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Isle Of Wight Class 483 Sounds - False Advertising?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It has come to my attention that there is some misleading advertising on the Steam page product information for the Isle of Wight route.

    Not exclusive to just this route but also in other DTG routes, however focusing solely on IOW, we can see from the Steam page below it says;
    "Authentic and detailed sound recordings, recorded from the real multiple units"

    However digging through the files, you can clearly see in the screenshot below that this isn't the case, and that the 1972TS sounds from the Bakerloo Line, which weren't native to the 72TS in the first place, have been recycled:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    So why is this included in the key features section of the product when this clearly isn't the case?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  2. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Interesting detective work.
     
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  3. Aran

    Aran Member

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    While yes, it is misleading and shouldn't be there. It's pretty low on the list of errors on IoW if you ask me.
     
  4. Mich

    Mich Member

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    The answer's quite simple, they use a template, or they use another product's description as a base when writing descriptions, you can see that the same blurb is used for Rhein-Ruhr. This is nothing new, the CalTrain MP15 for example also uses the the same sound blurb as the MP36, although that doesn't use recorded sounds like the CalTrain passenger units.
     
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  5. Gae14

    Gae14 Active Member

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    Nothing new sadly (same mentions of authentic sounds on the Oakville Sub page when clearly it's old sounds) but I agree with you, this should get more attention because it's not right.
     
  6. Vinnie

    Vinnie Active Member

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    It's not the case of lack of attention IMO. It's just a Lie.
     
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  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Frankly I don't care, I don't know why people buy a route and then go looking for problems. Is there nothing good about it just all bad, or shall we just go on about the "bad" things?!

    It sounds like an ex-underground train on a rural branch line and that is good enough for me and for most people I should imagine and I do care about the sounds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  8. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Although, if only one sound is authentic and recorded, that technically meets the description. It doesn't state how much of the sounds is authentic.
     
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  9. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    ....And I also see BR483 sounds literally right below the ones you pointed out...

    Plus, Nowhere does the store page claim that 100% of sounds have been recorded from the real train. You, my friend, do not understand how false advertising works.

    You can look at my post history and see that I've been very critical of DTG at times. But threads like this make me think people are just looking for things to complain about for the thrill of it.
     
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  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I get called a "fanboy" although I have been critical many times on here and other forums of DTG and their decisions, I don't bang on about them incessantly admittedly, as I see no point and overall my experiences of both sims is positive and therefore my posts come across as generally positive.

    There are some, however, who never seem to have anything good to say and just come and complain and bash DTG. That is when it looks like they are just looking for something to complain about. If all your posts are basically biased towards angry complaints with never a good word to say, it looks like you can't find anything good to say or there no features you enjoy, or you don't want to mention them for some reason. In those cases then why are you even using the sim, if indeed you are? It can't be that bad.

    If Whatcar were test driving the new Austin Maxi and failed to mention the roomy interior, the comfy seats, the pliant hydralastic suspension and 5 speed gearbox but just went on about the unlit minor switch gear and the notchy gearchange and how BL were ripping off their customers again with a substandard product, their reviews would be laughed at and considered not worth the paper they were written on!

    A bit of balance would help newcomers in particular make an informed decision. There was a post by a newcomer to the sim yesterday who had the impression that everyone was complaining and basically was the sim worth purchasing and presumably the DTG are the devil incarnate of software providers. Is that really the impression we want to give, as it doesn't help the hobby move forward.
     
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  11. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s not about pleasing newcomers to the game, it’s about people having their own opinions, but okay. Newcomers can make their own decisions without having people to decide for them.
     
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  12. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    From what I’m hearing of the sounds, I have no complaint there other than them perhaps needing to be a little louder when in the cab, especially the whistle and track sounds. The whistle sounds lovely outside the cab, but barely audible inside - even with the windows open.
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    If you were looking to purchase TSW this may well be one of the first places you might visit. The impression that new poster got was that the sim was full of problems and there was little good about it. That might make you have second thoughts about purchasing it and quite frankly these posts are giving the wrong impression, and you may not care but without newcomers the hobby would die out.

    Obviously people should post their own opinions but is it not important to be balanced? There are some who just post endlessly negative posts, now either they think the sim is awful and presumably not even worth having installed on their system or they secretly enjoy it but for some reason don't want to project that, or they just like moaning, or maybe DTG bashing. Some seem to buy a route/stock and go looking for bugs, do they actually get any enjoyment out of the piece of DLC or do they enjoy bug hunting? If you go looking for problems you will find them and then they become the overwhelming experience. Most but not all bugs are annoyances but not show stoppers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  14. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes the motor sounds are a little quiet and I found the bridge and tunnel sounds non-existent but the sounds themselves seem fine to me.
     
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  15. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I have been very critical of IoW, but only because it has fallen short in some very obvious ways - on PS4. I still consider that unacceptable. However, it’s an obvious technical bug in terms of the graphics as the PC version looks lovely. The collectables are new an fun and the train/route are well worth having in the collection.

    I am disappointed it disappointed me, but at the end of the day it’s still got quite a lot to offer.
     
