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Isle Of Wight - Is The Price Right?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by LucasLCC, Sep 30, 2020.

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  1. It's too expensive

    109 vote(s)
    53.7%
  2. It's just right

    91 vote(s)
    44.8%
  3. It's too cheap

    3 vote(s)
    1.5%
  1. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO this really comes to the one question. Does this new or any other DLC implements something new to the game. So for example some work on more complex rail operations, signaling, some new features. Like this every route feels like seen before, because the feel of driving the train is basically the same. You just get the new scenery and new loco cab graphics. Which this game should focus on is expanding and improving the railway system and also driving experience in terms of physics but also in terms of authentic sounds. So again in my opinion focusing on core features of the simulator and expanding it and improving will benefit more in the long run than just making the route DLCs.
     
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  2. michael hooley

    michael hooley Active Member

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    This is my last contribution to this post,
    Dovetail as developers Decide the selling price.
    We the customer decide whether to buy it or not.
    It is as simple as that.
     
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  3. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Both the flight sim and truck sim will let you go to different places, taking different routes.

    This is purely a straight line, predominantly single track on which you can drive from one end to the other. Pierhead to Shanklin and back again. Picking up passengers and dropping them off again. Or not in the case of TSW as we all know the passenger side of things isn't that great yet.
     
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  4. ffabio89

    ffabio89 New Member

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    [QUOTE = "longo239, post: 184351, member: 17314"] 8 miglia a 30 mph, 16 minuti da un'estremità all'altra oppure potresti rallentare e trascinarlo ancora un paio di minuti. [/ QUOTE]
    È davvero a 30 mph la linea?
    I ask only to know more details about this DLC before buy it
     
  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think you will find that you have more freedom on the road where as the driver of a train from Ryde to Shanklin doesn't have much choice!
     
  6. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

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    Köln to Aachen in the ICE3M with LZB enabled is basically acknowledging SIFA every 20s or so and people don't complain lol. I don't know what the point of comparing planes and trucks to trains is at all. That's the thing about trains, they go on tracks so they can't go where the driver wants to. Bakerloo line is also basically stopping and picking up passengers, Elephant & Castle to either Queens Park or Harrow & Wealdstone and back again. If somebody thinks the route is overpriced than that's fine with me. I just don't get the pointless complaining ''Its mostly single track'' ''A to B'' ''Straight Line''.

    It's a rural rail line on a small island with a VERY restrictive loading gauge so I don't know what people expected, freight trains? Enthusiast trains with a Class 37 + Mk1 coaches?. The DLC represents a real railway in a real place. Research the real thing and if it's not your liking, don't buy it. Devs are not going to try and add things that are not there in real life in order to please everyone. I don't have a couple DLCs purchased simply because the rolling stock/route don't interest me but you're not gonna see me complain about things that represent reality.

    Also, who is to say that in the future they will not be adding the modified D-Stock which is entering service?

    As to me, I'm buying this DLC since I want a slow, rural and short route. Views are probably going to be quite nice as well and the fact that the rolling stock is basically a modified 1938 Tube Stock are all big upsides

    Also, it doesn't look that straight after all
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a fictional tunnel under the Solent could have been added, or maybe a roller coaster at the end of Ryde pier where you could jump off the end and see if you land back on the track upright.

    That is what I am looking for not this driving trains and picking up passengers nonsense, whoever thought that up!
     
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  8. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It's really not there? Pff
     
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  9. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Good plan, you got her address? For the original IoW route some guy created the IoW network, which sets it all back in time when there was a real railway network. It would be awesome to have that back.
     
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  10. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Ladies and gentlemen, let's wait for it to be seen in action :)
     
  11. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I am not from England so I can't answer you that exactly, but I know you can actually write her and you might receive a letter back, not necessarily by the queen but at least from the residence itself.

    Hope I am not wrong about this
     
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  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Time and time again these routes keep coming out with trains that go from here to there and back again. No imagination.

    I’d settle for a fully functioning hovercraft as scenery animation, as Rivet’s response to the hot air balloon in DTG’s latest offering. I’m not expecting it to be there, by the way, in case some people think I’m actually getting my hopes up.
     
