I think variety was mentioned in the roadmap, so I don't think they'll make the 86 as you'd be doing more or less the same thing as the 87.
The class 86 was an integral part of the WCML though, it would be strange not to have one on the route. Class 87's I would wager were fairly rare on freight trains, most of the freightliner services would have been class 86 or the earlier AC electrics. Class 87's would have been rare on cross country diagrams I would imagine too. They were nicknamed the Electric Scots as they were designed for the Anglo-Scottish expresses after the wires had reached Glasgow circa 1974. The pretty much dominated those services even after the class 90's were introduced.
This is how I remember the 86s , not the greatest livery , actually looks a bit like the white stripe livery on the 31s. I used to think the push-pull setup was a bit dangerous, it seemed weird to have a coach leading a 100mph train. I didn't take any notice of them, as I prefer the steam era.
I snapped this livery on a 1982 trip to Willesden Electric depot which was quite a "novelty" More 'leccy stuff from around the country that year:
The other thing about the 86, thinking commercially, is the very high number of liveries and uses it has had as well. There would be an option for new livery packs in the future.
If this dlc is an 86. The time period would be BR blue, IC exec, but for a bit of interest add a unique loco in NSE livery that spawns in 5% of the time?
They did work quite a few freight duties on the WCML, either Solo, or paired with another 87 or 86/0, 86/3, 86/4 or 86/6 due to the jumper cables needed. Presumably once TDM was fitted, 86/1s and 86/2s were also capable of working in Multiple with an 87 87019 Preston on car wagons Jan 87 https://flic.kr/p/mthBLv 87029 Carlisle on tanks May 89 https://flic.kr/p/KgBQry 86404 + 87019 Lancaster on Steel Coils Jan 89 https://flic.kr/p/2hRhQEW 87026 Carpenders Park on Freightliner April 90 https://flic.kr/p/2iRM8cV 87002 + 86415 Carlisle on Tanks Aug 86 https://flic.kr/p/2e7PtH1 86418 + 87026 Lancaster on Steel Coils Feb 89 https://flic.kr/p/2nfFHyR 87003 Mossend on Speedlink Jun 85 https://flic.kr/p/nkXhnn 87xxx Tamworth on Freightliner May 74 https://flic.kr/p/WoKyNk 87006 Preston on flats July 85 https://flic.kr/p/2hLaP98 86635 + 87003 Preston on Steel Coils April 90 https://flic.kr/p/2n2KaHn 86427 + 87030 Carlisle on box wagons May 89 https://flic.kr/p/KgBPow 87001 Kenton on Box Vans May 80 https://flic.kr/p/ca7mBU 87024 + 8xxxx Carlisle on Hoppers https://flic.kr/p/2bHg5vY 87002 South Kenton on mixed May 88 https://flic.kr/p/dfLwwZ 87022 Bescot on Speedlink March 82 https://flic.kr/p/hgdKqw 87026 Preston on Car Wagons Jan 87 https://flic.kr/p/FN6cSp 87034 Rugby on Freightliner Aug 85 https://flic.kr/p/czjYGQ 86430 + 87031 Lancaster on Steel Coils 89 https://flic.kr/p/hfAM79 87013 + 87006 Carlisle on Steel Coils Aug 86 https://flic.kr/p/dnoMqn 87011 + 87015 Carlisle on Steel Coils Apr 83 https://flic.kr/p/UAxAja
That's interesting thanks. However a WCML route in 1986 wouldn't be true to life with just an 87. So I still hope the JT DLC is either a AL5 or AL6, even if they seem too similar to a 87 for some.
Can't see it being an AL5, most people under 45 don't remember them, AL6 just about hanging in with daily use fairly recently with Freightliner and occasionally charters these days.
To be fair unless they have an active interest in the era, most people under 45 likely have limited knowledge of the existence of 86’s & 87’s. Things like pacers & sprinters you get away with because they survived through 2010. If we get content based on things that the mass of players know about, we probably wouldn’t have much at all.
Class 222 still missing for East Midlands or Class 730 for Birmingham New Street Or and modern Freight Loco
I'll be honest, I hadn't noticed that. My first thought is the 86. It would complement the 87 perfectly and of course it would be wonderful for the creative community as you'd be able to create railtour acts for different routes. With 3 examples still running around it's easy enough to get all the reference material you need and record the sounds. My ideal loco would be a roarer, ideally an 81 or 85, which were still around at the time of JT's routes but I don't think we'll get that. IMO they sounded even better than the 86s and 87s. And then there's the 90. The routes are set before the 90s came into service but I'd be happy to see them in the game and the creative community would have a lot of fun reskinning all the different varieties. EDIT: I forgot about the APT. I'd love to see it, and it fits the timeline but that would a very difficult train to replicate. Still, JT could be up to the task! As for diesels, the 25 is a good shout, a workhorse loco which would be at home on other routes too, including NTP. I'll doubt we'll see any first-gen DMUs but as someone who is getting tired of the 101, another one would be welcome! If I had to pick one the 86 is the one that would complement both of JT's routes the most and be able to run on other routes as well. If I had to present a business case, this is the one I would choose as it would bring in the most sales. Hopefully, if it is the 86, they could look to doing some coaches to go with it as well, like the aircon Mk2 variants or even a MK1 RMB, which are both desperately needed in the sim. I wince every time I see a long distance train in the sim and there's either no brake coach (BSO etc) or a buffet car.
