Honestly you just proved yourself wrong and did exactly what you accuse him of doing. Saying the game "doesn't always crash" is correct even if it doesn't crash one time since that's "not always." You on the other hand are saying the opposite which is it "always crashes" which it obviously doesn't since the vast majority of people play all the time and it doesn't crash. So it's weird you'd try to gaslight people and lie, accusing others of what you yourself are doing. That's dishonest. It hurts your case to be fair since when talking in falsehoods people take any valid criticism from you as untrue or irrelevant. Now if you'd said something like "it sometimes crashes on a few machines and we need too fix that" then that's a valid position people could support. However, throwing false accusations and claims around damages your argument as well as personal reputation. I'd much prefer looking into what specific machines in what specific conditions cause problems like crashes and not false blanket statements that simply aren't true because you're angry at your specific situation.
Personally, I think TSW5 is a kinda a flop, mainly because none of the routes that come with the editions particularly interests me (it adds nothing new to my collection) and I haven't spent a penny on TSW5 yet. Bought a few older routes in a sale, but could've done so while playing TSW4. I have no clue what TSW5 new features are. Can't remember them. I probably don't use them. Although I occasionally delete an AI train if the train traffic is stuck again, which I've seen happening on several routes. (Is that one of TSW5s new features?). Happy with the free starter pack. The software certainly isn't without its flaws and I wish DTG and some third party devs would allocate more resources in fixing bugs. But, TSW as a franchise, still is the most enjoyable train simulation game I've found. All its competitors seem to have its own sets of flaws and downsides. So, I enjoy TSW5, but I could just as easily have kept playing TSW4.
Is it possible that PC TSW5 users are enjoying it more than console users? I'm in the former camp and have the benefit of access to some excellent free patches for my traction and routes. So I'm less reliant on waiting for official patches. A friend uses a PS5 and loves it and he used to be a UK railway franchise manager.
Don't think it's as binary as that. I'm a console player am enjoying it quite a lot - it's one of my top played games (although that is biased as I only have around 3 or 4 I play regularly). There are things that bug me, but I see it still as an enjoyable experience. I do often wonder though whether that's because I don't have a lot of options in regards to train sims being a console player. Maybe I'm compensating for my lack of options by finding as much good in it as possible?
I've never had the simulator crash. And the only way a developer can begin to resolve crashes is by knowing specifics of the hardware, including peripherals, software settings...
To be fair, out and out CTD’s are pretty rare for me on PC. It’s the performance issues that are the main bugbear, some of which is down to needing new hardware but equally the code seems to be misbehaving in ways it never did previously. Then there’s the whole issue of DTG’s management competence for TSW, thrown into the spotlight by the admission the new German route (so iconic I can’t remember the name, Ludwig something or other), which is releasing with known issues because it was too late to pull from sale? Well for starters someone in QA dropped an almighty dangly by signing off on it in the first place. Second, I can’t believe releases cannot be pulled at the last minute and a future date agreed with the host platform(s). What if the bug was something that chewed up the players install? Oh yes, just had that with the latest patch… And to top the icing on this cake, they still have the nerve to ask £30 for this route which comes with no new rolling stock. So from where I sit, TSW5 is looking decidedly floppy and high time someone at a senior level in DTG or Focus undertakes a review of how the project is being run.
It could be possible that the earlier 19th of July leak incidents could have affected how testing works. I imagine a much stricter code was announced. About NDA, thus leading to a smaller team to flat out bugs. Since those leaks, DTG has definitely been very hesitant about how they handle certain things.
Boy, you really like to hear yourself talk, don't you? Lol. On MY console, this game ALWAYS crashes. Every day. Several times per day. NONE of my other games do this. Not RDR2, not assetto corsa competizione, not any of the Far Cry games I play. I'm sorry that you felt it necessary to attack me for posting MY personal experience on MY gaming device but, you are simply way out of line here. I will not respond to any more on this subject. As far as I'm concerned, this topic is closed.
