Just Trains Making Wcml Over Shap And Br Class 87

Congratulations on the new arrival.

Very much looking forward to this new arrival on the 21st.

 

One question I have with the class 47 as have yet to play blackpool. Did you just take the class 47 from dovetail then upgrade it. What exactly has changed with it. Are sounds more accurate or is it rebuilt from ground up.

 

If they go historically accurate then no unfortunately as 006 was painted in IC livery by 1986

 

David Beckham waving to the Ladies.

 

That would be lovely

 

That's a very minor bending of time that I could deal with.

 

Maybe concentrating on the line, stations, rolling stock so intensely that the scenery has been given less attention. It does look a bit PS2 era

Must of been great up there before the motorway in steam days. Tranquil between trains.

 

If DTG gave brutally honest answers they'd be burnt at the stake! They would not look good at all.

 

Someone might do it as a game play 12.99 pack or something like that.....

 

Aww, bit of a shame as I was looking forward to even just standing at the bay platform waving the coast train off, thinking (daftly) how it could have been five year old me with my mam and kid brother! Can't have everything, I know.

 

Read it on jt's website for blackpool
https://www.justtrains.net/in-development/tsw-blackpool-preston-ormskirk-route-addon#entry20231031. Improved and new sounds, improved physicsimproved textures, changes to the 3d model, tsw4 features. Basically a ton of work done to improve it

 

Presume this route will have suspension on every loco and coaches

 

I think I've heard that they will. My memory's not the best though.

 

The distant scenery question is a tricky one. When I saw the screenshot Jetwash included in the post I thought “yeah, that does look a bit unrealistic”. Then I saw the photo in the same post and thought “that looks unrealistic too…”

My initial reaction, naturally, was anger. When are Jetwash and fellow modders going to release their mod pack to sort out the appearance of the real world? They’ve had several million years. I think we’ve been very patient. That hill just looks like someone’s chucked a towel over a few rocks. Featureless and lacking in detail, and what looks like completely consistent length grass on hill tops which aren’t farmed - as if someone’s been up there with a lawn-mower. A really poor effort by God/Mother Nature/Big Bang/Other (take your pick) and totally unrealistic.

I do agree that if DTG produced the same thing there’d be a thread of people criticising, but I’d defend them just as I’ll defend JT now. I think the fells in that area are difficult to re-create in a way that looks realistic, because they don’t look realistic themselves.

Leaving that question aside, I think the route looks fantastic, and it’s particularly good to hear the amount of effort JT have been putting into the operational side of things, which tends to be neglected in TSW routes. Going to the trouble to establish what the correct signalling sequence is at each location, then re-creating it, is exactly the sort of thing a route builder should be focussing on in my opinion. It’s critical to the driving of the route - unlike some of the peripherals (working lifts etc) which are the focus of attention on other routes, while the driving itself is unrealistic.

I’m certain this is going to be a great route.

 

You’re totally right. I somehow thought only 37s had that nose design. My bad!

 

Here is a thought. Could this pave the way for a Class 90 Pack to bolt onto this route in the future?

 

Class 90’s did not exist in 1986, the first production versions did not start arriving until 1987. A better DLC (IMHO) more suited to BR Blue era would be a Class 81, 85 or 86 with a rake of Mark II aircon stock.

 

It's all good, I used to make that mistake with 37s and 40s all the time lol

 

People saying if this was Rivet or DTG everyone would be furious at the scenery need to also remember we wouldn't have this level of stock, detail, Timetable, liveries and hard work etc for a Rivet or DTG route.

And then they wouldn't level and be honest and open with us in the same way in the forum thread.

 

Often DTG make comments on a thread along the lines of - this is how it will be on release and don't expect it to change, to manage expectations. And guess what the response generally is?

Also I think you are being a bit dismissive in suggesting that hard work doesn't go into other developers routes.

This route will be my favourite in the sim that is for certain and I certainly appreciate the amount of stock supplied and the breadth of the route.

 

There's an "on the shoulders of giants" argument with all of this. JT - or Rivet or the modders or whoever - couldn't do this if all the bits below it didn't exist. DTG have provided a framework, however imperfect, on which all of this stuff is built. I can see a day where, as more third-party developers come on board, DTG changes at least some of its focus back to improving and building out the core capabilities but, up until now, they've almost single-handedly had to seed the franchise to grow and maintain interest.

 

This is most likely going to be a great route just like Blackpool Branches. Quite an epic scope for a DLC as well, not really seen before in TSW. I haven't been this excited for a route in a while as the old tap-changing locos are one of my favourite types of traction and this is the perfect route to run one on. The sounds being sourced from AP is also a great move. Adding to my excitement are these new screenshots which look great, from the detailing along the tracks to the Class 87 itself. The distant scenery however, did not look good imo. It may be difficult to represent this type of landscape in game, but I think the pattern on the hills is way too obvious and repetitive as seen here:


I hope Just Trains and other developers would try to improve this in future content as it doesn't look in place compared to the rest of TSW's graphics.

 

Post release I would love to see JT knock out a couple of rolling stock packs suitable for their routes such as:
Class 25
Class 47/0
Classes 81-86
Mk2 aircon coaches with Mk1 restaurant/buffet coach

 

Add to that a 108 DMU, GUV parcels vans, Speedlink style Vans and or Cargowaggons (JT did some of these in TSC) throw all that together and it's a very good recreation.