I dont really get why so many railfans are so obsessed only with old stuff... y know, times change, trains get faster, more nimble, more comfy, safer... simpler to use, so the driver can focus even more on the route ahead of him and not be busy handling a hundred levers and things... but thats for a longer debate I believe we had on this forum in some other thread not everybody is obsessed with old trains, some of us folks want to drive modern stuff that we can see and ride as passengers IRL... like I love when I can drive Taurus or 4024 in Austrian content cos it brings back so many nice memories of my exploration of Vienna and surroundings... I am thrilled every time I have a chance to drive sth modern because unless you are a real driver you arent going to get into a real cab most of the time like, when am I going to get a chance to ride Antelope Valley Line trains as passenger with my ...-sucking salary? ... or even those "one stick EMUs" so ok, we get it, you dont like those and prefer the older, more hands-on stuff, but there are also ppl who prefer other stuff and it is not nice to belittle or taunt that, no offense... we all have stuff that we prefer
Whilst I don’t agree with the rather unnecessary digs on either side, I’m not sure your argument holds any weight here. You say not everyone is obsessed with old stuff & that’s fine, but TSW is almost entirely modern. There is virtually no older stuff for people that want it. DTG killed their BR Blue development, they killed steam development. Simtrack are making a loco for BR Green, JT have done literally one DLC for BR Blue, they are now doing another, along with an unconfirmed era loco. If anything the argument should be that not everyone is obsessed with modern stuff because that’s 95% of what we’re getting for TSW now. You talk about the way you feel driving a 4024 etc, but how would you feel about TSW if the role was reversed, almost every DLC was set pre 1990’s & then people comment on your conversations trying to gaslight you into thinking otherwise.
You get all the modern stuff you want from every other developer. And the reason so many people like the old stuff is the diesels make loads of noise and to travel in they feel real and mechanical and you just don’t get that in plastic modern units, I have nothing against a taurus or a few other new locos they just don’t have the same feel to them.
It's exactly the possibility to relive history and to control the old "real machines" instead of fly-by-wire microprocessed handle inputs. And TSW does offer both. You can't have each and every loco, that'd mean infinite dev time (or a lot more 3rd parties onboard. But as a 3rd party, you must know you can't get rich here.) It worked well on TSC, because expectations weren't that high as for a UE4 game. A lot of locos could be done without ever seeing them in real life, by pictures and internet research and scale models. Modders having access to engine sounds because they were either working on the railroad or knew someone who had access, spiced them up later. In TSC, it was often (not always) a matter of "better an approximation than nothing" (except for AP and such), especially for vintage stuff. In TSW, it's rather nothing than not fully realistic, that's the demand here. I have no trouble running the 150 on WCL, there's no bugs in that sense. PIS, services and scenarios are working. Still, will do a side by side comparison with the ArmstrongPowerhouse 150 eventually (already knowing the outcome )
That comment how older stuff has struck a nerve with me. A good percentage of TSW DLC is modern day. If you want modern day then you’re more than catered for. As for not seeing the appeal of older rolling stock, again if you want modern there are studios developing modern day units. Some of us LIKE the older trains and like how they drive. TSW is almost like a heritage railway, we can recreate scenes from the past and be a part of it. Take me for example, I don’t play anything other than UK based routes. I have zero interest in German or American stuff. And that’s okay, TSW caters to different tastes and corners of the market. You can’t get angry when a studio releases an older route and it sells so well that their next DLC is set in the same era (Blackpool Branches) because there is obviously a demand for it. Blackpool was the first BR era DLC since… WCL? And that wasn’t amazing let’s be honest. Since that it was all modern day single handle related stuff. Let us enjoy our hellfire diesels and you can enjoy your modern day electrics.