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  13. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    I've been seeing a lot of people complain and criticise the price of the route and I personally find it unfounded and here's why. Firstly, this route was at least teased before TSW2 was even released, has probably been in development for at least a few weeks, if not months. That time has involved a lot of research, probably involving research trips to the Isle of Wight as well as recording sessions for sounds. Then there's the route development time, including things like modelling, track laying, animation, programming, etc. Take all that in and then remember that a team of developers is working on this, and all that adds up in cost. The cost of making the route could be quite substantial when you take all that in, and don't forget that as software/games developers, Rivet Games don't make any money when they release nothing. So they have to recoup those costs somehow. Then people need to consider that the price you pay includes; VAT (or whichever Sales Tax is added to items you buy), Steam's Cut (30%) and DTG likely takes a cut out of it too (I use 15% in my assumptions). If you take all that in, £19.99 to you is more like £9.18 Gross Income to Rivet Games. The £9.18 needs to cover; Staff Costs, Development Costs, Research Trips, Business Costs, etc. Plus the fact that for any business to actually continue running properly, they need to make Profit, which not only allows them to stay afloat, but also allows them to make more content. So taking everything in, that £19.99 may seem high to you, but to Rivet Games could be the lowest reasonable price point they could put to make it profitable which would allow them to make more TSW2 DLC in future. In assumptions I've made before, I've calculated that they would need to sell over 2,000 units of IoW to Break Even. If the price was set as low as £14.99, that number rises above 3,000. Given how niche the Train Simulation market is, 2,000 is quite a stretch to reach, but 3,000? That would be nigh on impossible. So, if there's anything people need to take from this, don't go mindlessly criticising a price of something before it's even released. That price point is there for a reason. If it's not up to scratch then fair enough, I can understand that people will be critical of it, but all we've seen up to now is Promotional Material for the route, which never shows exactly what the final product will look like, so a little patience until some gameplay has at least been released would be very beneficial before venting unfounded criticism.

    NOT MINE BUT SAW IT ON YOUTUBE AND WANTED TO SHARE IT
    YOUTUBE: InstaSim
     
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  14. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Now that's being silly. At no point have I or anyone else suggested anything like you mentioned.

    My point is that there's no freight, no shunting, no Steam line. It's just a very short route with apparently little option for any other type of activity than traveling from one end to the other on passenger runs.

    This for me has very little replay value once it's been driven in either direction. Therefore, in my opinion, I don't feel the price they are charging represents good value for money.

    If others find that it represents good value they will buy it, but it doesn't make my opinion any less valid than theirs.

    Neither have you found anyone claiming that it's not good value for money ridiculing those who do want to buy it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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  15. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    What you are describing isn't something unique to Rivet Games, Dovetail also produces routes with all of those checkmarks. Also I would certainly hope there are many custom assets and high level of detail considering the length of the route. We shouldn't give praise to what should be the bare minimum we expect from a TSW route.


    Also given Rivet's poor track record, ie. taking months for patches to arrive, poor beta testing considering one of the bogeys was reversed and it wasn't fixed until that months overdue patch released, not to mention the shamefully bare timetable mode we got for the 204, has me really scratching my head that they think they can get away with this price.
     
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  16. 4-COR

    4-COR Active Member

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    As for the sounds, I really hope they don't end up using the class 455 sounds again...
     
  17. InstaSim

    InstaSim Member

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    Thank you for sharing my comment on the forums :) I never thought I'd ever write a comment for someone to share it elsewhere.

    Honestly, I've been getting sick and tired of hearing people take issue with the price of a route that's not even out yet. I, myself, am very happy with the price point (I was expecting the usual £24.99, but I'll admit I'm happy to see it a bit cheaper than the norm) and am looking to get the route at, or very close to, release.

    People need to realise how much work goes into things. There's more to a route's price than it's length. 8 miles may seem short, but that 8 miles has taken weeks (maybe months) to make. The development costs need to make a return, and if that means the route needs to cost £20 then so be it.

