This is the WCML at Watford Gap running alongside the M1 (image taken from Wikipedia)... I certainly think it's Rivets work, as this no where near looks like the route in the game... not even a passing resemblance.
As said many times before it's not as if Rivets shoddy work come as a surprise, they have a huge back catalogue of issues with every one of their add ons that needs fixing. DTG with all this prior knowledge still let them lay their hands on it! It could of well been a genuine mistake and error on DTGs behalf, or it could be a case of Rivet were the cheapest option to outsource work to and DTG thought the community would just suck it up and accept it. I'm glad they've seen the issues and have committed to fixing them properly and that's all we can ask for. Hopefully this will be a lesson for them moving forwards. But yes ultimately DTG are the ones completely responsible for this release, particularly when it's a flagship route to the newest edition of TSW.
Yeah I think outsourcing some of the problems Rivet have on some of their routes is a good idea. Just look at the recent update for WCML on PC, modders have done an incredible job there and could easily improve existing Rivet routes if they were given permission.
Surprise surprise. Rivet actually bought the sounds from AP. However, it sounds wrong because the physics were wrong. In tsw, sounds and physics are tied together so if one is off, both are off
the sounds for the 150 were bought from armstrong powerhouse. However, they sound incorrect because the physics was implemented incorrectly from the start. Sounds and physics are tied together in tsw through simugraph, so if physics is wrong, sounds are wrong. The only way the 150 can be fixed is to rebuild it from scratch with the correct physics
they definitely sound awful for AP sounds and the psychics are bad definitely need a better class 150
I had to look out of pure curiosity, and it actually isn't. It's near the village of Watford (not to be confused with Watford, London), between Milton Keynes and Rugby. I actually thought it was somewhere near Watford Junction, guess that's something I've learned today.
Hands up on that one, my bad! I thought it was one of the sections of motorway that runs along the WCML in the game (there are a few). I still stand by my point to some extent, the the motorway sections in game that run alongside it bare absolutely no resemblance to the real life counterpart... just before Milton Keynes is a other example.
Think you will find at Milton Keynes, it's the dual carriageway A5, not the M1. AFAIR the M1 only starts to parallel the WCML at Buckby Wharf north of Weedon to the Watford Gap Service Area (sometime known as Blue Boar). All on the section we never got, though should have, with this route.
Well, 4 months later and the OP comment is still absolutely accurate. The game in itself would be comedic gold, if it weren't so BLOODY aggrivating, because it's every bit (and more) as horrible junk that the OP claimed. Absolute Bloody Junk.
Which OP? The one crying that DTG is bankrupt and doomed, or the one making fun of that guy? Realistically neither is the actual "OP" they were both replying to someone else's thread so you must be referring to one of those.
I enjoy the TSW4 elements of it, with the previous titles add ons, but not enjoying TSW5 or it's UK content at all. Each to their own though.
I think TSW5 is actually excellent. WCMLS was way below par (and, let’s face it, still is) but we know why, whatever the rights and wrongs of that were. On the other side of that coin, the DTG built routes are the best built routes we’ve seen in the game, not only in terms of the route building but the depth and quality of assets that are in use, particularly on San Bernadino and Boston - Worcester. The level of detail on both those routes is at a point that it surpasses everything else by some margin, and I include the JT built routes in that. That’s not a criticism of JT by the way as they’re only on their second product and what they’ve achieved is astounding, but the asset bank for 80’s UK stuff is relatively small and outdated by comparison, and it really shows. These last 2 US routes, however, are a very impressive benchmark going forward in my opinion. I can’t take calling it ‘junk’ seriously, it’s a ridiculous comment. If you’re going to say it though, then go ahead and justify the label… If this is junk then I give up...
I've experienced less crashes on TSW5 than I did on TSW4, For the most part for me it's a decent game. I just avoid WCML south for now and there's plenty of choice anyway with my DLCs.
Yes, though it would be nice if the cars were actually on the roadway instead of floating above it? And what's with the double yellows and the street markings looking so odd. There are other scenery problems, particularly on San Bernadino.
