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Is This The End

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by garethjohn1379, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    The lack of an editor for TSW and the very fact that no editor will be made available to the community ever, pretty much ensures that TSW will never be in the same league as TS.

    Eventually there will be a better train simulator that takes cues from TS and its freedoms, and that is where the player base will head.
     
  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think that is largely true, Rail Simulator in it's early days was in exactly the same position, it looked better than MSTS but couldn't touch it on content. I think TSW is largely about graphics but the despatcher is better, AI can run round and shunt on TSW, the lack of the AI's ability in TS1 to do that can be very frustrating when you are making a scenario. I think the ability to walk around, despite the annoying restrictions, is another plus point.
     
  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    So they say. Will that be the case in five years, I am not so certain.
     
  4. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I find the walking simulator aspect an absolute chore, but there will be people that like it.

    I dislike the racing sim HUD.

    I dislike the clunky camera controls.

    I really don't like the frequent UE crashes.

    Even the menu music is pompous.

    Unreal is a get out of jail free card for not having to upgrade the core TS engine. And it really shows as a cheap shot way forward.

    Again, due to the legalities of using a proprietary off the shelf engine, an editor will never be available.

    TSW will never be in the same league as TS. It's a graphical showcase, bound by a billion limitations.
     
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  5. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    This is definitely not the end of Train Simulator and we nowhere near done with it. We have recently made the West Coast Mainline South which was one of the most ambitious routes we have made at 113 miles long. It has pushed the game further than it has before with amount of overhead catenary, sidings and AI. We are still finding out how much the game can handle with detail and length of route.

    More importantly we release an update to the game every year to give possible new players a fresh introductory point where we can offer some of the routes we think they'll most enjoy. It also gives existing players a less-expensive means of gaining extra content for their game.
     
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  6. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Jamie, your post, if spoken, would be music to my ears :)

    I'm discovering just how far you can push the engine myself, and it's got a lot of potential left.

    Sure, the blueprint editor struggles with very complex geometry but I'm finding ways around this. I aim to have the first Ballast Tamper for Train Simulator to market, and I'm already exceeding what I imagined possible.

    It's a very forgiving framework with some great work arounds to really push detail further.

    So yeah, thank you. Best post I've read all year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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  7. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    To conclude, with the title of the thread: Is this the end?

    The man from Del Monte says No.
     
  8. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if he was alluding to Michael Foot running the country.
     
  9. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I read what Jamie says and can't help but wonder. Does he mean it's not the end because they're just going to keep releasing new routes? Or because they're going to make actual improvements to the engine to bring it up to even remotely modern standards? Because if it's just making new routes...how long can that go on before TS really just falls TOO FAR behind? I don't think we should be asking for a commitment to keep making routes (3rd party will continue regardless), but asking for a commitment to not just push this engine as far as it can go, but to improve it so it can go further.
     
  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Only if you are living in some strange parallel universe!
     
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  11. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    That's quite likely :)
     
  12. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Do I have to? I'd rather be building trains :)
     
  13. treid09

    treid09 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more! There is still much life left in this wonderful sim, and I can think of more proof in the form of the locomotive that was just released. The SS AC4400CW pushes the boundaries of what physics and sounds in TS can be and proves that there is still untapped potential. DTG still puts good effort into their products, and I've yet to see a locomotive or route from DTG or a third-party that is without faults and bugs to be fixed, no matter how tested the product is. Third-party developers like SS, High Iron, Smokebox, Armstrong Powerhouse, Travel by Train, etc. are part of the vibrant community that breathes new life into this sim in the form of locos, enhancements, and other products, and DTG is very supportive of these efforts. The most important thing is that DTG still continues to update and bring new content to the game each year. This is all the evidence in the world that the company still cares about this franchise.
     
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  14. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    TSxx is a cash cow that DTG will milk until the cows come home.
     
  15. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Rather than just milking it dry, that cow deserves some upgrades so it can keep that fresh dairy milk flowing.

    It current has very sore udders.
     
  16. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    Updating the core of Train Simulator is far from being straightforward.

    As much as updates would be welcomed by players, anything we do runs the risk of breaking many of the add-ons that are currently enjoyed. Obviously, this is the last thing we want to do.

    Train Simulator is a community owned and developed title as much as it being a Dovetail game. Whether you're talking about the numerous 3rd parties developers who continue to innovate or the wide array of additional content stored on the Steam Workshop, this is a huge and complex ecosystem that is quite fragile. More simply, we have to tread very carefully to avoid wrecking the game for thousands of players.

    Obviously, we're still able to innovate and push the engine further with our own routes and expansions and we've no intention of stopping. Major core game updates require a lot more thought before we throw caution to the wind and update it.

    What changes will occur in the future I can't speculate on, but we're not done with Train Simulator by a long way, we just have to be very careful in how we approach it.
     
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  17. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Of course, extreme care should be taken when updating a core engine that many users rely on. However, it's not impossible, and I've witnessed some hair-raising yet groundbreaking upgrades in my time.

    The key thing to take away here is that it is absolutely worth upgrading Train Simulator. The 64-bit update was welcome, but let's be honest, it was 3 years later than it should have been. I'm absolutely certain that there is a truck load of low hanging fruit that could be blitzed through, then after that, some serious meaty updates should take place. They do include updating Dx, sorting out true multi-threading and tarting up those visuals.

    I'm sure DTG could learn a lot from Epic about how to improve the Kuju rendering engine, taking cues from Unreal.

    So yeah, re-invest for a little flourish, because the player base, the 3rd party developers and team DTG all deserve the benefits of such a thing. The player base will be wowed, which they seriously need to be. The 3rd party devs will likely see an uptake of sales. And last but not least, DTG will see a considerable bump in that bottom line.

    Train Simulator is the king of train simulators. Time it got treated that way.
     
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  18. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Most important thing for me personally with an update to TS's core would be performance on modern hardware and being able to have higher res textures without crashing the dang game lol.
     
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  19. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    why not take train simulator strip it to the core then update core then make import program where you can import your old ts20xxxx content to new ts program. do few tests see if it works then release the new ts program with old to new ts importer that way user can import content that they like to new ts game. i donno how trainz dose it but working for them.
     
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  20. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    DTG Jamie question can you still add features to the blueprint editor, or will that break the game?
     
  21. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I'll bet it could be redesigned to support more complex geometry without too much fuss.
     
  22. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The majority of the playerbase?
     
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  23. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested in the idea of a conversion tool to upgrade routes. This is an idea worth exploring. Maybe even worth exploring with AI.
     
  24. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    I doubt whether DTG will want to tweak TS too much. If the graphics came near to matching TSW then TSW loses its' usp.
     
  25. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but I'm more inclined to believe that TSW2's strength is in being a cash cow for the console market, and with the next gen looming, things are only going to get better for TSW on console.

    Train Simulator is the mutts nuts for PC's and because of its Meccano or Lego like nature, it's a fully fleshed out hobby for rail enthusiasts.

    TSW for that sofa time.

    TS for that full hobby experience.

    However, my rig is hooked up to my LG so the full hobby experience can also be sofa time :)
     
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