    If you bake a cake and it costs you £3 to make, you're not going to sell it for £1 because it's what the consumers want, or because it looks like a bog standard cake. You're probably going to sell it for £5 to make your money and them some so you can spend that extra money to make more cakes. The same applies here. Rivet Games have spent some amount to make the route, they need to make that cost back and make a profit so they can make more DLC for TSW2. If they can't make that return, they go out of business, and I don't think anyone wants Rivet Games to go out of business do they?
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail also recycles a lot of things between routes, so I think my point stands, and their stuff in TSx has been good. A single bogey back to front is hardly an immersion buster, but YMMV

    I'm pretty sure the patch release and scenario issues weren't down to Rivet, but I could be wrong
     
  19. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm not saying you are wrong, but the thing is... in the real world you don't go around buying stuff thinking "oh I wonder if the manufacturer is making a profit off this, I hope they are doing well". You see a product, you see a price, and decide if the product worths the price or not, given what it can offer to you.
    You buy a product for your own satisfaction, not for the wellbeing of the manufacturer/developer. You are the consumer, it's up to them to make something good enough and cheap enough for you to buy - that's how the market works.
    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be mean, obviously I wish the best to the DTG team as they seem like nice and passionate guys. But people are not going to pay high prices just because "oh poor developers can't go lower", especially when the content doesn't even justify the price (with all the bugs and issues).

    Now to stay on topic, I can't exactly tell if 20 euros is too much for it or not. It will depend on what the DLC can offer. I'm not saying they should lower the price, I'm happy to pay it as long as the route and the rolling stock ends up being good. We will see I guess. I really like this route so I hope it will live up to it's potential.
     
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  20. Valdez

    Valdez Active Member

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    It’s not about the length of the route, but more the lack of operational interest. I totally get Rivet using this route to get familiar with TSW development, and I really really want all their RhB routes in TSW so would be keen to support them, but I‘m not paying that much for a route with minimal operational interest.

    No shunting, no new signalling, safety or traction systems to learn, no route variation = no interest. Even if they’d done the heritage route and put the DTG Gronk and some coaches from WSR then that would be much much better, at least then you could run around the train and not just change cab and drive back. Would also open the door for steam later too.

    I’ll save my money and inevitably watch Matt/Sam/Jamie/Nat drive the route from end to end while being told about the roadmap and how NTP signalling will never get fixed! Will get pretty much the full Isle of Wight experience that way anyway...
     
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  21. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Well-Known Member

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    hi.


    I pay for the quality above all, if the quality is there, 25 euro is correct even for such a small line.
    Nevertheless, 20 or 22 euro seems more plosible to me because of the very short distance to be covered and also the fact that we have only one rolling stock and therefore very little to do on the course. on the contrary of course)

    I think even a 9 mile line can be sold for 30 euro if you have a lot of stuff to do on it but that won't really be the case unless it adds services with existing material such as class 52 or class 33 or even class 08 for example.

    As far as I'm concerned, being a very big collector and having all the DLCs of TSW1 and TSW2 I would take this DLC.
    I still hope for a small pre-sale discount (21.99 euro will do).

    I warmly thank Rivet game for "switching" to TSW2 and I wish them as much success as on TS, as well as DTG for that matter!

    Zawal...........
     
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  22. DK12345

    DK12345 New Member

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    Of course. These factors all affect the supply curve for the product. I don't think I've seen anybody disputing that £20 is a reasonable price from Rivet's point of view (in terms of covering costs and making a profit on top). However, costs of production have no effect on the demand curve (which determines the price that individuals are willing to pay). What does affect this is the amount of utility a person can gain from the product. Different people will assess the utility they will gain in different ways. You may feel that a good-quality, scenic route will provide high levels of utility. Others will value shunting operations and a greater variety of rolling stock (and personal financial circumstances will also play a role in determining what somebody is willing to pay for a luxury product, which a train simulator definitely is). You may feel that the route provides you sufficient utility to pay £20. Others will not. That is why the demand curve is downwards-sloping. For any product, irrespective of the costs of production, as the price increases fewer people will feel that it provides sufficient utility to justify paying that price.