Which I report through THEIR interface, every time it crashes. Thanks for stating the painfully obvious and congratulations on the game never crashing for YOU.
Thank you for clarifying it is a personal issue on your system. I've offered to help, but you seem to not want assistance in cleaning it up so I guess you'll play those other games instead. That's your choice of course. Happy gaming!
Apart from the increasingly annoying hitches pauses and stuttering which I seem to remember all started with their update waaaay back to southeastern highspeeds first patch, previous to that it ran as smooth as butter! And which stops me playing TSW much and going back to the ever faithful TSC which gives me more joy. I desperately want TSW to work to an acceptable standard but I fear the only way these issues can be sorted out is moving from glitchy UE4 to 5. Manor lords appear to have done it very successfully I know it's not the same thing but it does have a world which is quite beautiful and realistic with complicated systems. I would be surprised if DTG weren't working on a UE5 future version a start from scratch one no doubt which I'm guessing which would upset a lot of TSW players as the prof said none of the current DLC could be transferred over? As for me I do not think TSW5 is a flop and there are a lot of improvements to it compared to the original TSW.
To clarify, I wasn't announcing the game never crashes for me as a way to suggest it doesn't for anyone else, nor wearing it like a badge of honour. I was simply agreeing with the person I was replying to. Also, it doesn't appear to be obvious to some people that developers need to be able to gather those specifics and also recreate conditions to fix many bugs. And I wasn't suggesting that people aren't reporting bugs, either, or giving specific details via DTG's ticket system. I know they are. I see many issues with TSW, too. I've fumed over the broken save game in the past, for instance. I also don't doubt that DTG don't perceivably act on many bugs – I know they don't because a curated scenario on one route is still broken to this day and it has been reported multiple times. And other examples. I am not for or against anyone here, either, or arguing against anyone's personal experience with the game. I feel like this should be blatantly obvious, too, though.
Is this a poll? Where can I vote "YES, I consider TSW5 a massive flop"? Well, I got it for free, so that's a small consolation
I skipped TSW 3&4 and carried on playing 2 (I said I wouldn't give DTG any more money till it looked like they were bothered with fixing things). Then they gave away 5 for free. So I tried it, and really liked, so bought some additional content. So far, I'm really happy with it, so, for me, not a flop. Who knows, maybe I'll play a route that's a bit LOVE, and change my mind. As for if it is actually a flop, it's really hard to get any details on sales figures. But, DTG seem to be releasing more stuff, so I guess they are making money, so I guess it's not really a flop for them either.
There does seem to be less activity on this forum than there used to be, maybe because I’m on TSC more these days!
Me too, I haven’t touched TSW in over a month. Currently waiting for the Tadami line and Manchester airport routes on TSW. I find TSC more immersive, especially with the on board and station announcement’s. Announcement’s are desperately needed in TSW, A.I or in-house from the devs.
You are right, TSC is a proper steak dinner with all the trimmings whilst TSW is a taco. I just treated myself to a new gaming laptop and am waiting to transfer a HD over from the dead one, there was only room for one of TSC or TSW until do, it was an easy decision; TSC every time.
Here are the top 10 train simulations compared and a bit ... to give you an idea of what's available, the differences and similarities between the sims
If I’m honest TSW5 was the release that got me least excited of all, the understandable frustration with WCMLS, another US passenger route and another modern German route mostly full of more red trains just didn’t do it for me. I hope to see more vintage/heritage rail soon. Hence why I’ve been on TSC entirely for a while. But the Japanese and Dutch routes do sound interesting for the future, also the crocodile one.
Due to a massive change in circumstances, Im playing TSW far less then I used to be able to, however when I do get a spare hour or so to unwind, TSW is still my go to game of choice. So for me, TSW5 is far from being a massive flop. We've had a couple of strong releases including possibly the best release (in WCML Preston - Carlisle) of the franchise and Im really looking forward to Cargo Lines III & IV as well as Mittenwaldbahn and the dutch route. The doom and gloom brigade will argue otherwise but TSW is only getting better with each reiteration.
