Just Trains Making Wcml Over Shap And Br Class 87

two different companies. The Freightliner we will get getting with Over Shap I believe was part of BR's sectorisation days where as the Freightliner we have today is it's own company and has nothing to do with the BR one

 

Unfortunately the Class 31 we have in game was from an era before DTG made things future-proof so there's very little that can be done with it, it would need serious work doing to it just to make it Creators Club compatible for a start. Matt P has said it is possible, but unlikely.

 

a BR Green Diesels pack would be a god send for Peak Forest. I don't just mean a livery change - I mean a full overhaul of everything that is in need of one

 

one user on Reddit has it was from the TSW facebook account

 

It was posted on there a few hours ago, DTG are pushing this WCML route quite hard.

 

I hope this is a timetabled service and not Free Roam

 

they know it'll be their most popular route until Just Train's next masterpiece

 

That's a shame because I actually love the 31 it's such a great loco definitely one of my favourites to drive

 

To be fair, duplicates of any train are not good. Luckily the new 101 is a clear upgrade, but the ECW and SEHS 66s were when they came out too.

Too bad the models for both are inaccurate.

My main thought with JT routes in TSW is "if only TSW wasn't so ugly". The scenery would look so much better if the lighting in the game was more realistic, and then all of the other glaring flaws with TSW really bring down what JT's done. If this was a Train Simulator route it would probably be thought of as one of the best ever routes for the game. Luckily the WCMLoS we have in TS is quite decent so we're not exactly missing out, and the AP 86 and 87 will probably be quite a bit better than the JT one, as with the 142 (not to discredit JT's work, to be clear).

Modern Freightliner is related to BR. It was started in the 60s as a part of BR and was spun-off during privatisation. The early Freightliner livery was the red arrow (?) livery based on the one from the containers included in this route.

Similarly, EWS was effectively a merger of Transrail, Mainline, Loadhaul, RES and eventually Railfreight Distribution. In fact EWS was just a renamed Transrail Freight, at least according to Wikipedia. If you look far enough there are plenty of BR divisions still running in some form. My Ferry Link was an immediate descendent of SeaFrance, which was formed over a number of years out of Sealink and its weird post-privatisation history. My Ferry Link's three (very nice) ships were owned by EuroTunnel and I believe still, are even though they are now operated by DFDS. One of them is the Al Andalus Express, formerly Nord-Pas-de-Calais, an SNCF train ferr which shipped some of the Class 373s to Britain.

 

Thanks for copying and pasting the patch notes of which i have already read(!)... Obviously the updates are nice, really wouldn't consider them significant though, but no matter it doesn't change the fact that it's not adding anything new to the sim. Hundreds of varieties to pick from for First Generation DMU's but they can only seem to hyperfixate on a BR Blue-Grey Class 101 with no HI Headlight. I encourage anyone to take a screenshot of all 5 variations of Class 101 together and tell me they are truly all that different.

 

At a visual level they will probably all be similar (although I expect the JT one will have fixed roof lights). However, the JT one will likely be significantly nicer to drive and therefore be preferable to drive on all routes that the 101 is on.

That said I agree that we need more first generation DMUS in TSW. TS has quite a few but none of them have had substantial upgrades yet bar the decent but dated AP sound pack.

 

There is no alternative really as they already developed the 87 for this route, so the only alternative would be a unit with no modifications or updates layering in from other routes.

 

Jt can't create like multiple brand new rolling stock. That would be a huge amount of work for them on top of what they are doing already. Prices would also end up increasing even more to compensate. Even an update is a lot of work. You have to try it yourself to know what happens

 

The aircraft takeoff and land is easier to accomplish, than getting into the interior and cab of a Pacer?

 

FSX or MSFS2020?

 

MSFS2020

 

oh ok my bad

 

They’ve just dropped a preview video for this. Safe to say it looks nuts, in a good way.

 

I assume you mean this video?
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/15GJxXkr2M/

 

That’s the one!

 

Nice clip but why oh why don't they let us hear the actual train sounds.

 

Yes, dying to hear the 87 howl and the mk3 whimper!

 

I didn't see any mention of the class 40, I hope they feature in the timetable, I love it when they show up at Preston. The layer can be turned off of course if people prefer not to see them. That whistling was the sound of my childhood, always one lurking at Manchester Victoria. It was sad when they were taken out of service.

 

I’m pretty sure they’ve been shown in preview screenshots from the route, so presume they’re in.

