placed accurately, within the tunnel sections tube trains don't have to wait until the rear clears a sign before accelerating, the signs are placed knowing the length of the trains. Could this be simulated by actually setting the speed limit change in the track database to be a train length behind where it should be, so that when you pass the sign in the cab, the rear has passed the "actual" limit in the track and you can immediately speed up. That will help with some timings!

    I like the fact that there is a "scenario editor" but it doesn't do half as much as I was expecting. Firstly you can't start at all platforms, I'd love to start at Willsden Junction platform 2 for instance (the centre bay), or terminate in London Rd. And to be able to reverse en-route, e.g. at Paddington where there is a crossover just north of the station. Would be good to head south as far as there, change ends and head back north. I suppose in general it has to be "dumbed down" for the consoles, but for some reason I was expecting something along the lines of the MSTS activity editor (if anyone here is only enough to remember the "original" train simulator).

    Anyway apologies for my ramblings, and I don't mean to appear negative, I am overall highly satisfied with the route, fixing the things above would make me "completely satisfied" in survey speak!
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Adhesion...
     
  21. lowlifemushroom69

    lowlifemushroom69 New Member

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    In contrast, there are stations such as Warwick Ave and around 5 others that have insane clipping issues, where the train would go nearly 1 ft into the station, and even into the tunnel at certain places.
     
  22. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    What about it?
     
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  23. jazznsf

    jazznsf Member

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    On my bucket list are both the London Underground and the New York Subway system. My experience is limited to riding the BART system, so I must defer to your first-person observations.

    I'm having fun with it in any case. I think the team did a very good job with TSW2, and overall I couldn't be happier with the Bakerloo line so far. I haven't even looked at the rest of the routes yet...
     
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  24. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Someone suggested DTG consider a plugin for the audio and UE4s audio engine can’t play many sounds at once. I hope improvements are to come. It’s very difficult when you ride the tube since birth, to listen to this and think this sounds right...... It doesn’t, i will buy it because its awesome to have but it doesn’t sound like the 1972 stock
     
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  25. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Priority to fps stability :D
    And improve.
    There so much better to do with this engine.
    Just look at assetto Corsa competizion in 4k
     
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  26. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a soundmod for the Bakerloo? Someone told me there’s a thing floating about. I see it’s not taken someone long to unlock the front door!
     
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  27. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    A big issue I have with this route is that the spawn in time simply doesn't give you long enough to set up your train and move it from the depot to the station. So basically you're late running from the start because the game only give you around 30 seconds or so to do everything if you want to be on time.

    This is especially apparent it you're starting at Harrow and Wealdstone turnback sidings.
     
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  28. fabristunt

    fabristunt Active Member

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    londonmidland
    I agree, it's a TSW wide problem, but it is especially noticeable on the Bakerloo line.
     
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  29. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Best thing to do in timetable mode as well is spawn with half hour before the train is due to depart and board and take over maybe.

    Also the clipping of the train in stations and at Harlesden the platform screen clips the cab, anyone notice?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  30. fabristunt

    fabristunt Active Member

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    That's what I do too most of the time, but finding the train up and running in the depot is quite a letdown...
     
  31. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice for all timetabled modes to have a 3 to 5 minute “setup and checklist” time built in so you could verify the state of your consist. I will usually ignore the depart time and go through my checks because that is more important than some score that means nothing in reality. That is why I enjoy freight runs much more than passenger hauls - they seem less “arcadey” because you can take the time to properly set up your locomotives... isn’t that what a simulator is suppose to be about?

    But if they did provide the set-up time, I am sure we would get plenty of comments complaining about having to wait so long before the departure time... just goes to show you can not please all the people all the time.
     
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  32. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    This thread is great feedback, I'm seeing both positive and negative so thank you. I will keep track of your suggestions and issues and pass them along.
     
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  33. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Most important, have a look on technical reports section of the forum :)
     
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  34. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    As mentioned already, we really need a bit more time to set up our train on the Bakerloo Line. The game timetable does not allow us to properly set up our train without rushing. If we do things ‘properly’, we’re late from the very beginning.

    Hopefully these issues will be resolved in time for the timetable update.
     
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  35. jazznsf

    jazznsf Member

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    Agreed. You cannot change ends fast enough tp stay on schedule. Looking at the timetable it seems these is no time allotted for a mid-route end change.

    Not a complaint as much as an observation.
     
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  36. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    It's a surprisingly fun route to play (I'm enjoying it much more than I thought I would haha), but the clipping issues really need to be resolved.
     

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  37. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Another widely discussed criticism for this route is the sounds. Both the train sounds and the route sounds (tracks, stations, environment etc.) could be dramatically improved to make it feel much more immersive and realistic.

    Right now it's sounds and feels like a shy mouse compared to the real life train and route.
     
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  38. TRAX

    TRAX New Member

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    Hello !
    I’m not sure this is the right place for it, but I have a question.
    Am I the only one to experience flashing headlights on the 72 Stock ?
    In fact, I found out that with the H key, one can cycle between the right and the left headlight, a feature which is found on British mainline trains but not on Underground trains.
    This does bug me a little as we have to choose between one of two headlights instead of having both which would be more realistic and would enable better tunnel visibility.

    Also, I found out that the headlight that is then set to be off actually flashes irregularly. For example if I set the left headlight to be on, the right headlight flashes and this is very visible in tunnels.

    Am I the only one experiencing this issue ?
     
  39. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Regarding lighting, I believe when they do cab ride videos, they have some big high intensity light to really light up the tunnels. Frankly, I wouldn't trust 2 small bulbs on the front of a train to give off much light.
    I'd like it if the speed signs and signals were on the driver's side of the tunnel, so you get more time to react without relying on the HUD.
    I also think it feels a bit dead and lifeless, platforms are completely silent unless there's an announcement playing or a train in the station. I know Southerners famously don't talk to anyone they don't know, but just a bit of ambient chatter (such as groups of friends) and, of course, more passengers on the platform, would really bring the route to life.
     
  40. JeffFromTheIRS

    JeffFromTheIRS Member

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    londonmidland made a mod for station announcements and door sounds. ItsYa165 made a sound overhaul for the stock as well.
     
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  41. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    To which I knew of ages ago and have had installed a while now; thanks though! Wish Steam didn’t hog the internet all day downloading an update for TSW2, it’s not efficient to keep the PC running all the time just for an update
     
  42. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    You can close Steam and shut down your PC and it'll just pause the download, and resume when you next turn it back on/open Steam (with internet connection, obvs).
     
  43. BluePasta#4721

    BluePasta#4721 New Member

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    Bart would be a great addon since we have Caltrain already
     
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    This was covered in one of the Q&A's: those announcement recordings are copyrighted and, no, the London Underground trademark license does NOT include them. Same reason the ad posters are all fake.

    But if you really want them, there's a mod.

    There's also a mod that enables the front entry door.
     
  45. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Anyone wanting realistic station and train announcements for the Bakerloo Line, I've created mods which can be found here and here
     
  46. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    If only it was included from the start so Console Players could use them.
     
  47. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    With these sorts of things, there will always be copyright/licensing issues so the best and perhaps only way to get it is via modding. Not helpful for console users, I know.
     
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  48. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    That's unfortunate. How are Announcements a licensing issue though?
     
  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The recordings are copyrighted.
     
  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is is presumably covered by the same copyright laws which protect a singer releasing a CD of songs. Someone has been paid to use their voice to provide the announcements. Those recordings are private property I would have thought. This is partly an assumption but having an involvement in using music in my non-work activities I have a little experience of where musical recordings can be used, so I am assuming it is the same for the spoken word.
     
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