    As a result of the fact that supply and demand are influenced by different factors there will always be people who are unwilling to pay the price that the firm is willing to sell its product for. If they are not willing to pay that price then there is no obligation to do so, and nor is there anything to stop them from expressing the price that they would be willing to pay. Similarly, there is no obligation for the firm to reduce their price to suit that individual's assesment of the product's value if they are unwilling to supply at that price. People who say that to them the product is not worth a certain price are not neccesarily doubting the work and expenses required to produce it. They are merely stating that they, personally, would not gain sufficient utility from it to justify paying the price. Others will have a different view, and one which is equally valid.

    I've tried to balance an accuracy with accessibility in the above explanation of the economics behind the situation, so I do apologise if one or both appear to have been compromised too much as a result.
     
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  23. subwayvaughn

    subwayvaughn Active Member

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    $20.00 to $25.00 is okay. I've payed more than $20.00 in the past for horrible games, and crappy movies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
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  24. martschuffing

    martschuffing Active Member

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    I would have bought it but having driven the TS classic version several times and being bored relatively quickly then I can't see me getting anything out of what is essentially an extremely limited and boring route, for me.

    Much better to save that £20 and put it towards the Arosa.
     
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  25. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Given the route's short length, PC users can just buy the game and probably do about 7 or 8 runs before the 2 hour refund window is up, and then refund it right after.
     
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  26. InstaSim

    InstaSim Member

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    That's a perfectly reasonable way of going about it and is completely true. The final choice for the consumer is can they afford it and do they want to buy it. If both answers are yes then they buy it, if not then they don't

    Since I have experience in business, I understand the process of choosing a level at which you set your prices. At the end of the day, the business needs to weigh the costs with potential market. If the potential market (as with TSW) is relatively small, then the price needs to be set higher to tie in with demand and make a return quicker. Ultimately, it's for the consumer to decide whether or not they buy it, of course, but I've seen too many people genuinely get very insulting over the set price (I have dealt with these insults for daring to oppose their views on the price). That, I find, unacceptable.

    The value you see in the price is up to you. Personally, I prefer passenger services to freight, so I would see more value in a passenger line than a freight line, so the IoW for me would be seen as a good investment, in my opinion. Other's aren't so keep with passenger lines and prefer freight, and that's fine too. Some people like a mixture of both. Some people like to see more AI (I admit IoW has less scope for AI due to length and most of the line being single track). The value someone sees out of the route is up to that person.

    I totally get this, as per my reply above this one. If you don't see value in the route then you probably weren't going to buy it anyway (hence the price being higher then some anticipated probably to account for those players who simply don't want the DLC). There's a lot of complexity which goes into a price, but if you have no interest in it due to the lack of variation, that's perfectly reasonable (I just take issue for people criticising the price for no reason, or for unfounded assumptions).

    Though I do admit, I also look forward to the Arosa Line as that will be a really nice route I imagine :)
     
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  27. martschuffing

    martschuffing Active Member

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    If their TS Classic route is anything to go by it should be very nice.
     
  28. DROGE

    DROGE Member

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    I'm pretty satisfied with the price and will definitely buy it. I was expecting £24.99, so a fiver saved is good. :love:

    PS.... The "8 miles for £20" comments aren't really relevent...... 8 miles of barren farmland is very different to 8 miles of urban detail.

    The route (in real life) is pretty complex for it's size. The line was 'jammed in' around a lot of existing landmarks - especially at the north end.

    We have to be realistic about commercial pricing. Regardless of route length, we're never going to see a route for less than £19.99 because of the fixed R&D costs that go into any route, regardless of length.
     
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  29. ghall59

    ghall59 Member

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    I will take the same approach I take with most downloads:-
    • Wait until it is released
    • Watch a variety of Youtube users playing it
    • Decide if it is worthwhile buying
    I'm just wondering if we need the stock for the extra services on the Bakerloo... :o
     
  30. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You won't need the stock for the extra services. It would be very unrealistic seeing NSE liveried 1938 stock running alongside 1972 stock with the current livery.
     