The cars thing I’ll give you but come on, it’s not a road markings simulator. I’ve driven SB extensively over the last day or so and I’ve not noticed anything untoward. The cars issue looks like it’s improved since first release. Both those US routes specifically are amazingly well built, to a level I think we’ve barely seen before. It’s obvious that considerable effort has gone into making tens, if not hundreds, of bespoke assets and whoever has put them together into a coherent route deserves the recognition for it. Picking at minute things on routes of that scale and quality is just nit-picking in the extreme. WCMLS was a huge disappointment and not good enough granted but San Bernadino and Frankfurt - Fulda were both excellent, and Boston - Worcester is the same. TSW5 is clearly the best iteration of this game and it is constantly moving in the right direction. I’ve been very critical in the past, probably unfairly so at times but a lot of the time justifiably, but you have to recognise that the product in front of you is now very good indeed, and the screenshots from the upcoming DTG built routes look equally good. There are still issues, no one is denying that, but there is no other train sim that comes close now in my opinion and to suggest it is ‘junk’ is just something that can’t be taken seriously.
Yes, I agree, it's certainly not " junk " or anything close to it. But I question whether it's " the best iteration " of the game. Are the present routes better than SPG and GWE? Are they even an improvement over the Rush Hour routes? Do you really value the gimmicky features we have now, like the funky eye adaptation or the route hopping? And what of the stream of electric locos, some of which are not far from Thomas in required driving skill? And the exclusion of steam traction and heavy diesel and freight? I certainly still enjoy the game generally, but things aren't as rosy as you seem to believe. And " floating cars " and other structures plus trains plowing into cars at grade crossings are not nitpicking or rivet counting. They're serious immersion killers that have gone uncorrected at least since Cajon. Take another look at Sand Patch and then compare it with recent American routes and tell me the game is heading in the right direction. At the most charitable, it's on a plateau.
Whilst the TSW5 routes are very good, they still don’t compete with Blackpool branches or WCML Preston to Carlisle which are superb with attention to detail. I get more crashes on TSW5 than on TSW4 and do not want to move to TSW6
Sand Patch came when that was about all there was and they spent years developing it. Comparing it to dozens of routes done in much less time isn't exactly fair. Arguably they are TSW 5 routes though. Preston-Carlisle was made specifically for TSW 5 and Blackpool is late TSW 4/updated to TSW 5.
I disagree, and it’s demonstrably the case. There is far more detail in San Bernardino (I haven’t played Boston - Worcester enough to stand squarely behind that yet) than in both JT routes. To re-iterate, both JT routes are excellent and JT will only get better, but both routes are simply not as detailed as San Bernadino. That is in part down to the assets available to JT, but you only have to play the routes for half an hour each to see what I’m talking about. The amount of detail in San Bernadino is staggering Crosstie - Are the present routes better than SPG and GWE? Apples and Oranges, but yes they are. Granted, for their time SPG & GWE were the best examples out there but they are dated now. I’m excited to see the GWE remaster however. - Are they even an improvement over the Rush Hour routes? Without question, in a different league - Do you really value the gimmicky features we have now, like the funky eye adaptation or the route hopping? I’m not bothered about route hopping. I’d rather see joined routes to be honest but route hopping isn’t hurting anyone, I doubt many people ever use it. Eye adaption isn’t gimmicky, it’s fundamental to the whole lighting system in the game and is part of UE4 itself. I think I’ve probably complained more than anyone about some of its uglier effects and taken more steps to try and resolve it through a mod, but the game is immeasurably better for its existence. I never touch non-ToDv4 routes now because they look so abysmal by comparison and they remain installed only for layering. I was totally wrong about PhotoMode, that was a great addition, as was Journey Mode, Training Centre, Volumetric Fog (absolutely fundamental to the game imho), and so on. - And what of the stream of electric locos, some of which are not far from Thomas in required driving skill? That’s largely how they are in the real world, and clearly what sells best. Like it or not, that matters. At the risk of upsetting people, trains aren’t exactly hard to drive. I don’t know what more you expect DTG to do in that regard? - And the exclusion of steam traction and heavy diesel and freight? Again, it comes down to what sells. DTG clearly feel one genre does and one genre doesn’t, who are we to argue with that? They will stand or fall by the result, but given the game’s longevity I’d say they’re probably calling it right at this point
I can't play GWE now, the lighting seems very poor and the timetable is unrepresentative. There are times when there are no trains in Paddington station in the middle of the day. The remaster can't come soon enough. I hope one day all the early routes get TOD4 lighting and updated timetables where suitable.