 

I'd add in a 150/1 as well. They were around and most certainly operating in this area in 1986, plus would be useful for other routes right up to present day.

 

Congratulations!

 

Also add Mk2c coaches with Mk2x TSO (T) buffet coach for those cross country services.

 

Not many in 1986 from memory.

 

I think people get too hung up on an exact year. Routes aim to represent an era, and base the timetable on a particular year in order to get a timetable that’s consistent, accurate and representative. If TSW had multiple years for each route, then you could expect 100% accuracy within these years, but as it’s more of a general era, a bit of leeway is allowed for the sake of variety and overall representation. I’m not talking about a Pendolino sharing diagrams with an LMS Patriot, but given that there isn’t going to be a 1984 or 1988 representation of this route, a broader portrait is acceptable.

 

While I'd personally love a 150/1 in game (and even the two prototype 150/0s, I'm not expecting JT to make them. They are working hard with this route and the upcoming Loco release.

 

Indeed such a pattern is actually a consequence of using Lidar data, whereas on TSC it would've been smoother due to DEM. Perhaps the smoothing tool is something to use in future, though having said that, people want the ripples and creases/fidelity that Lidar offers, so it's about trying to find the middle ground. I think, much like TSC it is very difficult to pull off moorland terrain/rolling English hills, where there's no discernable foliage to break up the "dead" fern covered ground, actually harder than mountains perhaps. It's one of those things when, if presented with a blunt screenshot I feel like it's noticed, but when driving through, from the cab at speed you will hopefully see it as passing scenery. We will of course make judgement on this once we see release and gauge people's reactions, however from testing we've seen a lot of good feedback.


Jumping back to an earlier conversation about the Scottish Highlands in this thread, I personally would love to see this in TSW, (1980's Kyle Line...or WHL/Oban?) but I do wonder how well the ground would translate into TSW itself. At least in this route we only have to work around such scenery for about 5 miles, but in a route like that you'd be trying to do it for the full line!

 

These routes (BPO and WCML P-C) of course are part of a wider rolling stock plan, the first part of this will soon be announced.

 

Hearing about a rolling stock plan is actually great news, that means thought is put into variety and what is most appropriate, and it means that the BR Blue stock pool will just keep growing! Plus it means that maybe my dream of getting Mk 1 sleepers in this game isn't 100% unrealistic!

 

An interesting thought Mark. I remember many years ago doing my first route for MSTS which was Stranraer to Ayr, laying the dun coloured texture tiles and thinking this is going to look bare, but that really how it is crossing moorland. Maybe a bit of heather and gorse straggling on the ground but you can't make more of what is a fairly unique UK look more than it is. I later had the same conceptual crisis on my Far North route, miles and miles of open barren scenery north of Helmsdale all the way to Scotscalder but at the end of the day I just rolled with it.

 

This is just a thought, or question as I don't know how the route " scenery" is created.

Is it possible to take photos of real locations, such as the Lune gorge, hills etc , and then didgatis the photos int to the sim route?. I'm guessing that happens perhaps with stations.

Driving along the Peak Forest route earlier, the distant hills look ok on this route.

 

I think that’s the most tantalising thing anyone’s ever said…

 

Excellent news, will keep eyes on developments

 

WOOO Class 47 with snowploughs!

 

That's completely fair. I don't mean that the other developers don't work hard. I know that a lot of work goes into routes. Just with the content and detail and breadth that JT put into their work I feel like they do more and just go the extra mile with it and you can see that in my personal opinion

 

Something random I have wanted for ages now, is 47s with snow ploughs fitted - so hearing that is great news!!

 

I said it a good dozen or so pages back (but it got buried by news) but I honestly believe that the "loco" that is coming as separate DLC would be an 86 with Mk2 Aircons, they were the bread and butter of the WCML for many years and far more common than Mk3s too.

I am really excited for this route and the future rolling stock that Mark has hinted at, my only gripe is the 4 week wait (as I'm off work for 3 weeks on leave and it releases just as I go back to work - and on lates/nights to boot so I can't even play it when I get home).

 

Looks awesome i will be buying and pre ordering if you can

 

Be fairly quiet apart from Crianlarich. Oban , Kyle shut moves...

 

Could you imagine spawning at Rannoch and waiting five hours before the next train.

 

Why did I suddenly think of this?


Warning: Naughty words and deeds depicted

 

Would be a shame if these routes are not done because of traffic levels. All are iconic and offer driving challenges as well as fantastic scenery. I do wonder what JT will plan for the next route mind. Given that they appear to be finally addressing the shortcomings in rolling stock since DTG abandoned BR era routes and rolling stock.

 

What you guys have produced is absolutely stunning, thank you for your collective hard work, sincerely.
The Futurama meme doesn’t really work here, because I don’t want them to shut up and stop posting gorgeous screenshots - they can however take my money!

 

I have been playing TSW since the start and I have never seen people this excited for a route ever.. Just goes to show how much effort Just Trains put into their TSW routes.

 

Neither have I, but I think it’s because it’s very clear that it’s a passion project, and they definitely have a “by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts” mentality, which is really refreshing.

 

I think the only thing which could spoil this is DTG continuing to drop the ball with the core. As we have just seen this evening with the latest patch apparently bringing in a load of new bugs even making some trains unusable. They (DTG) need to get a grip so as not to let down the committed third party developers.