I wouldn’t go that far, with each new dlc addition it adds more strain to the game. Would you call TSW5 a whopping success? It seems to be the most bug infested game to date, a lot more scenery pop in and blurrier textures. Btw I play on PS5 and PC (steam). Both systems I struggle with all the above criticisms.
Very true that the big anmounts increase with every iteration of the game, like they are feeding and multiplying on the new content.
The longer we move forward the more I debate this question honestly. The dlc being released unfinished, now apparently problems with the ATS team, the issues we've had with the core routes and stability and performance. The more I wonder about this question. Undoubtedly JT And TSG are putting in a real shift in terms of high quality content. But DTG releasing unfinished content? ATS going through an internal meltdown from the sounds of it, content all across the roadmap seeming like vaporware? For me personally the good side has been TSG, JT and SHG with their cargo line packs. But the future content on the roadmap does worry me we've not heard a lot and things are quickly moving back down the roadmap with not a lot of news. Things going from 1-3 months to TBA. The way the new DTG route released has me worried for the TFW route because I won't be buying an unfinished route if silly little things are missing. I still think flop might be a little extreme. We've had some good stuff From third parties. But I do worry about DTG at the moment and whether they're struggling more than usual with the huge community disconnects and states of releases. I hope we're not gearing up for TSW6 this year when I think we can all agree the game needs some serious work and improvement in terms of core stability and performance.
To some extent, as we’ve mentioned before, DTG shot themselves in the foot by not releasing the dev tools sooner. Then when they did, as an undocumented, incomprehensible (to many), largely unsupported mess. Then further complicated by being very buggy and no official means of cooking any created content. By contrast, seven years into the life of MSTS, the sim was thriving with both freeware and payware content and pretty much the same situation with RS/RW/TSC where the tools were available, fairly straightforward to learn and the best of the best went on to deliver the payware content enjoyed for many years.
I remember playing MSTS well into 2011. Although it's completely outdated now, the add ons released for it were so comprehensive and good. My personal favourite was Making Tracks 'Great Eastern' set in 1988/1989. I don't think I've ever been as impressed with an add on since! Funny enough MSTS seems to be taking off again to a small extent with OpenRails. It's a testament of how things can still fizzle on to some extent if they are done right. When Rail Simulator came along EA made sure it offered an evolution of the train simulator genre, and it's was a very good game. DTGs initial offering of TSW done the same thing, it initially offered a clear improvement and evolution over TSC (well minus some of the third party payware improvements offered by AP that seem to keep it going), and I'd argue that improvement and evolution lasted up until mid way through TSW4. Now they've netted the railway simulator market and have become the dominant developer of train simulation, they've been able to become complacent and have the 'shrug shoulders' attitude when being challenged on the quite obvious declining quality. Now, I've stated my reasons in other threads why I think there is a declining quality in the UK content and won't repeat it... I think DTG are very naive at this stage, and they as a company believe the take it or leave it attitude will work this time and be forgotten by players soon, so we'll only see limited improvements to the current game over the next year and not much more. DTG seem to believe they will retain the hardcore players to fund their ventures and continue to aim in the direction of the casual gamer market. What they don't anticipate is the quite evident negative cracks that have started to appear in the community over the last few weeks by the hardcore players who have finally had enough of deflated content and false promises... I think the rot may have finally started to sink in and DTG have not anticipated the hardcore communities negative kick back. In a way I hope this is the kick up the bottom they need. Now, if they are working on the next title of the game in secret, and have intentionally allowed the quality of the existing title to decay by outsourcing the work to the likes of Rivet to produce their UK routes, so they can allocate their own internal resources to build the new game, when they finally do release the next title they may find their image far to tarnished like Rivets and find it hard to attract back the hardcore retained gamers they would usually rely on through false promises and deflated content. A good example of don't bite the hand that feeds you... With all the evidence of the decline in UK content it will only take one decent competitor to decimate them (which I really don't hope for by the way). The market is comfortably cornered by DTG at the moment and this has led to complianceny. If I've read the room right, they are on a tight rope at the moment. So don't take your current players for granted is all I can say, it may come back to bite you...