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, that click is from a different real multiple unit, I demand a refund this instant!

    I don’t think there is an intention to mislead and, as some of the sounds are recorded from the Class 483 and some others from a broadly similar multiple unit, as far as advertising laws go they are in the clear on this one. No more misleading than a serving suggestion on the packaging of a frozen ready meal. As of this point I don’t think game developers have to list their ingredients fully although some warnings about allergies and intolerances wouldn’t go amiss, especially the intolerances as there are plenty of them around.
     
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  17. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Even if there was no intention to mislead, when you sell a product you should pay attention to what you write.

    If you write this: "Authentic and detailed sound recordings, recorded from the real multiple units" I would expect the sound to be actually recorded from the BR Class 483 EMU. Which is not the case.

    They would have just rephrased that to something like: "Authentic and detailed sounds, recreated from live recordings"
     
  18. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Surely there are more important things to complain about.
    I never read the puff and only bought it after watching several streams.
     
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  19. Mich

    Mich Member

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    I really don't see how the rephrase is any better, I think a regular everyday person would still assume the exact same thing from it. And it loses what little bit of detail it had, now I could just record the door off off a random SD70, or even just me imitating a boat or and that would count as recreated from live recordings as it doesn't specify where they come from.
     
  20. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    It's a bit like what you get in the US where a brand will claim, "Made with 100% Chicken!". That does not mean 100% off the food you are buying is chicken. There may well be fillers and other BS there. However the chicken part you are buying...is chicken. Not false advertising according to US courts.

    And this DTG is far less nefarious or confusing. The train DOES feature sounds from the real thing, which is all they ever claim. The reader has chosen to make the jump to assume every single sound is new and unique. That is simply in no way what was claimed.
     
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  21. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Active Member

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    Would "Authentic and detailed sound recordings, some of which were recorded from the real multiple units" have been better to avoid doubt?
     
  22. Mich

    Mich Member

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    If you're someone new would you assume it's just talking about things like doors, or would you assume it's talking about more important things like engine noises? Some I'm sure might assume the former, probably from the vague wording, but I think most would assume the latter. Really unless you go into detail about what was and wasn't recorded and where the recordings come from then you're always going to have people that feel wronged. But lets face it, that's a tad much to be putting into a blurb meant to sell you on a product, not to mention it's detail that any casual person ain't concerned about, if anything might give them more of a headache. The short copy paste blurbs are not only way easier, they're also way better at their job, which is something quick and catchy to sell you on a product.

    I understand why people don't like them, but as noted earlier by others they aren't abnormal, and hardly illegal. Compare DTG to a lot of food companies and you'll find they're pretty much saints in comparison. Even in gaming there's been way bigger offences than anything that DTG's ever done.
     
  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't think most people, enthusiast or not are going to be that bothered!
     
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  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That’s debatable. For me, sounds make a big part of the overall gameplay experience. Especially after using various Armstrong Powerhouse products from TS1.
     
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  25. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Judging by real life videos on YouTube they sounds pretty much the same, so I don't see why complain about this.
     
  26. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Active Member

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    Sounds are biggie. They add to the immersion immensely. With bad sounds even greatest routes become boring very fast.
     
  27. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Active Member

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    Yeah when the Bakerloo line was first shown all I could hear was the TS1 Class 455 sounds that they use for basically every british EMU they've built (apart from electrostars) since, however, having listened to YouTube videos of 1972 stock, they do sound like that. I can't remember what the 483s sound like. I do agree, with this game, sounds are very important for immersion. Not so much for TS1 for me unless I know the trains.
     
  28. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Knowing the trains is important. I'd venture that most folks here have never been in an operating cabin of the overwhelming majority of trains they drive in TS and TSW. Not that that invalidated their opinion on sound, but that we need to keep things in perspective.
     
  29. InstaSim

    InstaSim Member

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    What you show here is that the Door and Horn sounds from the 72 Stock are in the IoW files. If you know anything about games development, you'll know there are occasions where developers may share assets between workloads for testing purposes. Just because they're in the file system, doesn't necessarily mean they're being used.

    Secondly, your screenshots only show that the horn and door sounds on the 72 Stock might be the horn and door sounds on the 483, which given they are both underground stock anyway, there's a good chance they'd be very much the same anyway.
     
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  30. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Just because they used to be in the same system, doesn't mean they sound the same.
     
  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they are going to be that bothered about the source of the sounds especially if they come from a train which is likely to sound very similar.

    I agree sounds are a big part of the experience, and believe me I am a stickler for realistic sounds, but I am sure there are times where compromises need to be made.

    I am sure most will make their own mind up whether to be bothered enough to contact trading standards over this though.
     
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  32. InstaSim

    InstaSim Member

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    They also clearly sound very different in the game. Maybe the whistle is similar or the same, but is that really a big problem with the Class 483? Same with the levers and doors (although the latter 2 there also have Class 483 specific sounds which can be seen in the screenshots, so I doubt very much the 72 Stock sounds are being used there)
     
  33. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I only said that just cuz the trains are from the same system doesn't mean they can't sound different. I never anything else about the sounds.
     

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