I think there was one time where DTG were more modern than real life - the 801 was available on KingsX - Peterborough in TSC before it was in service actually.
well, what made me really fall for trains besides this game was the sound of Desiro ML's traction motors, which I believe would fall into the "plastic" EMU category... especially once it gets into almost max speed Taurus has a Hungarian cousin, MAV Start 370, which is almost same loco, but without the musical starting melody, instead with a deep, loud rumble... as for my fav "rumbling" loco, 1144 by OBB might be one of those
I remember after TVL was released back in the days before TSW2, there was much muttering of anger on these forums along the lines of "why are we getting all these old trains". I remember saying that I suspected that in a year of two's time there would be plenty of modern routes and hardly any older routes and those moaning about the old trains, would go quiet. Well that is exactly what has happened. BR classic has been sidelined by DTG since the class 20, steam has been abandoned, so we only have JT to create BR period routes, and who knows if that will continue, I hope it does, otherwise us fans of older traction will have nothing. Virtually everything DTG has produced and the 3rd parties have been modern period routes since TSW2. To complain about one developer making period routes is very disingenuous! I like driving all sorts of trains and don't hold with the mocking of "one handled EMU's" as it is counter-productive, we all like trains however they operate and whatever their period. I enjoy driving class 377's and 710's, but I enjoy driving class 101's and 47's far more.
well, my idea of train acceleration and such was still kinda skewed by memories of old Slovak stock ... and Skoda dostos, while fast and nimble, cant always get kicking in full because of repairs on track etc (tho after upgrade, that got much better)... so when I had my first ride in Desiro ML as passenger, I was shocked how fast it got up to speed so yeah, personal bias ))
I also like German BR 101, especially the expert version, as it strikes a great balance between being more old school (lots of things you got to set up before leaving and to watch out for during operation) and modern (has enough computing, screens, AFB and other stuff that make the life easier when trying to maintain speed etc)
I really bloody hope they don't. We have had enough old stuff taken away in the past few years, with DTG's abolishment of BR Blue and Steam, and have more third parties joining making modern content, so JT is the only hope for many of us to get the content many of us love the most.
I think it would be stupid if they did because they see how well their routes sell so surely they do well off them.
It wouldn't be stupid at all, in fact it would most probably be the total opposite. Their routes, or so far one route, didn't sell well because of the era, it sold well because it is just really really good to the point era doesn't matter. If BR blue sold so well don't you think we would get way more, and the same with steam as well. Reality is most players are not interested in this era, I myself find the era of BR blue rather boring, I just cant relate to it in any sort of way although I definitely do get more enjoyment from driving trains from this era so I can easily see it from both sides...
But given JT are the only ones who make BR routes everyone who wants BR will buy their routes and because of the realism and detail they attract a lot of people who wouldn’t usually buy a BR route.
With me being from East Lancashire and growing up through the 80s, there was no car for us, so we had to either use the bus or train to go anywhere. 104s, 105s and 108s seemed to be the norm for what was coming through Blackburn. Around 86 Our house was having major work done to it so we had to move to a flat which over looked the Blackburn to Manchester line. 142s had started taking over the services, though quite often when we did go to Bolton it was still a 1st Gen unit. I remember when I started seeing Sprinters for the 1st time. We went from Manchester to Holyhead and back on 2 150/1s. Then the 150/2s started showing up. I would get very excited seeing them. In fact I would prefer the newer units over the old stuff. Of course I am now a lot older and I do find myself being drawn towards the older eras. Of course I still like newer stuff, such as 390s etc. but I personally think it is a case of the older you get the more you prefer the stuff you remember. This doesn't just apply to trains. I can't really say I like modern music now. Give me some Depeche Mode, Genisis or even Pink Floyd anyday over Stormzy. But I am hoping if we do get the 86, we get some nice rake of Mk2s to go with it.
I assume you have access to something we don't then, as I am yet to be asked why I bought that route and without actually asking people who bought it the reason for buying it, how on Earth would they know that information, forget yourself. Things aren't as simple as that and it has been said how popular steam were by DTG, just it seems like they botched it so much they found it too hard to develop, I would imagine that something similar may be the case for BR Blue as TVL and NTP are always regarded very highly even though they lack the scenic detail of BPO. The whole BR Blue doesn't sell thing is bullocks in my opinion anyway. Again I am yet to fill in this survey asking for players era preference, so I highly doubt this is the reality, especially when you account for the fact that people tend to look at the past much more favourably than the present. To be clear here I am not against modern trains, I have said many times how much easier and quieter my life is now, but in a simulator with such a wide player base, it is terrible how little variety of era there is. I thank JT for filling a wide open gap in the TSW market and not just producing modern routes with traction that can feel very samey.
Well, if Simtrack Studios are having problems finishing their class 104, maybe let Just Trains help them? Another first-generation DMU at Blackpool would be fun.
Ok... but I know I'm right. The player base goes far beyond the 10 people on this forum. If you want to believe that or not is a different matter, I'm just not going to sit here and argue it.
But…..how? Personally I’d love to more about the data behind how routes are selling, because none of what we’ve been told previously makes no sense when you compare to what’s actually happening. (Other than that Modern stuff is popular, which isn’t being disputed).