You can't compare TSC and TSW. Because you can't edit or mod Console games. As soon as DTG decided to jump into the console market ( The whole reason TSW was released in the 1st place) they can no longer follow the free for all concept. Consoles have too much regulation. So their hands have been tied by Sony and MS.
They could still have enabled the feature for the PC market. And my point remains, that by having the tools in MSTS and TSC from the getgo, you ended up fairly quickly with people who could start contributing to the third party payware scene. Instead of which, seven years in we have a handful of third party crews, at least some of which don't seem very close to releasing anything or even imploding.
I see what your saying but because of the console market everything has to go through DTG as a licensed producer for PS and XBox a 3rd party would need to acquire a license to release products for themselves. Also when you look back most issues with 3rd party joining has been the tools and the certification processes for consoles. The 3rd party's need to aquire development kits for both consoles as what they make has to work across the board. And the OS systems on console work different than PC. Then you have 3rd parties like ATS who at the beginning were saying that they would never make content for TSW, until they started to see that DTG was pretty much abandoning any more development on TSC and just running support to keep it alive. The reason ATS is imploding has nothing to do with because they are making a TSW route and everything to do with poor mangement on their side. But look up how console licensing and certification is done. You will see a pretty clear picture that DTG have set this game up to be a cash cow for them. As everything has to go through them to get released, and I'm pretty sure they aren't going to do it for free since certification costs $. So unless said 3rd party wants to release something to the PC only market and sell it off steam then they are free to do that still. But then they would only be tapping into 1/3 of the market and I hear its way more complicated than TSC to build routes so would it be worth it to them. They could have avoided all this by being PC only, but then you would lose 60% of your player base and basically be back to TSC sales levels. So why even make a new game at that point. I'm on console so I am glad they are, but the console market is all about making money, not like the freedom PC users have. But overall I do agree that being on console shot tbemselves in the foot.
I fully agree, but the only problem with TSW is that a standard route addon is £30.....and I'm willing to bet that the second any fully independent freeware/payware arrives people will just stop paying those over-inflated prices. I'm no marketing tycoon but I do kind of get the impression that Dovetail Games could have reacted a little quicker to the increasing popularity of mod support, but maybe they just didn't have the expertise to do so or just thought that several years down the road they'd have evolved into some train simulator powerhouse and wouldn't need to be concerned about something as trivial as mod support. Well, for better or worse it does now look like the direction of TSW is now cast in stone so we either take it or leave it As for the game being a flop; well whether or not they needed to sell to Focus in order to maintain profit & sustainability is anyone's guess...but the fact remains that TSW still exists so it can't really be a financial flop. On the other hand, if you look at the way in which TSW has kind of rested on it's laurels (maybe stagnated) over the past few years then I suppose you could loosely argue that it has flopped by failing to fully capitalise on genre that at at one point Dovetail Games had full control over.
Love your Avatar btw. I was intrigued by the 'is TSW5 a flop' question and to get an answer you could flip it and ask is TSW5 a success? As for figures someone posted figures a couple of pages back, 60,000 or might be slightly lower. I got mine free but haven't played it yet as I'm waiting for the GWE remaster. 60,000 seems a bit low to be a success but then DTG make their money with DLC, do enough people have TSW5 to buy TSW5 DLC so the 60,000 figure might not mean much anyway. Personally I'd like them to bring the UK routes up to standard. If they had made TSW to accept mods in the early days I reckon TSW5 would be the greatest Train sim going but DTG have ready made excuses for why they don't want that. But I think we all can agree for the expensive price DTG charge for DLC no matter what route you drive on (except the French one, lol) we deserve a bit better in terms of bug fixing no?