 

If you look behind the 31 at Wapping sidings in the latest trailer you can see a 40!

 

You mean the wipers appearing to default to this position? If so, yeah it really annoys me, like the one on the Azuma.

 

This irritates me. JT would probably still be praised even if they produced a route similar to WCL.

 

Yep, that! I get it's not a dealbreaker, but the wipers meeting in the middle is part of the front profile of the 87.

 

They wouldnt, I had a right pop at the JT Kyle route when it came out in TSC, if the issues mentioned ruined the route for many people then criticism would follow. Rivet get negative comments because its pretty obvious they dont even try to get near the same level of detail JT do.

 

Probably not tbh.. we are clearly really excited for this route but then again, DC fans were really excited for Joker 2 and that film flopped in the box office

 

I beg to differ. There's been some mention of the hills on WCMLOS not being right, yet we haven't had the many threads we'd have had about it if it was a Rivet route. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

I noticed it straight away, but didn't dare mention it after I got chastised for daring to criticise the AP Class 142 for the same reason (wiper sits too low, and incorrect interiors for some liveries - and I don't mean wrong seat patterns, I mean wrong seats full stop) and sticking with the old Waggonz model.

Edit to demonstrate my point:

Northern Spirit/Arriva Trains Northern refurbished interior:

 

Oh please, If Rivet were doing this we'd get Preston to Lancaster with a bare minimum service and one form of traction. JT have worked on this route for at least a year and have done wonders. Any criticisms so far are based on minor issues that can be resolved. People going on about hills in the distance, let's not forget Rivet forgot to include Edinburgh Airport on Fife Circle, and even layered the route to Glasgow.

 

This!

 

Slightly OT but while it captures the spirit of the line, yes parts are pretty dire. Some of the trackwork is downright shonky often little or no straight transition into an opposite curve and just over an hour into testing a steam hauled scenario, find the passenger pickup at Achnashellach doesn't work!

So yes we are all looking forward to WCMLOS but JT should not be immune to constructive criticism, which I was certainly not afraid to offer for BPO - the propensity of the route to crash on release until they fixed something (never said what) in the Preston area and the 142 TL11 sounds which to me, even now, do not come across exactly as I recall these things sounding at the time.

 

It's weird, isn't it?

Over on JT's FB page, they've been sharing screenshots for a while and the wipers are in the correct default position in majority of the shots.
So it's odd that suddenly for this new preview video they are wrong.

 

I'm not sure why people are complaining that JT aren't getting enough criticism. I haven't noticed anyone shooting down attempts at giving feedback. As far as the hills are concerned, I really don't think they can be improved much because of the very nature of the hills themselves.

It's worth pointing out that in your screenshot the Waggonz model also has the incorrect seats.

 

Awful film lol.

 

While that's true, and it's something that bugs me about that one too, they are at least high-back seats, it sells it enough as it goes past you - bench seats don't come up to the sill so it just looks really wrong to someone who grew up with them. I would've mostly forgiven AP on that front if they'd put the Chapman seats in like Waggonz did.

Probably due to them recycling first gen DMU sounds IIRC. Mind, the hydraulic version doesn't behave much like a diesel-hydraulic and as such results in some interesting sound glitches.

 

Looking lovely and still very much looking forward to the 21st. Would also love to say it sounds lovely, though any sound I wanted to hear were drowned out by the TSW5 music, which the more I hear the more I am disliking it. The little piece of music at the end were much nicer.

 

"Some mention of hills" barely matches some of the criticism that Rivet have had, timetables devoid of whole service patterns, building routes and leaving out whole areas of scenery, concentrating on gimmicks instead of train related development, not providing fixes or patches despite repeated requests, borking trains to the point that they are almost unusable, making Cornwall look like a cross between a German forest and a heavy artillery test site to name but a few. Thats why there is many threads.

 

I hate the TSW5 theme.. why does a train Simulator need a theme song?

 

All developers add ons will all naturally come with some small bugs, and that is to be expected no matter how big or small the development company is...

But to compare JTs TSW content to Rivet? Really? Come on...

JTs first release for TSW set a standard to how all add ons for TSW should be. Were there a few minor bugs? Most likely, but they are no where near the scale of the bugs in Rivets add ons, or how awful Rivets products are. I can honestly say I've never really had any issues with Blackpool Branches... The timetable was true to life and full. The Rolling stock had time spent on it, and existing locomotives were modified and upgraded to a superb standard. The scenery is absolutely lovely. It's a really immersive route that really gives a feel of a working railway...