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  31. martschuffing

    martschuffing Active Member

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    Bet they haven't reproduced the horrendous ride quality of the route! ;)
     
  32. nwp1

    nwp1 Active Member

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    While Rivet games TSW2, IOW will possibly be released this Thursday, can I remind those that have TS2021 who do not have IOW, that in the forthcoming Hallowe’en sale at the end of this month IOW will have 75% off and will be available for between £2 to £3. This route also includes the steam add on and all stock and is really brilliant.
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/24021/Train_Simulator_Isle_of_Wight_Route_AddOn

    I will be buying this new route whatever the price but do feel it is a-bit pricy for a duplication and something under £15 would have been more acceptable given the length and all that is changed from the TSW2 format is, it is new scenery to look at and some old 1938 stock.

    If people object to paying £20 just remember it will probably have 15% discount at Xmas and about 25% in next summer’s sale.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  33. wargame99

    wargame99 New Member

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    Too rich for my blood given the length of the route. Tribute to Rivet Games for their good work and in no way diminishes their efforts. I may purchase if the route goes on sale eventually.
     
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  34. JohnnyK98

    JohnnyK98 Well-Known Member

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    ThE pRiCe Is ToO cHeAp!
     
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  35. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Well guess what - IOW costs 22,99 in €, preordering it applies 10% discount. At 20,69€ I am absolutely happy with the price.
    Source - Steam
     
  36. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Sadly such discount only applies to PC. DTG seem to have forgotten that they want Console and PC to be equal. Their selective memory only seems to apply when it's an excuse not to develop a feature...
     
  37. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I like the price. As a rule, I only try to buy German and American DLCs, but it's tempting :|
     
  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I may be wrong but I am sure that DTG can't offer pre-order discounts on X-Box and Playstation.
     
  39. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    They managed it for the TSW2 release. Perhaps they should consider being fair to all, and not offering it across the board?

    But enough games manage preorder discounts to make me think this is DTG specific
     
  40. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't see why they would offer it for one platform and not others, doesn't make sense.
     
  41. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I believe neither the PlayStation nor Xbox stores allow a discount to be applied before the product releases. It's not DTG's fault in this instance.
     
  42. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    That is what I thought, thanks.
     
  43. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Having looked on the Xbox store earlier, there's a number of games up for preorder with preorder discounts, so not sure that is correct.
     
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  44. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Looking on the xbox store page, there are some games which are listed as pre-order and are offering a discount.

    The same applies in the playstation store, so it appears it is possible.
     
  45. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know how much of a say Rivet have in any discounts for consoles but I do know that there aren’t normally pre-order discounts for console players on DTG DLC, it’s always been just for PC. I don’t know why that has always been the case or if it will continue.
     
  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am sure DTG said they couldn't do it, maybe it is some contractual arrangement. It wouldn't make sense for them to give discounts on one platform and not another, especially if they have many more console players.

    It does rather fly in the face of the allegations that TSW2 is biased towards consoles and that is the market DTG are aiming at.
     
  47. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    DTG said the older TSW stuff was incompatible with TSW2 until it wasn't. So as you say, it's most likely DTG's choice or some contractual agreement rather than it can't be done.
     
  48. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Let’s see what happens on 15 October. They discounted TSW 2 if it was purchased within X number of days so maybe they’ll do the same for IoW and maybe future DLC too. It would be a bit unfair to favour one platform with a discount over another, but let’s give them the benefit of the doubt first.
     
  49. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    With regards to the discount for Steam pre orders, all platforms have different discounts throughout the year, and there will be occasions when console users receive a discount and PC users don't. There are no plans as yet to offer console a discount, however that doesn't mean there never will be.
     
  50. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Off the top of my head, I can only remember two pre-order discounts for console users, one being TSW2 and the other was Northern Trans Pennine. It would be nice to have a pre-order discount every time a new dlc comes out as PC users get this as a little "thank you" for pre-ordering yet console users get's another two words which also ends in you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020
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