Just found this Thread. Gonna put my thoughts on TSW 5 Guard Mode. Absolutely Abysmal release and still pretty much broken and not really too identical real life. I say that because on the 350 (only done it on 350) the Driver doesn't buzz back in which the driver should and the Cab door should be where the Conductor should be controlling the doors. I did try it on WCML OS, broken it is. Can't see any signs of being fixed. Live Map: This is one of my favourite features seeing what the train headcode is the current and target speed. Would be nice to show the service Description where is Originated and Terminates. I love the fact you can go on Live map and hover over the Platforms and tells you what time the train will terminate there and the next service to depart. Only one problem is when a train seems to be on the platform it doesn't display, so it will display but then go off in split second. Fast Travel: I really do like this option makes it quicker than having to exit game and go back onto main menu, not really had a crash with it. Great feature Route Hopping: I really like this feature but I don't want this to be an excuse to cut routes in half, on another thread I think it was operator#7940 who said it but For example We have Euston to MK, lets say if DTG were to do MK to Birmingham, it splits route in half than just one thing because we are doing a high speed run we want to stay at that high speed not stop then have to route hop onto the same service. Now onto Routes. West Coast Mainline is the only one I have really played as I am more of a UK based player. My Thoughts on it is that I am very happy we have the Class 390 and 350, would of been horrified if they released the route with No 390. When it was first released, route was abysmal and in horrendous quality. I won't say the R word but stupid decision to let them even have an inch of control with the route. Still missing lots of AI 390 services and depot service back to the depot are missing, but I know and hope Liam is getting that sorted, he has done a tremendous job on it, with everything so massive congrats to him. Love we have the full realistic LO timetable and underground timetable, the route feels so much more alive especially when doing 390 runs going past so many Overground and Underground services, Euston seems more alive as well, great to see more 8 car and 12 car services. Now my biggest disappointment and I think most here will agree is the route length, TSC one is 112 miles, TSW one is 44 miles That is -60.71% that what really gets me, has so much potential but to cut it down in that scale is not good enough, in TSW 5 now and the routes seem to be getting smaller and smaller. Hopefully with some luck the LNWR branding can make its way back to TSW as ruins a little of immersion with it being unbranded. I like the LNWR Logo and branding. Be nice if Euston Concourse had no barriers and also tones more passengers. Speaking about the Passengers, the passenger system needs a massive redo and DTG seem to not want to fix the issue at all, at Harrow and Wealdstone Passengers seem to be walking on the tracks every time I do a run with a 390. Simply not good enough, we have got actual train drivers who play TSW and they then have to experience that where they may have had unfortunate real life experiences. Really annoys me that passengers on WCML seem to just block the door at some stations, not get off at stations/terminating stops. Again Community has more than likely fed back on it millions of times but probably just been chucked into the bin.
Jetwash- I'd agree. The only legacy route I regularly play is SPG and that's because it was ahead of it's time but it's not "better" than many others now. It's about on par. Which makes sense because I do believe it was remastered. So it basically is a current route, or at least at current standards of lighting/etc. We aren't lacking in graphics quality in most routes. There are a few exceptions, but on a whole TSW 5 is the best the game has been for me both in graphics and playability. People are welcome to their own opinions...even if I don't see what they're complaining about. As for content... same thing. They can have their opinion on what there "should be more of" like steam or diesel freight, but that would clash with the other people who think there's "not enough of" something else like German EMUs. You can't please everyone. I'm not buying more modern German stuff but someone clearly is or it wouldn't be selling. That's why I often find myself going to other games to get what TSW isn't providing. Train Sim Classic for more US freight routes in general Railroader for better shunting and dynamic economy Railroads Online for steam and track building Derail Valley for deeper economics and physics realism etc I still play TSW, but don't exclusively play it as much. It's more split between the games. I wouldn't call it a "flop" by any means however. Looking back at some of the non-updated routes and seeing what "normal" was in TSW 2, I say it's come a long ways actually.
It should also be noted that what you bought with TSW5 were the routes, the game itself was given away for free.
. Well we're clearly miles apart on how we view the game.so I don't want to prolong this discussion. But I'll just make a couple of points and leave it there. 1. Your interest/concern seems to be solely about how the game looks. But it's so much more than that. What of the core and its effect on gameplay, optimization and making the game accessible to console players and others without crashing and stuttering? 2.You talk about what sells but don't seem to care much about the absence of steam, heavy diesel and freight being intrinsic, indeed the very essence of what a train simulator should be. 3. You can pick and choose the features you like but what of important ones like the save game which is 20+ years out of date. 4. I'm an admirer of your ability to mod the game to make it look and perform better than DTG has left it. But why should you have to. Shouldn't the developer be making the repairs to their own product, especially since your work cannot reach 2/3 of the player base. Sorry to say but the game has yet to reach its best iteration ( or maybe it's come and gone ).