Rivet on the other hand... Shocking timetables, shocking scenary, hardly any post release updates, poorly developed rolling stock in terms of sounds and physics, lack of AI, poor lighting... Just really awful altogether. So to even compare the two developers is silly. It's like comparing a Daewoo car to a Volvo car... There is a valid reason why the community are so vocal and negative about their products. It comes from well founded reasons...

There will be a few minor bugs, but that's the natural order of things in any video game or simulator. But it's the scale of them, and how they are solved. JT set a superb standard with their 1st entry which put every other developer to shame. Could Rivet say the same? Nope.

I am super excited for WCMLOS to be released, it looks nothing short of a masterpiece and I can see, just from the small snippets we have been teased it's going to be utterly superb and it's quite visible how much work has gone into it from the rolling stock to the route itself.

 

My point still stands, a small scenery error on a Rivet route would get a lot more criticism, and everyone will that and nothing else.

JT will probably slip up at some point, they're not immune to error.

 

But isn’t that the point? People will generally accept the odd small issue in a generally good quality product. Nothing's perfect, and people understand that. They’ll point out the issue, but move on and enjoy the product.

But when the product has multiple significant issues, they will react much more negatively and emphasise the issues strongly.

It seems to be being perceived as some sort of irrational bias in favour of JT and against Rivet. It isn’t. It’s simply a reflection of the relative overall quality of the products they produce.

 

When Skyhook released Midland Mainline it's fair to say they had a fair amount of criticism with how it looked, the bare bones timetable, the physics of the 158 and the HST. But they worked hard for a year, adding things, taking things way that were causing crashes, reworking things etc etc to the point that many now consider MML a favourite route.

JT released Blackpool Branches last year, we got the 142, we got a reworked 47 variant with Headlight and several liveries, new versions of the 08, new versions of carriages and an incredible timetable, sure there were a few issues regarding crashes or things not working as they should and JT worked on it, they had constant communication, to the point that the majority have been resolved. They are now days away from launching one of the biggest DLCs in TSW with the first UK electric locomotive and an extensive timetable, so far the only gripes seem to be about hills in the distance and wipers not being accurate, ok I'm not a computer programmer but they seem to be fixable and probably will be, people are excited for this route and others just seem to be wanting to pee on their excitement "Well actually, the seats aren't fully accurate for that period". Why? Let people be excited, if it is a disaster upon launch feel free to really have a go, but you can guarantee JT will work hard on any post launch fixes.

Rivet don't, you'll probably get one post release update, two if you're really lucky and that's it. That's why they get no end of criticism, because DLCs broken when released are still broken now and they are never held accountable by DTG, hell Skyhook have had to rework the timetable for Edinburgh-Glasgow with their 158 release and look like they are doing the same with Fife Circle.

 

On Fife Circle, there is a scenario where you're driving a 170 with a load of tourists and stopping off in photo spots for a minute or two, one of the stops has you stop by a road featuring a well known Statue....except Rivet forgot to add the statue. That's why Rivet get criticised over and over.

 

This route will be my only blind day purchaise since the expert 101. Wipers not correct and distant scenery (which is diffucult if the field and the areas in realiy are entirely green!)

Id say if its the only "inacuracies" so far, jt did a very good job.

Please dont bring Rivet inside this discussion, this thread is about extra mile and proof, that DTG also just did the bare minimum about liveries of their released trains.

Of course there will be bugs with this release, but looking at the entire package what the player gets, its the kind of experience i was looking forward.

(Too many times i was just annoyed by the minimalistic approach, excuses from devs in their tsw dlcs. Havent bought fife circle now, ill get to that when its 80% sale)

 

If you watched the TrainSim TV Live Streams it was discussed by Tom and Mark from JT and Mark talked through how they have tried to create distant hills/mountains as accurate as possible, but keeping within the current specs needed for the route to work on console and pc platforms without pop-in and other core game related shortfalls.

 

Fairly sure there was a link to a picture which showed the moors transitioned to the cultivated area fairly abruptly with a stone wall separating them, though there was also the Google Earth view showing otherwise. As stated, JT did explain the limitations of the terrain painting features of the TSW editor and it still looks far better than the tree laden moonscape of WCL! Almost certain the distant hills will look better in TSW than on the TSC route, where the nature of the beast is anything beyond 3 or 4 km just looks a flat green/grey colour.