1. It is about how the game looks. It's an image on a screen. 2. Using words like "should" is showing your opinion, not an objective statement. You WANT those things, they are important to YOU, but as Jet pointed out... not everyone is you. The game isn't just for you, but for the whole playerbase, and if the majority want something else, that's what DTG is selling them. 3. You can play the game without mods quite well. It was a personal choice on how one thing looked. You don't have to mod anything and it works fine, just like you don't have to use liveries. They're an option. Not speaking for Jetwash. Just those "criticisms" Crosstiie brings up aren't as much of the game as it is, but criticisms of the game you "wished it were instead." Two totally different things. It's easy to say that anything isn't what it could be in someone's imagination since imagination is free and unlimited....and personal. And that's the problem. What I want won't be exactly what anyone else wants. I wouldn't have German EMUs in my imaginary TSW, but there's a lot of German EMU lovers who disagree. It's about compromises.
TSW5 has sold less than 60,000 copies on Steam (estimated not confirmed), so unless it has sold much better on consoles... Yes, TSW5 is a flop. SOURCE: https://gamalytic.com/game/2967990
Well, fine, you agree with Jetwash. However I will just reiterate that a train simulator without steam, heavy diesel and freight is like an FPS without weapons. It's not what I want in the game, it's a necessity if they want to call it train simulation.
Crosstie 1. Your interest/concern seems to be solely about how the game looks. But it's so much more than that. What of gameplay, optimization and making the game accessible without crashing and stuttering to console players? The game runs as well for me as it ever has. I can't talk of consoles but as I've said repeatedly, the game cannot move forward when it is trying to be shoehorned onto hardware that just isn't up to the job. If the game doesn't run well then perhaps it's time to upgrade the hardware. If that's not an option and the game isn't satisfactory then maybe it's time to go and play something else. I started playing TSW on an iMac which was ok but just wasn't powerful enough to give me the experience I wanted. I saved up and when I had enough I went and bought a PC, and the game on my PC is great. TSW is the only game I've ever played where some of the user-base are simultaneously wanting more and more but steadfastly refusing to upgrade their hardware. It remains ludicrous that people are trying to play a fairly demanding and complex simulator in 2025 on console hardware that would be studying for it's GCSE's had it been a baby born on the day of that console's release. To put it another way, there's only so much optimisation that can be done, at some point you have to go and chat to the elephant in the room. 2.You talk about what sells but don't seem to care much about the absence of steam, heavy diesel and freight being intrinsic, indeed the very essence of what a train simulator should be. If DTG can spend 3-6 months making an add-on and a modern EMU or DMU route sells X number of units whereas a steam equivalent sells X -75% of those same units what are they going to do? I fear it's that simple. It's only my perception, but had steam sold bucketloads we would undoubtedly have seen much more in that regard. That fact that we haven't tells us all we need to know. 3. You can pick and choose the features you like but what of important ones like the save game which is 20+ years out of date I agree. There are still issues (which I said above) and things like the save are not good enough. 4. I'm an admirer of your ability to mod the game to make it look and perform better than DTG has left it. But why should you have to. Shouldn't the developer be making the repairs to their own product, especially since your work cannot reach 2/3 of the player base. Again, I agree. My game is heavily modified to look and run the way it does. Do I wish it was like this out of the box? Absolutely. I'm aware that console players don't have these options and I'll freely admit that I couldn't play the game in it's vanilla configuration. Perhaps that's where our perception differs, I suspect the game I'm playing and the game you're playing are almost two entirely different experiences. Thing is, I've modded my game since the first day I got it, so I'm comparing like for like (for me at least), and to that end this is the best it's ever been
TL-DR: "I am doing fine, screw everybody else." You could have saved yourself a wall of text with that one sentence.
Well compared to TSW 4 that has 80,000 copies... in twice the time it's been out. Nearly identical ratings at 76% too. I'd say it's about the same if compared to where TSW 4 was in it's lifecycle. We can check back in another 6 months before TSW 6 comes out and compare I suppose.
There's no Chinese trains in the game so it can never be a train simulator without Chinese trains. Therefore it's always been a complete flop because there's too many European trains in it. Right? After all it's Train Sim WORLD.... so why have so many UK trains in it at all? What about the rest of the WORLD? Total failure because it's mostly UK and German. If you want to stick to that tack of argument, then that's where that logic leads. It's no more a hard core "simulator" than it is "worldwide"
